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View Full Version : Hey Williams! We Want A 5th Starter!


WillieHarris12
07-26-2003, 09:22 PM
This is a petition for a 5th starter and Mike Porzio's trip back down to Charlotte. We can't afford to lose these games!!! Please if you are reading this Manuel, Wills, KW, etc. Put in a word for a 5th starter!!! Even bring up Cotts or Diaz! PLEASEEEE!!!!

ScottyTheSoxFan
07-26-2003, 09:25 PM
just release porzio outright. he is worthless, and is nothing but a career minor leaguer. we are better without him.

ChiSox14305635
07-26-2003, 09:38 PM
How 'bout giving one of the youngster a shot. How about Cotts? Oakland brought up Harden, why not give Cotts a shot? Or Rauch? Someone, please!

Lip Man 1
07-26-2003, 09:42 PM
As Gary Peters said in his WSI Interview the WORST thing you can do is bring up a rookie in the stretch run of a pennant race.

It's not fair to the team or the pitcher.

Go out and get somebody solid, not spectacular, just solid...someone who can give you a chance to win.

Lip

ChiSox14305635
07-26-2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
As Gary Peters said in his WSI Interview the WORST thing you can do is bring up a rookie in the stretch run of a pennant race.

It's not fair to the team or the pitcher.

Go out and get somebody solid, not spectacular, just solid...someone who can give you a chance to win.

Lip


Then in 2000, Oakland must've been downright awful, 'cause that's what they did. They brought up Zito, and as you can see, he never went back down. Even if not Cotts, somebody down in Charlotte (besides Danny Wright) has to be somewhat capable of pitching in Chicago.

duke of dorwood
07-26-2003, 11:12 PM
Its a miracle we are only 4 games out-out 5th starters, Wrong and Porzio have 1 win between them

WhiteSox = Life
07-26-2003, 11:25 PM
The most amazing thing about this season, is that when the White Sox finally get some damn fine pitching from most of their staff and some pretty good defense, their hitting, their strongest suit the last few seasons, vanishes from the face of the Earth.

The last 9 games, the defense, pitching and offense has been there. Although, the pitching was bad tonight, the offense showed up and the defense wasn't too bad.

Still, when the White Sox finally get really good pitching and pretty good defense, their offense suddenly drops off the face of the Earth for most of the season.

The Sox, according to tonight's broadcast, have the third best pitching and defense in the AL, I believe. The last three years, their offense has been in the top five. Now, it's the second-worst in the AL.

To be honest, this is pretty much an encapsulation of what being a White Sox fan is all about. This is White Sox Irony.

:(:

MarkEdward
07-26-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
How 'bout giving one of the youngster a shot. How about Cotts? Oakland brought up Harden, why not give Cotts a shot? Or Rauch? Someone, please!

While I do agree that Porzio should've been sent down, I wouldn't call up Cotts just yet. There's a big difference between Rich Harden and Neal Cotts: Harden was dominating AAA, and while Cotts has been great in AA, he's still giving up far too many walks. He wouldn't be very successful for the Sox this year.

If we can get Suppan cheap, I'd go for him.

jeremyb1
07-27-2003, 12:40 AM
obviously if we can get a good starter cheap, it'd be nice but i don't think we should break the bank for a fifth guy. it just doesn't make sense to me. you can skip a fifth starter from time to time with off days and you don't need five starters in the playoffs. compared to the first four spots in the rotation its just not all that crucial of a position. anyone that can hold it down with an era around five is solid enough in my opinion. they can keep us in a game assuming we continue to put runs on the board as we have of late. if we'd just had a starter that could've gone 6 innings and give up only four runs tonight there's a good chance we win the game. i think we've got someone like that whether its diaz, rauch, or cotts. they don't have to be spectacular, they just can't be terrible.

TornLabrum
07-27-2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
obviously if we can get a good starter cheap,,,

The Chicago mindset. It has to be done on the cheap. God forbid our owners spend any money!

doublem23
07-27-2003, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
The Chicago mindset. It has to be done on the cheap. God forbid our owners spend any money!

I agree. Especially since we've taken on limited salary for Alomar and Everett, I really would like to see KW go out and spend some dough to snag someone good.

MisterB
07-27-2003, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
The Sox, according to tonight's broadcast, have the third best pitching and defense in the AL, I believe. The last three years, their offense has been in the top five. Now, it's the second-worst in the AL.

The Sox offense is NOT the 2nd worst right now. We've scored more runs than Detroit, Cleveland and Tampa Bay, and going by OPS we're better than Oakland as well. The offense is finally starting to click.

Think happy thoughts... :smile:

jeremyb1
07-27-2003, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
The Chicago mindset. It has to be done on the cheap. God forbid our owners spend any money!

i wasn't referring to money i was referring to talent. we've already lost 2 of our top ten prospects in a system lacking depth i (at least in the upper minors). i'd rather not give up cotts, rauch, reed, or honel which i'm guessing would happen at this point if we made another move. someone like ponson or even suppan won't come cheap in terms of the players we give up in my opinion.

doublem23
07-27-2003, 03:40 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i wasn't referring to money i was referring to talent. we've already lost 2 of our top ten prospects in a system lacking depth i (at least in the upper minors). i'd rather not give up cotts, rauch, reed, or honel which i'm guessing would happen at this point if we made another move. someone like ponson or even suppan won't come cheap in terms of the players we give up in my opinion.

I think a lot of that depends on how much salary we're willing to take on.

WhiteSox = Life
07-27-2003, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
The Sox offense is NOT the 2nd worst right now. We've scored more runs than Detroit, Cleveland and Tampa Bay, and going by OPS we're better than Oakland as well. The offense is finally starting to click.

Think happy thoughts... :smile:

I hope the offense can continue on clicking. We could've used some of that clicking, or in some games, double-clicking, earlier in the year.

Happy thoughts and being a White Sox fan usually mix as well as oil and water...

But, despite an 8-game win streak being snapped, I'm rather happy, as long as they don't lose the series to Tampa Bay.

Take what like throws at you and if it makes you happy, be happy. If it makes you sad, be sad. But, happiness or sadness only one day at a time. It just might be easier that way.

:smile:

DrCrawdad
07-27-2003, 07:54 AM
What about Brian Cooper?

http://www.charlotteknights.com/images/Headshots/cooper.gif

Or Felix Diaz?

http://www.charlotteknights.com/images/Headshots/diaz.gif

WillieHarris12
07-27-2003, 08:38 AM
DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ DIAZ !!!!!!

Tragg
07-27-2003, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
I agree. Especially since we've taken on limited salary for Alomar and Everett, I really would like to see KW go out and spend some dough to snag someone good.

I want to see us spend some dough so we don't give up what's left of the farm for whomever we get. Supposdly not picking up salary is the reason why we seem to give up twice the talent whenever we want a player (on the other hand, we seem to get less talent AND pick up salary when we are the dumpers, ahem ray durham).
Well, we've given up enough of our farm this year - time to pick up salary. But with negotiating skills of KW + BIG competition for a pitcher, I suspect that = getting raked over the coals again.

DrCrawdad
07-27-2003, 08:57 AM
CHARLOTTE KNIGHTS PITCHING STATS

WillieHarris12
07-27-2003, 09:42 AM
I don't get why we haven't brought up Cooper. A year younger than the 30 year old Porzio, he isn't really risking his career.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2003, 12:56 PM
Once again Jeremy is worried about the "promising" "superstar" future of the White Sox.

You'd think by now he'd have learned the future NEVER is promising for the Sox. I'd think the past 44 years would have taught him that.

WIN NOW DAMMIT! Screw the "future."

Lip

joecrede
07-27-2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Once again Jeremy is worried about the "promising" "superstar" future of the White Sox.

You'd think by now he'd have learned the future NEVER is promising for the Sox. I'd think the past 44 years would have taught him that.

WIN NOW DAMMIT! Screw the "future."

Lip

The thing is no trade guarantees "winning now". Why make a bad trade for the sake of making a trade? Think the Red Sox would like to have Jeff Bagwell back? They did "get" Larry Andersen though . . .

Lip Man 1
07-27-2003, 04:23 PM
True no trade guarantees winning now... HOWEVER when you actually have a decent chance you better take every opportunity you can to increase your chances of pulling it off.

What's the point of making trades when you are in fourth place, fifteen games out?

There's an obvious need here for a fifth starter, two years from now you might have more and even more pressing needs that simply can't be fixed due to budget constraints.

If this is the last piece needed are you going to go "cheap" now? That doesn't make any sense of course this IS the White Sox organization isn't it?

Lip

jeremyb1
07-27-2003, 04:48 PM
it is true that if we take on salary we'll give up less talent. obviously i'm completey in favor of that since its not my money and we don't have a huge payroll by any means. in the case of suppan and ponson though, they would not be salary dumps. suppan makes only about a million dollars on the season and the o's want to resign ponson so we'd give up a lot of talent to acquire either player.

Tragg
07-27-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
True no trade guarantees winning now... HOWEVER when you actually have a decent chance you better take every opportunity you can to increase your chances of pulling it off.

What's the point of making trades when you are in fourth place, fifteen games out?

There's an obvious need here for a fifth starter, two years from now you might have more and even more pressing needs that simply can't be fixed due to budget constraints.

If this is the last piece needed are you going to go "cheap" now? That doesn't make any sense of course this IS the White Sox organization isn't it?

Lip

Last piece needed for what?

To make the playoffs? Maybe. But mortgaging your future to make the playoffs is insane.

To win the WS? No it is not the last piece needed nor is it the most important piece needed. And winning the WS is what mortgaging a future may be worth.

voodoochile
07-27-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Last piece needed for what?

To make the playoffs? Maybe. But mortgaging your future to make the playoffs is insane.

To win the WS? No it is not the last piece needed nor is it the most important piece needed. And winning the WS is what mortgaging a future may be worth.

Yes, but no one can guarantee that this player or that player will cause a team to win it all. All a team can do is try and make the playoffs and hope things go their way. Certainly there is enough offensive talent on this team and the starting pitching, 1-4, is as strong as I can remember since 1983 and maybe the strongest of my life in terms of talent and experience.

If the team doesn't make the playoffs, they obviously cannot win the WS. However, this team will give other teams problems in the playoffs. It is talented and experienced. There are plenty of veteran leaders and a good portion of the starters have played in the playoffs or even the WS already.

Now is the time to make a trade to ensure the team has everything it needs to get to the playoffs. If they win or lose then, they can at least claim they gave it a shot.

BTW, what do you feel is a more important acquisition than a reliable 5th starter at this point in time?

Lip Man 1
07-27-2003, 10:00 PM
Just my opinion but I think the 1994 team had the best rotation 1-5, (McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez, Bere, Sanderson) followed very closely by 1983 (Hoyt, Dotson, Bannister, Burns, Koosman)

Lip

voodoochile
07-27-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just my opinion but I think the 1994 team had the best rotation 1-5, (McDowell, Fernandez, Alvarez, Bere, Sanderson) followed very closely by 1983 (Hoyt, Dotson, Bannister, Burns, Koosman)

Lip

I didn't think about 1994. I guess I try to erase it from my memory. Certainly it would be my second choice. I still think the top three of this years team are better than those other teams in terms of talent. I am probably biased by my "other" memories of Hoyt on that matter. If Garland continues to improve and impress, the top four from this team can pitch with anyone...

adsit
07-27-2003, 10:09 PM
Any thoughts on Scott Schoeneweis? He wants to get into a starting role again, and Anaheim's rumored to be shopping him. I think he's got "#5 starter" written all over him, when you consider all you want from a fifth man is the ability to take you about six innings in.

Is he worth our interest? I haven't seen enough of him this year to know, though his stats line looks decent. Last year, he was solid.

Dave

kempsted
07-27-2003, 11:15 PM
Sure it would be great to have 5 great starters but as everyone knows you don't need 5 starters in the post season. So the real question is what is wrong with ... Dan Wright. They had a wining record in games he pitched. He pitched in 11 games and got 5 quality starts. OK 6 bad games is not good so he needs to improve but he still has pitched better than many teams number 4 or 5 starters.

Here were some box scores to remember


IP H R ER BB SO
May 14 vs. Bal 6.1 6 1 1 1 4
May 25 vs. Detroit 7 6 3 3 1 7
In fact no start in June wasn't horrible
June 5 vs. Ari 6 3 2 2 1 4
June 14 vs SD 5.1 6 4 4 3 4
June 19 vs BOS 6 1 3 2 4 4
June 27 vs. Cubs 6 1 1 1 4 3

Of these we only lost the game against Boston on June 19th. Danny went out with a tie. Guess who gave up the run and lost the game.... Koch. We even one with one of his two games in July even though he only pitched 4.

The point? What you want from a 5th starter is one who will keep you in the game most of the time. He showed that in June but we gave up on him immediately in July. Sure he had a horrible game July 11 and was sent down immediately. John Garland had a game where he pitched 2.2 innings, Buerle pitched one at 3.1 innings,
Colon pitched on 3.2 and even Loaiza had a 3.2 inning game.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2003, 11:55 PM
Kemp let's put it this way.

Unless the Sox lock down the 5th starter spot they won't get to the post season and get the chance to bump that person from the rotation.

The 5th starter is going to get another eight or nine starts this season, the combo of Porzio, Wright, Rauch etc MAY give the Sox a chance to win three or four of those games (in my opinion).

Getting a bona fide experienced starter like Jeff Suppan MAY give the Sox a chance to win five or six of those games.

One or two games could very well decide this division. Do you REALLY want to take that chance?

Wright is finished for this season. Mentally he's screwed up and has been since he hurt his arm in spring training.

Lip