PDA

View Full Version : Trade Complete


southpaw40
07-24-2003, 03:54 PM
Some of the posters on the MLB board are reporting that the players the Rangers took in exchange for Everett are Webster, Francisco and Rupe.

joecrede
07-24-2003, 04:22 PM
I was hoping Rupe wouldn't be part of it, but the key hits Everett got last night and Monday make it easier to take.

hold2dibber
07-24-2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by southpaw40
Some of the posters on the MLB board are reporting that the players the Rangers took in exchange for Everett are Webster, Francisco and Rupe.

Wow - I'm surprised that they could take Webster and still get 3 guys. IIRC, the deal was that there was a list of 6 or 7 guys split into an "A" list and a "B" list; if the Rangers picked someone off the A list, they'd only get a total of 2 players (so they could only get 3 if they took them all from the B list). Am I mis-remembering this? If not, I guess Webster must have been on the B list. Is Francisco the guy the Sox got in the Lofton trade?

chosk8
07-24-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Wow - I'm surprised that they could take Webster and still get 3 guys. IIRC, the deal was that there was a list of 6 or 7 guys split into an "A" list and a "B" list; if the Rangers picked someone off the A list, they'd only get a total of 2 players (so they could only get 3 if they took them all from the B list). Am I mis-remembering this? If not, I guess Webster must have been on the B list. Is Francisco the guy the Sox got in the Lofton trade?

Francisco is the guy we got from Boston in the Howry deal. Once again, I think we gave up too much. As I look around the league at other deals, it just seems we give up so much more than everyone else. Last year we give up Ray Durham and get back Jon Adkins. This year we get Carl Everett and give up Webster, Rupe and Francisco. Something is just not right.

voodoochile
07-24-2003, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by chosk8
Francisco is the guy we got from Boston in the Howry deal. Once again, I think we gave up too much. As I look around the league at other deals, it just seems we give up so much more than everyone else. Last year we give up Ray Durham and get back Jon Adkins. This year we get Carl Everett and give up Webster, Rupe and Francisco. Something is just not right.

The Sox gave up extra players so the Rangers would pay Everetts salary. Same with Alomar and the Mets. It was 3 minor leaguers for Everett at league minimum.

Daver
07-24-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by chosk8
Francisco is the guy we got from Boston in the Howry deal. Once again, I think we gave up too much.

Francisco has been plagued with injuries throughout his career,and Webster is a long way from being an MLB player,this is his third year of organized baseball period,the Sox did not give up much considering the cash considerations they got from the Rangers.

doublem23
07-24-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by chosk8
Francisco is the guy we got from Boston in the Howry deal. Once again, I think we gave up too much. As I look around the league at other deals, it just seems we give up so much more than everyone else. Last year we give up Ray Durham and get back Jon Adkins. This year we get Carl Everett and give up Webster, Rupe and Francisco. Something is just not right.

The Cubs took on Ramirez's and Lofton's salaries, that's why they gave up fewer prospects. The Sox are not eating those salaries.

duke of dorwood
07-24-2003, 08:45 PM
:KW

Nobody guts a farm system like me

Daver
07-24-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood


Nobody guts a farm system like me

Gut the farm system?

So far this year KW has traded one player that will be in the majors by next year,and that was last years wasted first round draft pick.He got a veteran gold glove second baseman for him.

baseballboy
07-24-2003, 09:27 PM
The Cubs took on Ramirez's and Lofton's salaries, that's why they gave up fewer prospects. The Sox are not eating those salaries.

Also from what I heard the player to be named later in the cubs deal is supposed to be a pretty good prospect. That is what Hendry said. It is not just a throw in. Are Lofton and Ramirez really that good anyway?

RKMeibalane
07-24-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by daver
Gut the farm system?

So far this year KW has traded one player that will be in the majors by next year,and that was last years wasted first round draft pick.He got a veteran gold glove second baseman for him.

Agreed. Ken Williams actually did a nice job making these trades. I'm not at all concerned about about these deals coming back to bite the Sox in the ass, because they didn't give up that much.

I've never liked KW, but he deserves a lot of credit for trying to make the team better. If the Sox miss the postseason this year, it won't be because of anything he's done. Besides, there are still plenty of others to blame...

:jerry

"What did I do?"

:reinsy

"Just for that, I'm raising ticket prices again. Hahahahaha!"

RKMeibalane
07-24-2003, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by baseballboy
Also from what I heard the player to be named later in the cubs deal is supposed to be a pretty good prospect. That is what Hendry said. It is not just a throw in. Are Lofton and Ramirez really that good anyway?

No, they aren't, but the Cubs are getting desperate. Their joy-ride through the NL Central ended after the Sox beat their asses last month, and they're still trying to pick up the pieces.

Tragg
07-24-2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by daver
Francisco has been plagued with injuries throughout his career,and Webster is a long way from being an MLB player,this is his third year of organized baseball period,the Sox did not give up much considering the cash considerations they got from the Rangers.

It is annoying that we never seem to get an edge on paper in these deals. The cash doesn't do much for me, as a non-owner. I'd rather the Sox pay the cash and lose the lesser players. the Cubs, not that they are anyone to emulate, use the opposite approach - they give away nothing but pay the salary.
Oh well, beats getting nothing for Ray Durham AND paying most of his salary.

MHOUSE
07-24-2003, 11:34 PM
6 prospects to rent two players seems like a lot to me. I would have rather eaten a little more contract and save a couple of guys. I just hate that we give up 3 guys in every trade.

gosox41
07-24-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
6 prospects to rent two players seems like a lot to me. I would have rather eaten a little more contract and save a couple of guys. I just hate that we give up 3 guys in every trade.

The Roberto Alomar trade was a good move. Alomar is playing like he cares and hopefully it'll continue. They gave up a .230 hitting A OFer. Almonte is 26 and wasn't ahving that great of a season. He may be a decent reliever at some point but the clock is ticking. Ring will probably be good. But he is a reliever, so he's probably going to be good for 80 innings a year at most. He's not unhittable or anything.

The Everett trade concerns me if those are the final players. I like Rupe and thinkg Webster has potential do be a decent CFer, something the Sox lack. I honestly don't know much about Francisco. The fact that Everett isn't a true center fielder is what concerns me most about the trade.

Bob

doublem23
07-24-2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
6 prospects to rent two players seems like a lot to me. I would have rather eaten a little more contract and save a couple of guys. I just hate that we give up 3 guys in every trade.

Be careful how you throw that "prospect" word around. Who have we given up? Webster had talent, but word was he was very raw... Ring was a first round pick, but was a minor league reliever (not high on the "Future in the MLB" totem pole).

Everett and Alomar are starting to hit.. These were two pretty good deals. We basically just moved some crap (Edwin Almonte) out of the way. Once Williams gets a few more drafts in and some of his picks start really progressing, the farm system will be SOLID.

MisterB
07-25-2003, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
The Everett trade concerns me if those are the final players. I like Rupe and thinkg Webster has potential do be a decent CFer, something the Sox lack. I honestly don't know much about Francisco. The fact that Everett isn't a true center fielder is what concerns me most about the trade.

Bob

The CF situation concerns me too. Borchard aside, we've gone from not having another legitimate CF prospect above Low-A ball to not having a legitimate CF prospect above Rookie ball. By all accounts Reed can't handle CF. Borchard has been playing through a wrist problem all season so God only knows if he's making any progress at the plate (he sure isn't drawing more walks), hopefully he's at least getting better in the field. And we won't even talk about the likes of Chad Durham.

hold2dibber
07-25-2003, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
:KW

Nobody guts a farm system like me

While it is true that the Sox have given up 6 players in the Alomar and Everett deals, there are a couple of factors to keep in mind. First, as others have noted, the Sox haven't given away any of their best prospects (except, arguably, Ring) in these deals. Ring and Webster are the only two I'm sad to see go, but there are plenty of other players in the system I would have been MUCh sadder to lose.

Also, don't forget that KW stocked the farm system last year during the season. IIRC, he picked up a total of 6 players in the Lofton, Durham, Alomar, Jr., and Howry deals last year. Arguably, that gave the franchise some extra depth to be able to deal minor league players this year.

maurice
07-25-2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by chosk8
Last year we give up Ray Durham and get back Jon Adkins. This year we get Carl Everett and give up Webster, Rupe and Francisco. Something is just not right.

Originally posted by voodoochile
The Sox gave up extra players so the Rangers would pay Everetts salary. Same with Alomar and the Mets. It was 3 minor leaguers for Everett at league minimum.

IIRC, we paid Durham's salary and should have gotten more than Adkins. I'd LOVE to know what other teams were offering.

Alomar and Everret were fine deals on KW's part, but they'd be even better deals if JR wasn't such a cheap . . . um . . . fellow.

MHOUSE
07-25-2003, 01:49 PM
I like getting Alomar the best. He's a solid 2nd baseman and he's hitting very well which is great; especially in the 1-2 spots of the lineup. Everett just added to the logjam of COF/DH types that we all ready have plenty of. It's nice to have his bat in the lineup, but he's not a true CF and he doesn't address any long-term problem other than provide a little pop which we should have had enough of to begin with. Alomar might resurrect his career and give us a good few more years. Everett will just be another wrong answer to the CF problem and another player for JM to tinker with.

As far as what we gave up, Ring seems to be the biggest name being a first round draft pick and I would like to see our #1 picks get a little more time to pan out than be dealt so soon. Almonte wasn't having a good year and is 26. The Mets might use him in the bigs a few more times this season so we'll soon know what we're missing (or not). Salvo was a throw-in and his Single-A numbers aren't great at all. Francisco had great #s at Single-A (7-3 3.56 ERA), but I heard he had arm problems? Rupe's numbers were solid also and Webster was the one CF prospect we had anywhere near AAA other than Borchard who hasn't impressed. Overall I think between the two trades we gave up too much and I would rather eat some contract and save Ring or Webster.

Ring, Webster, Rupe, Francisco, Almonte, Salvo would be the order I put those guys in for who's toughest to lose. But at least none of our top prospects went. Let's hope some of these draft picks pan out or the system is pretty barren.

Gumshoe
07-25-2003, 02:28 PM
Mo, you were dogging me before and you insinuate that about JR? Haha! I love it though, and your posts of late have been solid.

The Everett deal is very disturbing because he is NOT A CF. The only way the deals were worth making is if the Sox not only win the division, they have to win the first series and have an ALCS shot. Then it'll be worth it. I like the Alomar deal, but what will that matter unless we at least get to the ALCS as well? Those guys are gone and that will have meant less time for guys like Rowand or Miles to show they can play on a consistent basis.

That said, I hope Robbie keeps it going. I think he's the best 2B of all time. Carl? He's gotta continue to hit to prove his worth.

G

maurice
07-25-2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Webster was the one CF prospect we had anywhere near AAA other than Borchard who hasn't impressed.

CF remains a question mark, but OF generally is the Sox deepest (non-pitching) position in the minor leagues by a wide margin. Webster was playing low-A ball in the Sally league. Reports suggest that he's very raw, so he probably should spend the rest of the year at that level. By the time Webster is in AAA, both Borchard and Reed should make the majors or bust. As a relatively polished college player, I expect Anderson to pass Webster and get to AAA (or skip AAA and join the Sox) sooner, assuming his wrist is okay.

Let's hope some of these draft picks pan out or the system is pretty barren.

Well, we still have Borchard, Hummel, Rivera, Wright, Rauch, Diaz, Stewart, Sanders (apparently), Ginter, Munoz, Reed, Cotts, Pacheco, Dunn, Meaux, Yan, Honel, Wing, etc. in the minors, all of whom are closer to the majors than the three guys we sent to Texas. If even half of those guys contribute at the ML level, the Sox system is doing pretty damn good.

maurice
07-25-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
Mo, you were dogging me before and you insinuate that about JR?

There are plenty of good reasons not to like JR. His religion is not one of them.

Originally posted by Gumshoe
I think [Alomar is] the best 2B of all time.

Eddie Collins and Rogers Hornsby were pretty good, too. :D:

MarkEdward
07-25-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by maurice

Eddie Collins and Rogers Hornsby were pretty good, too. :D:

How about Joe Morgan (bad commentator, great player).

gosox41
07-26-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by maurice
IIRC, we paid Durham's salary and should have gotten more than Adkins. I'd LOVE to know what other teams were offering.



Probably not very much. KW made it quite clear the Sox had to dump salary as quickly as possible. Not a good way to build a trade market.

Bob

maurice
07-28-2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
How about Joe Morgan (bad commentator, great player).

Morgan is comparable to Alomar. Both Collins and (especially) Hornsby were better. Career numbers:

Hornsby: .358 AVE / .434 OBP / .577 SLG
Collins: .333 AVE / .424 OBP / .429 SLG
Alomar: .302 AVE / .374 OBP / .446 SLG
Morgan: .271 AVE / .392 OBP / .427 SLG

doublem23
07-28-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE

Ring, Webster, Rupe, Francisco, Almonte, Salvo would be the order I put those guys in for who's toughest to lose. But at least none of our top prospects went. Let's hope some of these draft picks pan out or the system is pretty barren.

Royce Ring? The relief pitching prospect?

The Sox system was so loaded a few years ago, of course it had to recycle and go "barren" for a few years... For as much heat as Kenny takes, he does do drafts pretty well (outside of drafting Ring in the first round last year... STUPID STUPID STUPID)... Anyways, give him a couple of years; the system will be the talk of the town again.