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View Full Version : Can someone help me with this.....


QueerGirrl
07-28-2003, 11:04 AM
Why does JM let a pitcher come out of the dugout, take his warm-up pitches and right before the pitcher makes his first pitch for that inning, JM gets up and takes him out? Manuel did this yesterday to Colon and I don't understand it. Is it because JM wants the pitcher to get applause from the crowd? This really bothered me. It seemed Manuel knew that Colon was done and Kelly was ready in the pen. Why didn't he have Kelly come out in the first place?

Irishsox1
07-28-2003, 11:05 AM
So Bartolo could get a stand O from the crowd.

A.T. Money
07-28-2003, 11:07 AM
Maybe Wunsch wasn't finished. He did the same thing to Colon at the Urinal. Not sure what he's thinking.

LuvSox
07-28-2003, 11:12 AM
It's advertising money. Change the pitcher during the inning and more commercials get played.



:reinsy

"No conspiracy here, just the free enterprise system in action."

Paulwny
07-28-2003, 11:13 AM
In some cases, when the relief pitcher doesn't feel ready, it allows him to continue warming up in the pen and then he'll also have additional pitches from the mound when he enters the game.

Jerko
07-28-2003, 11:15 AM
I asked the same thing in the gameday thread from yesterday. That's like the 3rd time he did that and it makes me sick! Maybe he just woke up or something or feels the need to get on TV. NOBODY else does that! Knowing Manuel, he probably wanted to make the move the entire time but did not have the bullpen up fast enough even though he knew he wanted to take Colon out. Idiot.

MisterB
07-28-2003, 11:24 AM
I've seen Tony LaRussa and other managers do this to buy a little more time for a reliever to warm up in the bullpen. But usually it would only be used if, for instance, a pitchers starts warming up while his team is at bat, and they quickly go 1-2-3, but I don't think this applied in this case. It could take decades of scientific study to figure out what the hell Manuel's thought process is.

QueerGirrl
07-28-2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by LuvSox
It's advertising money. Change the pitcher during the inning and more commercials get played.



:reinsy

"No conspiracy here, just the free enterprise system in action."





Very interesting......this wouldn't surprise me at all.

QueerGirrl
07-28-2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Knowing Manuel, he probably wanted to make the move the entire time but did not have the bullpen up fast enough even though he knew he wanted to take Colon out. Idiot.


That's what I keep thinking!

Unregistered
07-28-2003, 11:31 AM
IIRC, in the recap JM mentioned that Wunsch needed more warmup time. Something tells me that he didn't mention this to Colon. Bartolo declining to talk to reporters after the game might be some indication of how he felt about the situation...

MarqSox
07-28-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
So Bartolo could get a stand O from the crowd.

This is the real reason, though Kelly needing more warmups might have been part of it. It's a classy move, and whether Colon agreed with being taken out or not, he certainly had to appreciate the opportunity to get a standing ovation.

TornLabrum
07-28-2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Unregistered
IIRC, in the recap JM mentioned that Wunsch needed more warmup time. Something tells me that he didn't mention this to Colon. Bartolo declining to talk to reporters after the game might be some indication of how he felt about the situation...

Bartolo only speaks through an interpreter, so that may be putting more weight on this incident than it deserves.

Unregistered
07-28-2003, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Bartolo only speaks through an interpreter, so that may be putting more weight on this incident than it deserves. I'm not necessarily saying that he was clearly irritated or anything of that nature, it's just that Colon never had any problems speaking with the press following games before... in fact, it was his interpreter who said that he wasn't going to be talking. Just thought it was worth mentioning...

delben91
07-28-2003, 12:01 PM
According to The Southtown (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/281sd1.htm), Bartolo wasn't feeling up to interviews after the game.


Bartolo Colon didn't meet with the media following his sparkling eight-inning performance Sunday. The right-handed pitcher said through a team spokesman he was a bit under the weather after the White Sox's 9-1 win over Tampa Bay.

Imagine how the Devil Rays must have felt.

gogosoxgogo
07-28-2003, 12:18 PM
I think its a combination of wanting to get Bartolo a standing O and giving the reliver a little more time to get ready. I also think it may be for the pitching matchup. JM wants to see if the other manager will use a pinch hitter in the situation. If he pinch hits a righty, he'll let Bartolo stay. A lefty or the same batter and he'll bring in Wunsch.

Unregistered
07-28-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
I also think it may be for the pitching matchup. JM wants to see if the other manager will use a pinch hitter in the situation. If he pinch hits a righty, he'll let Bartolo stay. A lefty or the same batter and he'll bring in Wunsch. To quote the D-Rays broadcaster: "What is this garbage? They're matching up Crawford with an 8-run lead??"
Manual is an idiot.

doublem23
07-28-2003, 01:31 PM
Man, some of you people are really hard to please. He let Bartolo get a standing O, gave Kelly a few more warmup tosses, and got the Sox more commercial time. No harm, no foul.

:)

BTW, Manuel isn't the only manager in the game who does that.

voodoochile
07-28-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Man, some of you people are really hard to please. He let Bartolo get a standing O, gave Kelly a few more warmup tosses, and got the Sox more commercial time. No harm, no foul.

:)

BTW, Manuel isn't the only manager in the game who does that.

My question is: Why take out a guy who has thrown 88 pitches (71 for strikes) at all? The man was working on a 3 hitter and the Sox were blowing the D-Rays out.

If Wunsch needed work, that's one thing, but otherwise it was more Jerry being too damn smart for his own damn good.

Hangar18
07-28-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Bartolo only speaks through an interpreter, so that may be putting more weight on this incident than it deserves.

No Pun Intended :smile:

doublem23
07-28-2003, 01:35 PM
Or maybe Bartolo said something during the break like he really wasn't feeling too well, but Jerry let him warm up and see how he felt in an attempt to try and finish it?

Too many conspiracy theories for something that seems pretty insignificant.

voodoochile
07-28-2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Or maybe Bartolo said something during the break like he really wasn't feeling too well, but Jerry let him warm up and see how he felt in an attempt to try and finish it?

Too many conspiracy theories for something that seems pretty insignificant.

You know what? You're right. In the end it is pretty small compared to all the other stuff. For me it's more symptomatic of the overall Manuel mindset.

Maybe Colon asked to be taken out. If no, he should have been allowed to finish. If for no other reason than it sends a message to the rest of the league about what he intends to do these last 60 games. That in turn sends a message to the rest of the team to pick up their level of play. There was a chance for a big emotional moment for the team and a chance to say to KC. Hey, we're coming to town on Tuesday and you are in for a fight. Manuel missed it. It's that aspect of his management style that ticks ME off the most. He needs to find ways to keep the fire burning. When given a simple chance - he misses it. That's the missing element in many situation with this team. The chemistry, the desire, the "will to win". Whatever you call it, and THAT'S a manager's MAIN JOB.

This team clearly doesn't like playing for him and they are starting to say so PUBLICLY. That in and of itself says more than I ever can...

kempsted
07-28-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
My question is: Why take out a guy who has thrown 88 pitches (71 for strikes) at all? The man was working on a 3 hitter and the Sox were blowing the D-Rays out.

If Wunsch needed work, that's one thing, but otherwise it was more Jerry being too damn smart for his own damn good.

And that is exactly what was said. Wunsch needed the work since he just came back and he thought game time where they were up by a lot would be good. I agree with this move (for once) but had the same question why he didn't do it before the inning started. Colon is silll high up on the abused pitcher list for too many pitches and too many innings so I have nothing against not having him complete the game.

voodoochile
07-28-2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by kempsted
And that is exactly what was said. Wunsch needed the work since he just came back and he thought game time where they were up by a lot would be good. I agree with this move (for once) but had the same question why he didn't do it before the inning started. Colon is silll high up on the abused pitcher list for too many pitches and too many innings so I have nothing against not having him complete the game.

You know, I shouldn't have put that qualifier in there. What I meant was, if Colon couldn't finish then it was okay. To me the chance to get Wunsch work isn't a valid reason, IMO. The next post where I talk about the emotional impact of everyone going out there and getting to shake Bartolo's hand as the crowd stands and applauds outweighs the Wunsch work...

If Bart was strong enough to finish, then he should have. Make a statement. Take a stand. Someone on this team needs to and role models have been few and far between this season.