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View Full Version : I still think fire manuel


soxwon
07-23-2003, 09:25 PM
ok ok even after we win the division and beat the yankees in the playoffs- we must still fire Manuel.
we are beetween a rock and...... in this situation, we win Manuel Stays, We lose he goes. but of course we dont want to lose.
tonights win over the jays shows we dont give up.
like i said after the season, we MUST still fire Jerry do you agree?
da reverand

RKMeibalane
07-23-2003, 09:28 PM
You'll get no argument from me. Manuel definitely needs to go. His tinkering is killing the Sox. They have managed to win several games recently in spite of his tinkering, not because of it. The sooner he's gone, the better off the Sox will be.

Meixner007
07-23-2003, 09:29 PM
I agree. I was about to start a post CONGRATULATING JM (for all those people who say we never give him credit when he does a good thing) on his moves tonight. I too would have brought in Marte, but you shouldn't be rewarded for doing the right thing. He's screwed too many games this year.

Another point. Give Koch one more try. I hate the guy but think what he did today. 2 straight outs...followed by a single....stolen base, and basehit. That's perfect execution in manufacturing a run. I still don't like him, but we're gonna need him if we're going to advance...unless we get someone to help out in the pen.

RKMeibalane
07-23-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Meixner007
I agree. I was about to start a post CONGRATULATING JM on his moves tonight. I too would have brought in Marte, but you shouldn't be rewarded for doing the right thing. He's screwed too many games tonight.

Another point. Give Koch one more try. I hate the guy but think what he did today. 2 straight outs...followed by a single....stolen base, and basehit. That's perfect execution in manufacturing a run. I still don't like him, but we're gonna need him if we're going to advance...unless we get someone to help out in the pen.

I understand what you're saying, but there's one small problem with using Koch. He is incapable of holding onto leads. The only time he can be used is when the Sox are up by several runs, and the opposition has shown no signs of coming back. Otherwise, he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the pitcher's mound, because he continues to blow games when he's out there.

MarqSox
07-23-2003, 09:51 PM
Hey guys ... the point is to win, and if we're winning and then we fire Manuel, isn't that doing exactly what we despise? That is, we would break what's fixed.

A win is a win is a win. Doesn't matter who's at the helm.

Daver
07-23-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Hey guys ... the point is to win, and if we're winning and then we fire Manuel, isn't that doing exactly what we despise? That is, we would break what's fixed.

A win is a win is a win. Doesn't matter who's at the helm.


I disagree,nothing is "fixed" with Manuel at the helm.

It is too late to fire Jerry now anyway,that move should have been made at the end of June.

Meixner007
07-23-2003, 09:54 PM
I'm not saying we fire him now. All I'm saying is that he shoudl have either been fired earlier in the season...or fired when/if we go in a tailspin/end of the year.

MarqSox
07-23-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Meixner007
I'm not saying we fire him now. All I'm saying is that he shoudl have either been fired earlier in the season...or fired when/if we go in a tailspin/end of the year.

For me, if this team makes it to the ALCS, he gets another year reprieve. Just my opinion.

LuvSox
07-23-2003, 10:14 PM
Imagine where the team would be if Jerry would've been fired earlier in the year.

Meixner007
07-23-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
For me, if this team makes it to the ALCS, he gets another year reprieve. Just my opinion.

Absolutely Positively Not if i were in charge. But that's probably why I'm not. If we make it to the playoffs he'll finish out his contract. Otherwise it's adios.

TornLabrum
07-23-2003, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Hey guys ... the point is to win, and if we're winning and then we fire Manuel, isn't that doing exactly what we despise? That is, we would break what's fixed.

A win is a win is a win. Doesn't matter who's at the helm.

It's not fixed when you put Koch in down by one run in the 8th inning.

voodoochile
07-23-2003, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
It's not fixed when you put Koch in down by one run in the 8th inning.

Or PH with Willie Harris, ever...

TornLabrum
07-23-2003, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Or PH with Willie Harris, ever...

I was trying to forget that.

voodoochile
07-23-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I was trying to forget that.

I only wish I could...

MHOUSE
07-24-2003, 12:11 AM
I hate this dilemma. I want to make the playoffs, but that means that to KW and management all will be forgotten and JM will stick around. If we don't make it then he's thankfully gone. It's too late now, but I wish we could win big and still lose Manuel. He seems like a great guy, but he's an awful manager. This group of numbskulls running the club will see the team win and give him a 10 year contract or something.

fuzzy_patters
07-24-2003, 01:10 AM
I see what you guys are saying. Tonight, Jerry Manual really mismanaged the bottom of the ninth. Delgado is the best left handed hitter in the American League, so our brilliant leader leaves the right-handed Tom Gordon in to face him. Then, Jerry brings in the lefty one batter later. Isn't that backwards? Don't you bring in the lefty to face the left-handed slugger? Not in our manager's world. When he flipped his coin it came up heads, so Gordon stayed in to face Delgado. Just brilliant.

DonkeyKongerko
07-24-2003, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
I see what you guys are saying. Tonight, Jerry Manual really mismanaged the bottom of the ninth. Delgado is the best left handed hitter in the American League, so our brilliant leader leaves the right-handed Tom Gordon in to face him. Then, Jerry brings in the lefty one batter later. Isn't that backwards? Don't you bring in the lefty to face the left-handed slugger? Not in our manager's world. When he flipped his coin it came up heads, so Gordon stayed in to face Delgado. Just brilliant.

I thought so too but FSN popped up Delgado's career numbers against Gordon. Lifetime I think he had 2 hits in some 20+ at bats.

Meixner007
07-24-2003, 01:58 AM
Yeah, something like 2-28. Not good at all. But i have no problem with manuel's decisions tonight. I just don't think they should be commended. This is what SHOULD have happened.

VeeckAsInWreck
07-24-2003, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by Meixner007
i have no problem with manuel's decisions tonight. I just don't think they should be commended. This is what SHOULD have happened.

Jerry made the right decisions, and hardly anybody here wants to give him credit. But if the the result were a loss, you people would blame it all on him.
At this point in the season you stick with your manager, unless he gives a speech about his race being able to take the heat. :o:

gosox41
07-24-2003, 06:36 AM
Originally posted by Meixner007
I agree. I was about to start a post CONGRATULATING JM (for all those people who say we never give him credit when he does a good thing) on his moves tonight. I too would have brought in Marte, but you shouldn't be rewarded for doing the right thing. He's screwed too many games this year.

Another point. Give Koch one more try. I hate the guy but think what he did today. 2 straight outs...followed by a single....stolen base, and basehit. That's perfect execution in manufacturing a run. I still don't like him, but we're gonna need him if we're going to advance...unless we get someone to help out in the pen.

Don't use Koch at all in any game within 5 runs either way. He's awful. He's got no fastball and it shows no signs of coming back. Every time I see him pitch I turn off the TV or if the game is at home I usually get up and walk around the park. Ican't stand this guy.

Bob

kempsted
07-24-2003, 09:22 AM
Yeah we won. It was great it was fun but we still won despite Manuel not because of him. The Gordon Marte decision was fine either way. But Koch in a close game an Willie Harris to pinch hit for Sandy Alomar in the 9th was stupid. Put him in as a pinch runner if you want speed but Alomar and Harris bat from the same side and Alomar is a better hitter. Harris of course proved Manuel wrong and grounded out. Thankfully our hitters have started hitting (or getting hit :smile: ) at the right time.

Iwritecode
07-24-2003, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Don't use Koch at all in any game within 5 runs either way. He's awful. He's got no fastball and it shows no signs of coming back. Every time I see him pitch I turn off the TV or if the game is at home I usually get up and walk around the park. Ican't stand this guy.

Bob

Especially against Toronto...

Koch allowed 34 earned runs last year, and of those 34 runs, 24 came against 2 teams. Texas and Toronto.

and that was back when he HAD his fastball...

:firejerry

Gumshoe
07-24-2003, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by kempsted
Yeah we won. It was great it was fun but we still won despite Manuel not because of him. The Gordon Marte decision was fine either way. But Koch in a close game an Willie Harris to pinch hit for Sandy Alomar in the 9th was stupid. Put him in as a pinch runner if you want speed but Alomar and Harris bat from the same side and Alomar is a better hitter. Harris of course proved Manuel wrong and grounded out. Thankfully our hitters have started hitting (or getting hit :smile: ) at the right time.

Well put. I can't totally disagree with giving Koch a chance in the 9th. If you NEVER use him, that's just another wasted arm. Oh wait ... they do that to Glover. Strike that point. Hahaa.

As for the Willie Harris thing, oh yes, that is a crucial point. If he is pinch running for Thomas, he could have scored on that dumb wild pitch while intentionally walking Everett was occurring.

Finally, remember, although we've won 6 in a row, we've still only beat one good team, and one away, and BARELY --- last night. Manuel's judgments will come against KC and Minne the next time around. It's win/win, because if we win of course us sox fans like it, but if we lose KW and JM are gone (we think). I agree though, it bothers me that if we do make the playoffs then everyone will make excuses for KW and JM ...

Gumshoe

bobj4400
07-24-2003, 10:03 AM
Manuel managed the game last night fine until the bottom of the eigth. Then he made two absolutely unforgiveable moves: he brought in Koch in a close game, then pinch hit the .194 hitting (before last night's ground out) Willie Harris to start the ninth. Somehow the Sox overcame these moves (something they never would have done earlier in the year, btw) to win the game. I posted here earlier this season that they wouldnt win the division with Koch pitching on a regular basis and Manuel as the manager...I am hopeful that I am wrong, but still feel that I will end up being proven right.

Gumshoe
07-24-2003, 01:09 PM
the combination that is evident in your two points, that being the JM - KW connection, is seemingly insurmountable considering all things

Absolutely moronic at times. We'll see though, they'll have ample shot at KC. I know they'll have a chance, it's whether or not JM is really as bad as we think he is ... or if guys like Carl Everett contribute at all offensively ...what a big hit by Carlos last night after down 0-2 in the count.

Does KW make another move? Paulie is heating up.

Gumshoe