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View Full Version : Gammons Says the Sox are Seeking Pitching


hold2dibber
07-28-2003, 12:12 PM
According to Boston Gammons (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1586328), KW is working hard to get a 5th starter, with Kelvim Escobar and Livan Hernandez as possibilities. Either would be an upgrade over Wright/Porzio, but Hernandez is signed for $6 million through next year, so I would prefer Escobar.

hold2dibber
07-28-2003, 12:24 PM
Ken Rosenthal of TSN (http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/ken_rosenthal/20030727.html) says the Sox are in the hunt for Suppan.

delben91
07-28-2003, 12:27 PM
Really makes you think that contrary to Manuel's comments, that KW is searching hard for a way to bring another arm to the Sox.

:jerry
"Strange, I'm always keenly aware of what's going on around me...zzzzzz"

SoxFanDan
07-28-2003, 12:29 PM
the less jerry knows the less he can screw up

Tragg
07-28-2003, 12:32 PM
I certainly hope we don't give up much for a 5th starter like suppan (or any other 5th starter). Does he have any bullpen experience? That's where we'll really need him.

Lip Man 1
07-28-2003, 12:37 PM
"We need another pitcher, one way or the other, whether it's a starter or another arm for the bullpen, to win a pennant you have to feel really good about your pitching, and I don't know if we can say that right now.

Frank Thomas to the Daily Southtown.

and I loved that one scouts comments about the Sox pitching in the Rosenthal column.

Lip

CHISOXFAN13
07-28-2003, 12:39 PM
Assuming we let Colon go at the end of the season, I'm all for acquiring Livan Hernandez. He's a guy with a lot of playoff experience and a contract (6 mill) for next season. The money we save on Colon would pay for him and Loaiza.

doublem23
07-28-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

and I loved that one scouts comments about the Sox pitching in the Rosenthal column.


Personally I don't see what's so Earth-shattering about Mike Porzio not being the answer, but whatever.

DirtySouthsider
07-28-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Assuming we let Colon go at the end of the season, I'm all for acquiring Livan Hernandez. He's a guy with a lot of playoff experience and a contract (6 mill) for next season. The money we save on Colon would pay for him and Loaiza.


I agree 100% with that comment! Of course I would perfer to re-sign Colon.....but if not....then this trade is the way to go.

jabrch
07-28-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Assuming we let Colon go at the end of the season, I'm all for acquiring Livan Hernandez. He's a guy with a lot of playoff experience and a contract (6 mill) for next season. The money we save on Colon would pay for him and Loaiza.


Why do you want to let Bartolo go in the offseason? I like his stuff. He goes deep into his starts and he gives the team a chance. He averages 7 IP per start and if you take out a few of his shellings, his numbers are even better.

Steve Bartman
07-28-2003, 12:48 PM
As much as I would like having another starter, we need another arm in the pen. Right now we only have 3 semi-reliable arms in the pen. I know the Angles are shopping Scott Schoeneweis. He has a 3.96 ERA and of course world series expierence.

CHISOXFAN13
07-28-2003, 12:48 PM
I never said I wanted to let him go, but I'm being realistic. We are not going to pay him more than what he's making now, so getting Hernandez would be an alternative.

I'm sure Boston and the Mets will be sailvating to get Colon in the offseason.

doublem23
07-28-2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Why do you want to let Bartolo go in the offseason? I like his stuff. He goes deep into his starts and he gives the team a chance. He averages 7 IP per start and if you take out a few of his shellings, his numbers are even better.

No one around here wants to let Bartolo go (that I'm aware of) other than the guy who signs his hefty paychecks.

:reinsy
Why is everyone looking at me?

A.T. Money
07-28-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
I certainly hope we don't give up much for a 5th starter like suppan (or any other 5th starter). Does he have any bullpen experience? That's where we'll really need him.

I don't care what we give up. When you win a world series once every 90 years, you take it when you can. Screw the future. The future hasn't worked in 85 years!

SoxFanDan
07-28-2003, 01:00 PM
i agree with you. i believe the future is way overrated. Each team has hundreds of potential great pitchers and position players. White Sox fans i believe in this team.

MisterB
07-28-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Assuming we let Colon go at the end of the season, I'm all for acquiring Livan Hernandez. He's a guy with a lot of playoff experience and a contract (6 mill) for next season. The money we save on Colon would pay for him and Loaiza.

After seeing Tubby Hernandez up close for the last few years there's no way in hell I would want him on the Sox. The guy's a headcase and even though he was on a contending team, he didn't give a damn and seemed to just half-ass it all the time. He isn't worth $6M and he's no replacement for Colon.

Tragg
07-28-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
I don't care what we give up. When you win a world series once every 90 years, you take it when you can. Screw the future. The future hasn't worked in 85 years!

Fine, then let's make sure we win it. The only help 5th starters bring is out of the pen. This team won't win the WS without another bat. Who do we have that can pinch hit right now - Daubach, that's it.

CHISOXFAN13
07-28-2003, 01:08 PM
You can blast me if you want, but No. 33 has been pretty darn solid at the plate recently.

Tragg
07-28-2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Assuming we let Colon go at the end of the season, I'm all for acquiring Livan Hernandez. He's a guy with a lot of playoff experience and a contract (6 mill) for next season. The money we save on Colon would pay for him and Loaiza.

Hernandez is the national league's Jeff Weaver.
What is Colon's salary now?

Gumshoe
07-28-2003, 03:22 PM
WEAVER is much better. Livan sucked all last year and he sucked in the playoffs. Plus, he's an NL guy. I definitely DON'T want an NL guy pitching for us.

Gumshoe

ScottyTheSoxFan
07-28-2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
WEAVER is much better. Livan sucked all last year and he sucked in the playoffs. Plus, he's an NL guy. I definitely DON'T want an NL guy pitching for us.

Gumshoe

rumors have the yanks and sox talking weaver for gordon and cotts? are you saying we should trade one of our most valuable relievers and our top pitching prospect for jeff weaver and his 15 million owed over 2 years? i wouldnt.

Gumshoe
07-28-2003, 03:55 PM
wow, that's interesting. While I'm not convinced about Gordon right now, we do need him ... Gordon AND Cotts? Wow, that is steep, unless they are eating Weaver's contract. Without gordon, though, we have almost no semblance of right handed relief. I don't see KW doing it. God, if we had Foulke, we'd be flawless. Everyone is talking about the "now" concept, and "who cares about the future," --- Well then those very people should be PISSED we don't have Keith Foulke !

Gumshoe

hold2dibber
07-28-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
rumors have the yanks and sox talking weaver for gordon and cotts? are you saying we should trade one of our most valuable relievers and our top pitching prospect for jeff weaver and his 15 million owed over 2 years? i wouldnt.

That would be an idiotic trade. The Sox obviously cannot part with Gordon at this time; improving the 5th spot in the rotation while decimating the bullpen doesn't seem to be a great idea to me. Where in God's name did you hear that rumor? I don't think I'd even trade Cotts for Weaver straight up, unless the Yankees were eating virtually ALL of Weaver's salary through '05.

gogosoxgogo
07-28-2003, 04:06 PM
Gordon and Cotts for Weaver!? HELL NO! This better be some crazy rumor. I don't think Kenny is this stupid.

Gumshoe
07-28-2003, 04:16 PM
DO NOT put anything past KW. Especially a "hungry", crazed straightjacket to be KW

Gumshoe

Foulke You
07-28-2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Fine, then let's make sure we win it. The only help 5th starters bring is out of the pen. This team won't win the WS without another bat. Who do we have that can pinch hit right now - Daubach, that's it.

I'm afraid I disagree with your assessment of #5 starters. This team is going to need 5 dependable starters just to win the Central Division. You have to get there first and getting a #5 guy is a big step towards getting there. They only become bullpen guys when you actually MAKE the playoffs.

What happened on Saturday was a perfect example of this team's only, but glaring hole in the rotation. We missed a great chance to gain on KC and the Twinks that day. We scored 6 runs. A dependable #5 starter could have held the D-Rays to less than 6 runs and preserve a White Sox winner. At this point of the season, we need to sweep teams. We can't just be happy with 2 out of 3 against the D-Rays.

hold2dibber
07-28-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
I'm afraid I disagree with your assessment of #5 starters. This team is going to need 5 dependable starters just to win the Central Division. You have to get there first and getting a #5 guy is a big step towards getting there. They only become bullpen guys when you actually MAKE the playoffs.

What happened on Saturday was a perfect example of this team's only, but glaring hole in the rotation. We missed a great chance to gain on KC and the Twinks that day. We scored 6 runs. A dependable #5 starter could have held the D-Rays to less than 6 runs and preserve a White Sox winner. At this point of the season, we need to sweep teams. We can't just be happy with 2 out of 3 against the D-Rays.

I agree completely. I understand that not many teams have very good 5th starters, but don't forget that (1) the Sox are 4 games back - they have ground they have to make up and every advantage will help; and (2) the Sox have a brutal schedule left, so with very few "easy" games left, it would behoove them to have a quality starter take the mound EVERY time, not just 80% of the time.

With that said, another (right handed) arm in the bullpen would be great, too. If the Sox really want to win this year and make a run at it, they need to bolster the team more. With a 4 game deficit and a tough schedule, they can't be lulled into complacency by the recent success against non-contenders. They need to add 2 more arms. Ponson and Scott Williamson, perhaps?

Tragg
07-28-2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
WEAVER is much better. Livan sucked all last year and he sucked in the playoffs. Plus, he's an NL guy. I definitely DON'T want an NL guy pitching for us.

Gumshoe
Neither amounts to more than a #4 starter in my opinion - and both make like $6 mill - what a waste. I don't want either on this ballclub.

DirtySouthsider
07-28-2003, 05:46 PM
Like a few guys have said already.....It's time to go for it....screw the future ! If you can go out and get Livan Hernadez...then do it. As a 5th starter he would be great. As far as the salary.....I'm sick of worry about that stuff. This is CHICAGO.....if the Sox win a World Series we will miraclously become a BIG market team again. Everybody knows when the Sox win big....they draw big! Winning a World Series would turn this francise around big time. To continue to try and build for the future has been done before.....AND IT DOESN'T WORK!
So I would hate to see us lose the division by a game or two because we didn't have the balls to make another big move!

gosox41
07-28-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by ScottyTheSoxFan
rumors have the yanks and sox talking weaver for gordon and cotts? are you saying we should trade one of our most valuable relievers and our top pitching prospect for jeff weaver and his 15 million owed over 2 years? i wouldnt.

That rumor is old. If there is any truth to it, then it helps prove KW should be fired immediately. Weaver is having a bad year and the Sox need Gordon out of the bullpen. And that doesn't even include trying to salvage the one positive thing from the Foulke trade.

Bob

gosox41
07-28-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe

," --- Well then those very people should be PISSED we don't have Keith Foulke !

Gumshoe

I am.

JJAustin69
07-28-2003, 10:54 PM
Word around here is that the Astros are looking at getting Weaver. They scouted him in NY last week.

WillieHarris12
07-29-2003, 08:23 AM
Go for Livan. He is a postseason competitor. I'd love to see him as a White Sox.

Iwritecode
07-29-2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
That rumor is old. If there is any truth to it, then it helps prove KW should be fired immediately. Weaver is having a bad year and the Sox need Gordon out of the bullpen. And that doesn't even include trying to salvage the one positive thing from the Foulke trade.

Bob

The rumor I read was that the Yanks were asking for Gordon and Cotts and KW told them no way. It's not like he was offering those two guys for Weaver.

hold2dibber
07-29-2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
The rumor I read was that the Yanks were asking for Gordon and Cotts and KW told them no way. It's not like he was offering those two guys for Weaver.

Thank you. Hopefully that will put this insane rumor to rest.

lowesox
07-29-2003, 11:21 AM
I think picking up a starter is a good idea, but I think we should be going for a GOOD starter. The truth is, if we made the playoffs, I'd be a little bit nervous about Jon Garland starting a game. As well as that - I think our bullpen desperately needs another solid righthander. So this is what I think we should do.

Let's get somebody good. Like a Ponson or a Garcia (although I'm not sure Seattle would trade to a potential playoff oponent). But if we got somebody good like that, we could use 5 starters the rest of the way. Then if we make the playoffs we could use Garland as a righty out of the pen. He's been pretty good in that role in the past.

Tragg
07-29-2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by Foulke You
I'm afraid I disagree with your assessment of #5 starters. This team is going to need 5 dependable starters just to win the Central Division. You have to get there first and getting a #5 guy is a big step towards getting there. They only become bullpen guys when you actually MAKE the playoffs.

What happened on Saturday was a perfect example of this team's only, but glaring hole in the rotation. We missed a great chance to gain on KC and the Twinks that day. We scored 6 runs. A dependable #5 starter could have held the D-Rays to less than 6 runs and preserve a White Sox winner. At this point of the season, we need to sweep teams. We can't just be happy with 2 out of 3 against the D-Rays.

The fault saturday rests with the middle relief as much as with the starters.

dickallen15
07-29-2003, 11:48 AM
5 decent starters are a must when you have to play catch-up. If the starter only goes 2 or 3 innings, there's a good chance your bullpen will get blown out for a couple games after that. Obviously, White was weak on Saturday, but if Porzio would have given a solid 5 innings, you would have to worry about 6or 7 innings from your middle guys, which are the weaker relievers. It is imperative Williams picks up another reliable starter or has someone in house who can get the job done.

kempsted
07-29-2003, 01:38 PM
The fault saturday rests with the middle relief as much as with the starters

True... but more of it lies with Manuel. I just finally got to watch this game this morning. White came in and did what he was supposed to at first but Manuel brought him back out and as he got shelled just left him in. Yikes. When a pitcher doesn't have it or is losing it take him out. Why is it every manager we are facing removes pitchers at the first sign of trouble and ares is ... :angry: