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Paulwny
07-27-2003, 06:49 AM
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

July 27, 2003


Minneapolis - A former superintendent at the Metrodome admits he tried to help the Minnesota Twins by adjusting the ventilation system during the late innings of close games in an attempt to get baseballs to carry farther.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-dome273390363jul27,0,5702748.story?coll=ny-baseball-headlines

duke of dorwood
07-27-2003, 08:49 AM
:shammy

I wouldn't need cork if I played there

hose
07-27-2003, 09:10 AM
I'm sure the present Twin players and fans will turn this around and cry about not getting any respect.

"Da hey der, I betcha dat Phil Rogers guy from Chicago had something to do with dis article."

Lip Man 1
07-27-2003, 12:59 PM
No differnt from when the Sox sloped the base line IN so their bunts would stay fair or water down the home plate area so that you'd need a cannon to get a ball out of the infield.

It's called gamesmenship. Perfectly acceptable.

Lip

MisterB
07-27-2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
No differnt from when the Sox sloped the base line IN so their bunts would stay fair or water down the home plate area so that you'd need a cannon to get a ball out of the infield.

It's called gamesmenship. Perfectly acceptable.

Lip

Except the groundskeepers couldn't slope the line back the other way when the opponents came to bat. BTW, was it the Sox that had the visitor's bullpen mounds at a different height to throw off their pitchers?

PaleHoseGeorge
07-27-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
No differnt from when the Sox sloped the base line IN so their bunts would stay fair or water down the home plate area so that you'd need a cannon to get a ball out of the infield.

It's called gamesmenship. Perfectly acceptable.

Lip

Well... not exactly.

Foul lines are tipped the same for both teams. The Sox play half their games at the Cell and can expect to utilize the tip better than the opposition. However there is NOTHING different about those foul lines for either team. You can say the same thing about natural turf vs. artificial turf, foul territory, and outfield wall distances (though Veeck used to move the walls in and out for each series in Cleveland, they were still the same for both teams).

What we're talking about here is literally CHANGING playing conditions with every half-inning of play. That is significantly different from what we normally associate with gamesmanship for the home team, and definitely ought not be dismissed as simply "home field advantage".

This is much more akin to a team posting somebody beyond the center field wall to flash the catcher's signs to the home team's batter. Unless both teams are allowed to do it, this is cheating, plain and simple.

voodoochile
07-27-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
No differnt from when the Sox sloped the base line IN so their bunts would stay fair or water down the home plate area so that you'd need a cannon to get a ball out of the infield.

It's called gamesmenship. Perfectly acceptable.

Lip

No, it's not. You can't see the difference between creating a field that favors your hitting style, but is the same for every AB regardless of which team is playing and changing the conditions for each team depending on the situation?

That's why there are very specific rules about when a team can sift the infield and make other changes. Can you imagine if the Sox came out and fixed the mound right before their closer came in every game, or erected huge fans on the light pole crossbars that were designed to blow in when the other team was batting?

One more reason to hate that hellhole of a stadium the Twinkies call home...

SoxxoS
07-27-2003, 02:24 PM
Are there any plans to blow that place up in the near future?

RKMeibalane
07-27-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Are there any plans to blow that place up in the near future?

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

"The plans you refer to are currently under development."

Lip Man 1
07-27-2003, 04:16 PM
How about the frozen baseballs?

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
07-27-2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
How about the frozen baseballs?

Lip

Fair, if they were all frozen for pitchers from both sides. :smile:

I love this. I feel like I'm God.

:D:

Lip Man 1
07-27-2003, 10:06 PM
But frozen baseball negated the strenghts of many other long ball hitting teams and played into the style of the Sox.

Isn't that the same as changing the field conditions for only one team?

Lip

voodoochile
07-27-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
But frozen baseball negated the strenghts of many other long ball hitting teams and played into the style of the Sox.

Isn't that the same as changing the field conditions for only one team?

Lip

Not in the same league. Now if one team hit regular baseballs and the other team had frozen ones, it would be a different issue.

The key difference here is the changes inning to inning and batter to batter and team to team. So long as both teams are playing under the same conditions, no problem.

I remember a few years ago in an NFL playoff team, the home teams ball boy sent out a soaking wet football for a crucial kick by the visitors late in the game - though I don't recall the result, I am pretty sure the guy missed. As a result the NFL went to independent ball men and made kickers kick with brand new footballs every time.

All we ask is a level playing field, whatever that field is. The frozen baseballs are no different than Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds having short RF lines. Everyone is free to try and take advantage of it...

Jerko
07-28-2003, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
No differnt from when the Sox sloped the base line IN so their bunts would stay fair or water down the home plate area so that you'd need a cannon to get a ball out of the infield.

It's called gamesmenship. Perfectly acceptable.

Lip

The Sox used to know how to BUNT?

Procol Harum
07-28-2003, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
The Sox used to know how to BUNT?

In a distant galaxy, a long, long time ago....

:luis&nell

dllrbll7
07-28-2003, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

July 27, 2003


Minneapolis - A former superintendent at the Metrodome admits he tried to help the Minnesota Twins by adjusting the ventilation system during the late innings of close games in an attempt to get baseballs to carry farther.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-dome273390363jul27,0,5702748.story?coll=ny-baseball-headlines

I remember someone mentioned this awhile ago just on a onservation from the game. I believe it was someone here. But either way i definately agree that its cheating

PaleHoseGeorge
07-28-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by dllrbll7
I remember someone mentioned this awhile ago just on a onservation from the game. I believe it was someone here. But either way i definately agree that its cheating

I think it was WhiteSoxWilkes who attended a game at the Hump Dome earlier this season. IIRC, he mentioned that there was a huge difference in the air circulation throughout the game. He also mentioned something about long rows of seats, blocked by too many overweight Minnesotans eating ice cream with their kids. :smile:

gogosoxgogo
07-28-2003, 08:05 PM
Ha! I saw that, too. I doubt that really does much, though. Maybe it made balls go about 3 feet further, but not much more than that.

whitesoxwilkes
07-28-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I think it was WhiteSoxWilkes who attended a game at the Hump Dome earlier this season. IIRC, he mentioned that there was a huge difference in the air circulation throughout the game. He also mentioned something about long rows of seats, blocked by too many overweight Minnesotans eating ice cream with their kids. :smile:

Aye, twas I who posted that. I was pretty oblivous to the airflow though until my faithful baseball traveling companion Hangar18 pointed it out.

voodoochile
07-28-2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Ha! I saw that, too. I doubt that really does much, though. Maybe it made balls go about 3 feet further, but not much more than that.

Which would (at least) certainly affect all of those over-the-fence, homerun-saving grabs by Toriiiii now wouldn't it? Now I understand how they do it, they cheat.

Besides, isn't it the principle of the thing?

Nellie_Fox
07-29-2003, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
In a distant galaxy, a long, long time ago....

:luis&nell Just look at the guns on them boys. Tell me they weren't using the 'roids "back in the day." :D:

Twins8791
07-29-2003, 12:43 AM
The fans being talked about are at field level behind home. The ball is generally hit upward for a home run. If the fan can affect the distance of a ball hit 370+ feet on the fly, the home plate umpire shouldn't be able to keep his cap on. Nice try.

Besides, the Twins teams of the last 30 years or so haven't been home run hitting teams, unless you think a team with mediocre power would have been a team with zero power without the 'help'.

Hangar18
07-29-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

July 27, 2003


Minneapolis - A former superintendent at the Metrodome admits he tried to help the Minnesota Twins by adjusting the ventilation system during the late innings of close games in an attempt to get baseballs to carry farther.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-dome273390363jul27,0,5702748.story?coll=ny-baseball-headlines

Hmmmm, I remember being in Minneapolis very recently, and remarking on the nice summer breeze one could feel heading towards the outfield....except the fact that we were indoors!!
I knew eventually this would come out. I remember calling Julie Swieca on the way back from Minny and remarking on this, and she laughed and thought it was a bit absurd (which does sound so). I told my dumb cub fan cousin about it and he said it was
just a sox fan being jealous and making up excuses. He said
there was no way someone could control the air quality in
the stadium. I told him he was a buffoon, if we can invent
Fax Machines and put Rockets in orbit, im sure the air could be
controlled in the Metrodome. Cant wait to print this
and show this Idiot this....

Hangar18
07-29-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by whitesoxwilkes
Aye, twas I who posted that. I was pretty oblivous to the airflow though until my faithful baseball traveling companion Hangar18 pointed it out.

Wilky.....Remember how we kept Taunting the Twinkie fans
in our section to Explain the Meterological effects of the mystery
breeze ?? They thought we were full of hot air, no pun intended?
Yeah.....the same fans who had pictures of cub fans running on
the field, and calling them sox fans. I remember the HumpDome
very well now......

gogosoxgogo
07-29-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Which would (at least) certainly affect all of those over-the-fence, homerun-saving grabs by Toriiiii now wouldn't it? Now I understand how they do it, they cheat.

Besides, isn't it the principle of the thing?

Certainly it's the principle of the thing, but don't try telling me that other teams haven't tried giving themselves a little home field advantage as well. I just don't think what this guy did really helped them as much as you all are giving it credit for. Anything that was going out was going anway.

Hangar18
07-29-2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Certainly it's the principle of the thing, but don't try telling me that other teams haven't tried giving themselves a little home field advantage as well. I just don't think what this guy did really helped them as much as you all are giving it credit for. Anything that was going out was going anway.

Im going to beg to differ on this one. I was sitting in the
RF corner area of the MetroDome, so I had a good view of
Carlos Lee batting. When he Connected on that pitch
late in the game....that ball was CRUSHED. The Trajectory
in which it left his bat suggested that this ball was headed
towards the Wisconsin state line on a laser beam. Carlos
kind of stood there watching it, the way some guys do when
they realize theyve Smoked a long HR. But as the ball headed
towards the stratosphere about 3/4 of the way out of the park....
it just kind...of....slowwwwed down. It looked like a ball that
was hitting a Giant marshmallow up there....it slowed down
and then started sinking......at which point I thought Oh No You Dont....No Way.....and Hunter Jumped and took it back. Mind you
that was a nice catch. But if the Fans had stayed in the "ON" position...that ball wouldve just kept Sailing towards the upper
deck in CF......instead of letting gravity pull it back to earth.
My opinion, but I probably had the best spot in the park to note this trajectory......

gogosoxgogo
07-29-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Im going to beg to differ on this one. I was sitting in the
RF corner area of the MetroDome, so I had a good view of
Carlos Lee batting. When he Connected on that pitch
late in the game....that ball was CRUSHED. The Trajectory
in which it left his bat suggested that this ball was headed
towards the Wisconsin state line on a laser beam. Carlos
kind of stood there watching it, the way some guys do when
they realize theyve Smoked a long HR. But as the ball headed
towards the stratosphere about 3/4 of the way out of the park....
it just kind...of....slowwwwed down. It looked like a ball that
was hitting a Giant marshmallow up there....it slowed down
and then started sinking......at which point I thought Oh No You Dont....No Way.....and Hunter Jumped and took it back. Mind you
that was a nice catch. But if the Fans had stayed in the "ON" position...that ball wouldve just kept Sailing towards the upper
deck in CF......instead of letting gravity pull it back to earth.
My opinion, but I probably had the best spot in the park to note this trajectory......

That's great except:

1. The guy adjusting the fans retired in 1995.
2. There have been plenty of balls that were "crushed", but wern't as far as the batter thought they were originally going to be.
3. The guy adjusting the fans only made them blow out for the Twins, not blow in for the other team.

whitesoxwilkes
07-29-2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Wilky.....Remember how we kept Taunting the Twinkie fans
in our section to Explain the Meterological effects of the mystery
breeze ?? They thought we were full of hot air, no pun intended?
Yeah.....the same fans who had pictures of cub fans running on
the field, and calling them sox fans. I remember the HumpDome
very well now......

I'm trying to block that experience out as much as possible. :)

Hangar18
07-29-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
That's great except:

1. The guy adjusting the fans retired in 1995.
2. There have been plenty of balls that were "crushed", but wern't as far as the batter thought they were originally going to be.
3. The guy adjusting the fans only made them blow out for the Twins, not blow in for the other team.

1. Dont think he retired, and didnt "Teach" someone else how
to play with the ventilation system (we felt it in there)
2. Maybe.....
3. Turning the fans ON...certainly made the balls "take off". but turning them OFF im sure would have "NO EFFECT" against the
constant pull of Gravity, which eventually brings the ball back
to earth. Im just saying from where I was sitting.....that ball
was crushed ( i swear there had to be a Dent in the ball)
and if it had that extra "Push", it mightve/wouldve travelled Much FURTHER than where it landed.......IN Hunters Mitt.

gogosoxgogo
07-29-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
1. Dont think he retired, and didnt "Teach" someone else how
to play with the ventilation system (we felt it in there)
2. Maybe.....
3. Turning the fans ON...certainly made the balls "take off". but turning them OFF im sure would have "NO EFFECT" against the
constant pull of Gravity, which eventually brings the ball back
to earth. Im just saying from where I was sitting.....that ball
was crushed ( i swear there had to be a Dent in the ball)
and if it had that extra "Push", it mightve/wouldve travelled Much FURTHER than where it landed.......IN Hunters Mitt.

1. What you felt could have been normal air conditioning. Did you check to see if there were any vents around you?

3. Exactly, Carlos' ball should not have traveled out of the stadium. If it wouldn't have in a normal stadium that doesn't screw around with their vents, then what are you arguing about? Do you think they should have turned the vents on for Carlos or something? Them not turning on the vents for him did not cause any negative effect, it simply did not give him an additional benefit of 3 more feet where Hunter could not catch the ball.

I can't believe I'm arguing in support of the Twinkies here... somebody shoot me.

By the way, you don't need to hit enter at the end of every line, the message boards do it for you.

voodoochile
07-29-2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
I can't believe I'm arguing in support of the Twinkies here... somebody shoot me...


Daver, I believe this is your area... :)

Daver
07-29-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Daver, I believe this is your area


Find out what his preference is,pistol,rifle,carbine,arrow,field artillery.............


:redneck

gogosoxgogo
07-29-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by daver
Find out what his preference is,pistol,rifle,carbine,arrow,field artillery.............


:redneck

Well, you're the expert, so I turn to you. Which will get it over with the quickest?

Daver
07-29-2003, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Well, you're the expert, so I turn to you. Which will get it over with the quickest?


http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/Fifty%20Cal.jpg

PaleHoseGeorge
07-29-2003, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Well, you're the expert, so I turn to you. Which will get it over with the quickest?

Personally, I would think the interminable waiting for an artillery shell to land on your head to be the worst option. Take Daver's suggestion. Machine gun.

Daver
07-29-2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Personally, I would think the interminable waiting for an artillery shell to land on your head to be the worst option. Take Daver's suggestion. Machine gun.

That's not a machine gun.

It is a Barrett BMG-50 .50 caliber sniper rifle,accurate to over 2,000 yards,and capable of peircing a diesel engine.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-29-2003, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by daver
That's not a machine gun.

It is a Barrett BMG-50 .50 caliber sniper rifle,accurate to over 2,000 yards,and capable of peircing a diesel engine.

I stand corrected.

:redneck

Daver
07-29-2003, 07:18 PM
Given enough time I can have all the regulars able to identify small caliber arms by sight.

I have a new goal.


:bandance:

Twins8791
07-30-2003, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by daver
It is a Barrett BMG-50 .50 caliber sniper rifle,accurate to over 2,000 yards,and capable of peircing a diesel engine.
...and Sox fans believe that if the fans are on, it will go through TWO engines.

voodoochile
07-30-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by Twins8791
...and Sox fans believe that if the fans are on, it will go through TWO engines.

If Sosa's unofficial slogan became, "Got Cork?" then the Twinkies must use "Got Gas?"

PaleHoseGeorge
07-30-2003, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Twins8791
...and Sox fans believe that if the fans are on, it will go through TWO engines.

Still pissed off about Gardenhire's bitches blowing another game last night, eh?