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jabrch
07-27-2003, 10:54 AM
For Sidney Ponson? I know they already turned down our offer of Konerko for him. What would it take to make it work? I know they'd like to unload Conine's salary...What about Konerko and Carlos for Connine and Ponson?

Would we give up a prospect for Ponson? I probably wouldn't give a Cotts/Reed for him primarily because I think those guys have a chance to be something, but also because Ponson is a FA after the season.

Would Olivo be attractive to Baltimore?


On that note, who else is out there that will be trading SP at the deadline? Toronto is shopping Escobar. He might be a good addition. Any shot at getting Washburn or Ortiz from Anaheim? What about sending Konerko to the Dodgers for a SP? (Sadly even Paulie's offense would help the Dodgers...)

I am hoping Kenny pulls something off to get us another SP and a right handed setup guy to go along with Marte and White so Flash can focus on closing.

soxtalker
07-27-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
For Sidney Ponson? I know they already turned down our offer of Konerko for him. What would it take to make it work? I know they'd like to unload Conine's salary...What about Konerko and Carlos for Connine and Ponson?

Would we give up a prospect for Ponson? I probably wouldn't give a Cotts/Reed for him primarily because I think those guys have a chance to be something, but also because Ponson is a FA after the season.

Would Olivo be attractive to Baltimore?


On that note, who else is out there that will be trading SP at the deadline? Toronto is shopping Escobar. He might be a good addition. Any shot at getting Washburn or Ortiz from Anaheim? What about sending Konerko to the Dodgers for a SP? (Sadly even Paulie's offense would help the Dodgers...)

I am hoping Kenny pulls something off to get us another SP and a right handed setup guy to go along with Marte and White so Flash can focus on closing.

I don't see any trade involving Olivo. I realize that he isn't hitting very well right now, but I don't think that they expect that to be the norm for his career. If he does start hitting, he's our long-term answer at catcher. Now, of course, the majority here want to win now and not worry about next year. Trading Olivo also incurs immediate risk unless we get a catcher in return. Alomar could get hurt, particularly if he has to play every day.

Tragg
07-27-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
For Sidney Ponson? I know they already turned down our offer of Konerko for him. What would it take to make it work? I know they'd like to unload Conine's salary...What about Konerko and Carlos for Connine and Ponson?

Would we give up a prospect for Ponson? I probably wouldn't give a Cotts/Reed for him primarily because I think those guys have a chance to be something, but also because Ponson is a FA after the season.

Would Olivo be attractive to Baltimore?


On that note, who else is out there that will be trading SP at the deadline? Toronto is shopping Escobar. He might be a good addition. Any shot at getting Washburn or Ortiz from Anaheim? What about sending Konerko to the Dodgers for a SP? (Sadly even Paulie's offense would help the Dodgers...)

I am hoping Kenny pulls something off to get us another SP and a right handed setup guy to go along with Marte and White so Flash can focus on closing.

Ponson is going to be a free agent. Dump the only catcher we have anywhere close to being a major leaguer for a rent a player? Who do you suggest does our catching if we dump Olivo?

If we are going to mortgage ourselves for the HOPE that we win the WS, then make moves that make WS sense. The only help a 5th starter brings in the playoffs is in the pen - so make sure he can throw in the pen as well.

Get rid of Konerko? A) if he's physically impaired, no one will take him. b)Who plays first/DH? Daubach is a bench bat - period. And he's about the only one we have on the bench. One of our problems is that we have a bench in which 2 players can't even pinch hit - harris and rowand.


We've already lost the only CF prospect we had, and we have no major league CF to begin with. We have no infield prospects of note. With Kenny Williams at the helm, no bargains will come our way; and with JR not wanting to pay salary, we'll lose even more of what we have in the minors in these trades.

And we better win it this year- because with most of the suggestions I've seen, we'll be lucky to win 65 games next year.

We have one of the top 5 staffs in baseball - and that with the problem at 5th starter. Probably means we have one of the top 2 or so staffs without that fifth problem. That's a pretty strong hand. Find someone for the pen and move on - and in the meantime, let Wright pitch out of the pen

jabrch
07-27-2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
We've already lost the only CF prospect we had


Isn't Borchard a natural CF?

That said, I don't want to trade Olivo either.... I hope he is the long term solution. I'd love to see us do something that pushes us over the top... I just don't know what exactly that move could be.

MisterB
07-27-2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Isn't Borchard a natural CF?

Borchard played RF in college. Whether he'll be capable major league CF remains to be seen.

doublem23
07-27-2003, 07:39 PM
Jeremy Reed. Who looks to be a lot better than Webster, anyways.

gogosoxgogo
07-27-2003, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Jeremy Reed. Who looks to be a lot better than Webster, anyways.

Reed for Ponson? In a heartbeat.

MarkEdward
07-27-2003, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Reed for Ponson? In a heartbeat.

Ah! No way. Reed's our best hitter in the minors, and one of the best hitters in minor league baseball.

Plus, Ponson is playing with a partially torn labrum which could act up at any time.

gogosoxgogo
07-27-2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Ah! No way. Reed's our best hitter in the minors, and one of the best hitters in minor league baseball.

Plus, Ponson is playing with a partially torn labrum which could act up at any time.

We've got Borchard and Anderson ahead of him as our future CF's.

MarkEdward
07-27-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
We've got Borchard and Anderson ahead of him as our future CF's.

Is that the same Joe Borchard with the .667 OPS in AAA? And the same Brian Anderson with less than 50 professional ABs?

Right now, I'd take Reed over both of them.

Daver
07-27-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Is that the same Joe Borchard with the .667 OPS in AAA? And the same Brian Anderson with less than 50 professional ABs?

Right now, I'd take Reed over both of them.

Reed is a left fielder,not a center fielder.

gogosoxgogo
07-27-2003, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Is that the same Joe Borchard with the .667 OPS in AAA? And the same Brian Anderson with less than 50 professional ABs?

Right now, I'd take Reed over both of them.

First off, I agree with you about Borchard. That guy will not be anything, despite what people are saying/have said about him.

Yes, Anderson has had 50 pro AB's, but he's hit what, .390 in them!? Anderson has the average that Reed has, pretty similar speed, is a better defender who can hit for power.

What you have to keep in mind is that all 3 of these guys MAY be a good player when they reach the majors. Ponson has already proved that he can do the job in the majors with 14 victories this year. He would be what we need to put us over the top and rid ourselves of this losing tradition. Enough is enough, I want to win, not wait to see if Reed can maybe help us 3 years from now.

MarkEdward
07-28-2003, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by daver


Reed is a left fielder,not a center fielder.

I know that, and I'd still take Reed over both of them.


Originally posted by gogosoxgogo


First off, I agree with you about Borchard. That guy will not be anything, despite what people are saying/have said about him.

Well, I wouldn't go that far.

Yes, Anderson has had 50 pro AB's, but he's hit what, .390 in them!?

Yes, he has. In a rookie league. I'd wait a few hundred plate appearances before anointing him as anything great.

Plus, 50 ABs is a very small sample size.

Ponson has already proved that he can do the job in the majors with 14 victories this year. He would be what we need to put us over the top and rid ourselves of this losing tradition.

Wow, you sure have a lot of faith in Ponson. In my opinion, Ponson isn't the "missing link" that's keeping us from dominating major league baseball. He is a good pitcher, but he'll only pitch one or two games a week. And Posnon hasn't been all that great this year anyway; he's the equivalent of Bartolo Colon, SNWAR-wise.

Also, there is that labrum problem. I don't want to give up one of the best prospects in baseball (Reed) for a pitcher who may need major surgery down the line (Ponson).

Plus, getting Ponson won't help us with our offensive problems. Remember, we have the second-worst hitting third baseman in the AL and the second-worst hitting catcher both in our starting lineup.

gogosoxgogo
07-28-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
[B]Well, I wouldn't go that far.

Just my personal belief, I know its unpopular, but that's my 'hunch' on this kid.

Yes, he has. In a rookie league. I'd wait a few hundred plate appearances before anointing him as anything great.

Plus, 50 ABs is a very small sample size.

You're right, it is too early to tell whether Anderson will be anything special, but I do think that what he has done means SOMETHING. This guy's a 5 tool player, drafted in the first round, who also had sucess in college. Yes, that doesn't mean he will be suceed in the majors, but that does count for something.

Wow, you sure have a lot of faith in Ponson. In my opinion, Ponson isn't the "missing link" that's keeping us from dominating major league baseball. He is a good pitcher, but he'll only pitch one or two games a week.

'Missing link' may have been exagerated a little bit, but I don't think there is much doubt amongst Sox fans that we have to do something about this 5th starter spot... that is unless you're confident with Porzio or Wright. And it only takes 'one or two games' to lose a division.

And Posnon hasn't been all that great this year anyway; he's the equivalent of Bartolo Colon, SNWAR-wise.

I don't know about you, but I'd love to have another Bartolo Colon (especially one with 14 wins) on the pitching staff.

Also, there is that labrum problem. I don't want to give up one of the best prospects in baseball (Reed) for a pitcher who may need major surgery down the line (Ponson).

Chances are we're only going to have Ponson for a year, and he hasn't been troubled by his labrum this year at all, so he looks to be in pretty good shape. Also, it's not like there haven't been pitchers who haven't been able to rebound from arm troubles... or are you saying you wouldn't want John Smoltz coming out of our bullpen.

Plus, getting Ponson won't help us with our offensive problems. Remember, we have the second-worst hitting third baseman in the AL and the second-worst hitting catcher both in our starting lineup.

Our offense is better than it has shown. You're the one that seems to be so concerned about the future... are you willing to trade Crede or Olivo? We could probably get Batista if that would interest you. I'm not ready to give up on either of these two, and if nothing else, both have provided us with above average defense. Plus, they aren't cancers in the clubhouse, they're both good young kids that are going to develop down the line.

A.T. Money
07-28-2003, 12:05 PM
Win now. Screw the future.

I'll take losing for 20 years straight if we won the world series this year.

MarkEdward
07-28-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
You're right, it is too early to tell whether Anderson will be anything special, but I do think that what he has done means SOMETHING. This guy's a 5 tool player, drafted in the first round, who also had sucess in college. Yes, that doesn't mean he will be suceed in the majors, but that does count for something.

I do agree with this. But just because Anderson may turn out to be a very good ballplayer (and the chances are good) doesn't mean we have to trade every outfielder ahead of him.

'Missing link' may have been exagerated a little bit, but I don't think there is much doubt amongst Sox fans that we have to do something about this 5th starter spot... that is unless you're confident with Porzio or Wright. And it only takes 'one or two games' to lose a division.

Well, if we're just looking for a fifth starter, Jeff Suppan would fit that role, and he'd come cheaper.

I don't know about you, but I'd love to have another Bartolo Colon (especially one with 14 wins) on the pitching staff.

I would love to have another Bartolo also, I just don't want to give Reed up for him.

Also, it's not like there haven't been pitchers who haven't been able to rebound from arm troubles... or are you saying you wouldn't want John Smoltz coming out of our bullpen.

No way would I give up Jeremy Reed for a glorified reliever.


Our offense is better than it has shown. You're the one that seems to be so concerned about the future... are you willing to trade Crede or Olivo? We could probably get Batista if that would interest you. I'm not ready to give up on either of these two, and if nothing else, both have provided us with above average defense. Plus, they aren't cancers in the clubhouse, they're both good young kids that are going to develop down the line.

Well, I don't necessarily want to trade Olivo or Crede (although another catcher would be nice), but I don't see how Ponson will help their offensive struggles.

jabrch
07-28-2003, 01:53 PM
The more I look at our upcoming schedule, the more I want Ponson... I think he has the best stuff of anyone who is available. I just dont' want to give up the farm to do it.

TornLabrum
07-28-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
Win now. Screw the future.

I'll take losing for 20 years straight if we won the world series this year.

Typical Chicago. Why do we think that we're only entitled to one moment of glory every 50 years or so?

voodoochile
07-28-2003, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Typical Chicago. Why do we think that we're only entitled to one moment of glory every 50 years or so?

Can we at least have the one and then worry about when we get the next one? Don't get me wrong. I don't want to finish no higher than second for the next 19 years either, but let's get the one and then go from there... :D:

A.T. Money
07-28-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Typical Chicago. Why do we think that we're only entitled to one moment of glory every 50 years or so?

Because when you only win one every 90 years, a 50 year drought is refreshing!

TornLabrum
07-28-2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Can we at least have the one and then worry about when we get the next one? Don't get me wrong. I don't want to finish no higher than second for the next 19 years either, but let's get the one and then go from there... :D:

The point is that as fans we need to demand more, not settle for the scraps we've been getting for the past 86 years.

gogosoxgogo
07-28-2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I do agree with this. But just because Anderson may turn out to be a very good ballplayer (and the chances are good) doesn't mean we have to trade every outfielder ahead of him.

No, of course not. My original point was that since we have 3 CF/OF types in the minors who are projected to be big guns when they get the majors, I would be more willing to part with one of them than if we had, say only one top tier SS prospect with no one close to him in ability. I like Reed and would like to keep him, but if something comes along that can help us NOW, I would be willing to deal him because we have suitable replacements for him.

Well, if we're just looking for a fifth starter, Jeff Suppan would fit that role, and he'd come cheaper.

I agree with you here. Suppan is earning less money and could be had for less of our depleted minor league system. I'd rather have Ponson because I think he is a better pitcher, but pending the price of what it would cost to get him, I think I would rather trade for Suppan.

I would love to have another Bartolo also, I just don't want to give Reed up for him.

So if there was a clone of Bartolo in the majors, you would not trade Reed for him straight up?

No way would I give up Jeremy Reed for a glorified reliever.

Reed for Gagne? Reed for Smoltz? Reed for Rivera? Reed for Percival? Reed for Wagner? You're honestly telling me you would not do any of those? ...Or am I (hopefully) misunderstanding you?

Well, I don't necessarily want to trade Olivo or Crede (although another catcher would be nice), but I don't see how Ponson will help their offensive struggles.

He won't, but the the pitching problem will be easier to address than our offensive inconcistancy. Plus, our offense has been a lot better of late with Alomar and Everett.

jabrch
07-28-2003, 05:58 PM
I'd love to have another Bartolo...and if he was locked in for a few more years, I'd give you Reed for him. I'd give you Reed for a top tier closer like those names you offered. But I wouldn't give you Reed for Ponson, a FA next year. I wouldn't give you Reed for a reliever like Scott Sauerbeck or even Uggy Urbina who is a FA next year.