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jeremyb1
07-29-2003, 11:00 PM
obviously we've made quite a few trades over the last month or so. i'm curious if anyone else feels any apprehension about kenny making so many moves for veterans. in pretty much every case, i like the players we acquired and we didn't give up an obscene amount although i'm dissapointed to lose two of our top prospects in ring and webster.

i feel like kenny has become veteran crazed with a lot of these moves. sometimes it feels as though he's not necessarily concerned if the players we're obtaining are better than the players they're replacing but merely whether they have more experience. this was certainly a pitfall before when adding d wells, ritchie, clayton, lofton, etc. none of these players performed particularly well before we acquired them but since they were decent to slightly above average were more of a known commodity than they pitchers they were replacing, kenny wanted them on the team. in most cases these players failed miserably.

alomar has performed very well for the most part and everett appeared to be a sizable upgrade coming in so i'm not referring to these two players as unneccessary pieces but the intense desire to add players largely because they're veterans is present here in my opinion. its not the websters and the rings i worry the most about losing, its guys like jimenez and glover that are by no means spectacular but solid players. it terrifies me to think about how kenny is going to try to replace our middle infield and half our bullpen next season while dealing with big raises to maggs and paully and trying to resign colon. the easiest way to fill those holes is internally but we're dealing many of the in house options we have that while they weren't spectacular, they wouldn't have killed us either.

MHOUSE
07-29-2003, 11:12 PM
I like Alomar a lot. It's nice to have Everett's LH bat and he plays center ok. I like dumping Jimenez. Schoenweis should be a good addition to the BP. I just hope our Minor League system will be ok.

doublem23
07-29-2003, 11:15 PM
Alomar has been playing pretty well, so I have no reserves about letting Ring go. As for Webster, oh well... Sometimes **** happens. We're pretty OF-heavy in the minors so you may as well use your strengths.

Lip Man 1
07-29-2003, 11:27 PM
"The only thing rookies do is get managers fired"- Casey Stengel

Screw the "glorious future..." win NOW (or if you can't win, at least go down trying with your best...)

Lip

A.T. Money
07-29-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
"The only thing rookies do is get managers fired"- Casey Stengel

Screw the "glorious future..." win NOW (or if you can't win, at least go down trying with your best...)

Lip

Much like my signature...

WhiteSox = Life
07-29-2003, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
Much like my signature...

"The Sox won't win again until Ribby and Rhubarb come back."

:D:

I agree, though. You can't go for it all every year... Well, you can, but the Sox surely haven't. So, when a chance rolls around, give it your all and do almost anything you can to give the team the best chance to win a championship.

In essence, as always:

Go, White Sox!

gogosoxgogo
07-29-2003, 11:44 PM
oh come on.

Alomar or Jimenez - hmmm

Everret or Rowand/Rios/Harris - hmmm

Schoeneweis or Glover - This one can be debated, but I'll take Schoeneweis.

jeremy, we've been waiting for the future for 80-something years now. Enough, let's go win one.

VeeckAsInWreck
07-29-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo

jeremy, we've been waiting for the future for 80-something years now. Enough, let's go win one.

Hell yeah gogosoxgogo!

South Siders haven't witnessed a World Series since this man owned the team!
:veeck

jeremyb1
07-29-2003, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
oh come on.

Alomar or Jimenez - hmmm

Everret or Rowand/Rios/Harris - hmmm

Schoeneweis or Glover - This one can be debated, but I'll take Schoeneweis.

jeremy, we've been waiting for the future for 80-something years now. Enough, let's go win one.

again though, i'm not specifically criticizing the alomar and everett deals. if given the option of having made those deals or standing pat i'd absolutely make those deals. in spite of that, i'm simply uneasy about some of the sentiments behind some of our moves. again, it wasn't an alomar vs. jimenez decision, it was harris vs. jimenez and i still feel like glover was a good option in the pen. he'd pitched well lately so manuel might've been inclined to use him more often and if not, kenny could say "jerry, i think glover is one of our stronger relievers in the pen if he's used frequently for short stints, how do you feel about trying that out?"

jeremyb1
07-29-2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
[B]Screw the "glorious future..." win NOW (or if you can't win, at least go down trying with your best...)

see though, i'm not talking about lessening our chances of winning now for a chance to win in the future, i'm just talking about keeping the future in mind. a deal such as shoenweis for glover doesn't allow us to win the world series this season. any positive effect from this deal is going to be pretty minimal and we're trading a solid reliever we could have for cheap next season. i don't have any problem acquiring alomar but if you do acquire alomar, have a contingency plan for the future. carrying jimenez over harris as the 25th man on the roster so we have an option at second should we need it next season is not sacrificing our chances of winning this season.

i'm not talking about in any way decreasing our chances of winning this season, i'm simply talking about keeping in mind the fact that we're still three games out of first, the playoffs are in many ways a crap shoot, and we do still have to play next season so why not simply keep around options for next season if at all possible?

LASOXFAN
07-30-2003, 12:43 AM
Sign the ghost of Babe Ruth if you like, with Manuel calling the shots in October the Sox are going to have to come up with some miracles to win it all. Can you see him matching wits with Torre late in a game, the crowd in Yankee Stadium on their feet as JM goes to the mound to pull Loiza with Jeter at the plate, runners on 2nd and 3rd and two out, Sox up 2-1 in the bottom of the 8th, a chance to steal a game in Yankee Stadium...?

McCarver: "And he's going to bring in Koch...Wow. Don't see how that's an improvement."

DOH!

That's when I pull an Elvis and empty a pistol into my Sony big screen.

pudge
07-30-2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
see though, i'm not talking about lessening our chances of winning now for a chance to win in the future, i'm just talking about keeping the future in mind. a deal such as shoenweis for glover doesn't allow us to win the world series this season. any positive effect from this deal is going to be pretty minimal and we're trading a solid reliever we could have for cheap next season. i don't have any problem acquiring alomar but if you do acquire alomar, have a contingency plan for the future. carrying jimenez over harris as the 25th man on the roster so we have an option at second should we need it next season is not sacrificing our chances of winning this season.

i'm not talking about in any way decreasing our chances of winning this season, i'm simply talking about keeping in mind the fact that we're still three games out of first, the playoffs are in many ways a crap shoot, and we do still have to play next season so why not simply keep around options for next season if at all possible?

I get what you're saying, and I guess it's a money thing. KW gave up good prospects so he could have Alomar and Everett for free. So now, KW and JR will either be remembered as heros, or cheap bastards who raided our minor league system. Although our system is still pretty dang healthy compared to many teams.

WhiteSox = Life
07-30-2003, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
Sign the ghost of Babe Ruth if you like, with Manuel calling the shots in October the Sox are going to have to come up with some miracles to win it all. Can you see him matching wits with Torre late in a game, the crowd in Yankee Stadium on their feet as JM goes to the mound to pull Loiza with Jeter at the plate, runners on 2nd and 3rd and two out, Sox up 2-1 in the bottom of the 8th, a chance to steal a game in Yankee Stadium...?

McCarver: "And he's going to bring in Koch...Wow. Don't see how that's an improvement."

DOH!

That's when I pull an Elvis and empty a pistol into my Sony big screen.

Very well done. Only one word to describe this: Brilliant.

gosox41
07-30-2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
I like Alomar a lot. It's nice to have Everett's LH bat and he plays center ok. I like dumping Jimenez. Schoenweis should be a good addition to the BP. I just hope our Minor League system will be ok.

Schoeneweis does nothing for me. He is grat against lefties, but isn't that what Wunsch is for? Rgihties are hitting .324 against them. Who besides Marte and Gordon do you trust to get righties out. Considering most hitters bat righty, it makes me question this even more.

Bob

hold2dibber
07-30-2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
obviously we've made quite a few trades over the last month or so. i'm curious if anyone else feels any apprehension about kenny making so many moves for veterans. in pretty much every case, i like the players we acquired and we didn't give up an obscene amount although i'm dissapointed to lose two of our top prospects in ring and webster.

i feel like kenny has become veteran crazed with a lot of these moves. sometimes it feels as though he's not necessarily concerned if the players we're obtaining are better than the players they're replacing but merely whether they have more experience. this was certainly a pitfall before when adding d wells, ritchie, clayton, lofton, etc. none of these players performed particularly well before we acquired them but since they were decent to slightly above average were more of a known commodity than they pitchers they were replacing, kenny wanted them on the team. in most cases these players failed miserably.

alomar has performed very well for the most part and everett appeared to be a sizable upgrade coming in so i'm not referring to these two players as unneccessary pieces but the intense desire to add players largely because they're veterans is present here in my opinion. its not the websters and the rings i worry the most about losing, its guys like jimenez and glover that are by no means spectacular but solid players. it terrifies me to think about how kenny is going to try to replace our middle infield and half our bullpen next season while dealing with big raises to maggs and paully and trying to resign colon. the easiest way to fill those holes is internally but we're dealing many of the in house options we have that while they weren't spectacular, they wouldn't have killed us either.

I agree. Without getting into the specifics of any of the trades, I am still concerned that KW may still have a dangerous preferance for average/marginal "experienced" players. When you don't have a huge payroll to play with, you spend the money you do have on "difference makers" like Big Frank, Maggs and Colon, then you have to plug in productive, cheap players around them (guys like Gordon, Graffy, etc.). I just hope that KW doesn't lose sight of that.

Gumshoe
07-30-2003, 10:31 AM
South Siders haven't witnessed a World Series since this man owned the team!
:veeck [/B][/QUOTE]

Actually, Veeck bought the team that year and then allowed all the young players to be traded away for power hitter which did nothing but send the Sox back into oblivion for a while. Veeck was a schmuck, just like the history of Sox owners...

Gumshoe