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ChiWhiteSox1337
07-22-2003, 10:02 PM
I was flipping through the channels and Jim Hendry was on the cubs broadcast, they just traded Jose Hernandez, Matt Bruback(I think) and some minor leaguer to the pirates for Kenny Lofton and Amaris Ramirez. I hope Kenny lofton plays like he did in may, june and july last year for the cubs :D

Viva Magglio
07-22-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by ChiWhiteSox1337
I was flipping through the channels and Jim Hendry was on the cubs broadcast, they just traded Jose Hernandez, Matt Bruback(I think) and some minor leaguer to the pirates for Kenny Lofton and Amaris Ramirez. I hope Kenny lofton plays like he did in may, june and july last year for the cubs :D

I don't think this move will make as much as difference as the media or Cub fans will think. Houston and St. Louis are still better than the Cubs overall, IMO, and the Astros and Cardinals have yet to make their deals for the stretch run.

MarqSox
07-22-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by ChiWhiteSox1337
I was flipping through the channels and Jim Hendry was on the cubs broadcast, they just traded Jose Hernandez, Matt Bruback(I think) and some minor leaguer to the pirates for Kenny Lofton and Amaris Ramirez. I hope Kenny lofton plays like he did in may, june and july last year for the cubs :D

This is a good trade for the Flubs, but too little too late, I think.

Tragg
07-22-2003, 10:16 PM
Ramirez hit a lot of homers 2 years ago, but not so many recently. His OBP isn't much. Don't know about his D. But he's got to be a better player than lenny harris.
Lofton is lofton and should help them.

valposoxfan
07-22-2003, 10:17 PM
Overall, I think this trade will help the Cubs. I'm just not looking forward to hearing about it for the next four days straight...I hope they turn out to be McGriff's...

Viva Magglio
07-22-2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Ramirez hit a lot of homers 2 years ago, but not so many recently. His OBP isn't much. Don't know about his D. But he's got to be a better player than lenny harris.
Lofton is lofton and should help them.

Ramirez has 23 errors so far this season. And I think Lofton will hinder whatever chances the Cubs have.

JJAustin69
07-22-2003, 10:18 PM
Good trade for the Cubs but I doubt it will be enough. Sam-Me myself and I, will still ruin their chances.

Vsahajpal
07-22-2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Ramirez hit a lot of homers 2 years ago, but not so many recently. His OBP isn't much. Don't know about his D. But he's got to be a better player than lenny harris.
Lofton is lofton and should help them.

His offensive potential is quite high, but he's a horrible fielder, horrible. He just turned 25 though, it's a pretty nice deal for the Cubs pending the PTBNL.

FJA
07-22-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Ramirez hit a lot of homers 2 years ago, but not so many recently. His OBP isn't much. Don't know about his D. But he's got to be a better player than lenny harris.
Lofton is lofton and should help them.

Ramirez is alright, but, IIRC, he's been a major clubhouse problem in the past ... with Sham-me turning up his music again, and with Lofton, who also isn't the greatest clubhouse guy, we could have some major clashes.

Also, Lofton has been between mediocre and bad since May.

This will help the Flubs, but I will be extremely surprised if it makes them even close to as good as the Astros. I think that team is about to run away with the NL Central, considering the Morris injury and the Flubs' brutal schedule.

Vsahajpal
07-22-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by FJA
Ramirez is alright, but, IIRC, he's been a major clubhouse problem in the past ... with Sham-me turning up his music again, and with Lofton, who also isn't the greatest clubhouse guy, we could have some major clashes.

Also, Lofton has been between mediocre and bad since May.

This will help the Flubs, but I will be extremely surprised if it makes them even close to as good as the Astros. I think that team is about to run away with the NL Central, considering the Morris injury and the Flubs' brutal schedule.

I like it because of it's simultaneous buildican/nowacrat ramifications. They're still in the race, and it improves the club at 3B and CF. A lot of people are all over Houston, however they have virtually no money to spend, and they're 43-43 against teams not managed by Bob Boone. The Cardinals pitching is BRUTAL! Fassero's their starter tonight. And they have less money to spend than Houston. If they trade a young stud like Drew to acquire pitching, I wouldn't be disappointed.

That's the nowacrat. As for the buildican, Lofton's salary is cleared next year, as Corey will come back. Ramirez just turned 25 and has a chance to fill that void at 3B for a while.

doublem23
07-22-2003, 10:31 PM
Overall, a good deal for the Cubs... Could help them mingle around the top of that division for a while.

Go Cardinals!

Vsahajpal
07-22-2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Overall, a good deal for the Cubs... Could help them mingle around the top of that division for a while.

Go Cardinals!

Aren't there any Astros fans here? Man.

duke of dorwood
07-22-2003, 10:35 PM
AS usual, they give up NOTHING

Daver
07-22-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Aren't there any Astros fans here? Man.

I have a casual interest in the Stro's Vic,I lived near Houston for two years.

Vsahajpal
07-22-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
AS usual, they give up NOTHING

<corso>Not so fast my friend</corso>

The ever ominous PTBNL lurks...and they have to pay Ramirez $6.5 next year.

jeremyb1
07-22-2003, 10:38 PM
the player to be named has to be something pretty good. ramirez doesn't have tremendous offensive stats but for a 25 year old third basemen with several years left on his deal, they're outstanding. hernandez is nothing and i don't believe bruback is much either. it'll be interesting to see who the player to be named is.

duke of dorwood
07-22-2003, 10:40 PM
Might be Kelton

Vsahajpal
07-22-2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by daver
I have a casual interest in the Stro's Vic,I lived near Houston for two years.

Yeah, I guess I'm in the same boat (you're probably drivin' it though. How was I supposed to know outboard motors only operate in water :) )

Joel Perez
07-22-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Aren't there any Astros fans here? Man.

I live only 2 hours away off of I-10, plus went to many an Astros game during my years in high school....Go 'Stros in NL Central!

Lance Berkman would be a King in a Sox uniform.

doublem23
07-22-2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
AS usual, they give up NOTHING

Well, they kind of got nothing, so it works out.

soxwon
07-22-2003, 10:54 PM
how do the cubs keep gettin decent players for crap, they didnt give up much at all. the sox must be suckers to have to deal decent prospects to get something good.
i just dont figure out why?

doublem23
07-22-2003, 10:55 PM
As for the Astros, I have a partial interest in them... Nothing more than the fact that they are a direct foe of the Cubs. The two teams from the NL Central I always try and pull for are the Cardinals (Cubbie rivals, I like St. Louis and would probably become a Cardinal fan if something ever happened to the Sox) and the Reds because I was on the "Reds" in Little League in 1990 when the Reds won the World Series. Good times.

Tragg
07-22-2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Aren't there any Astros fans here? Man.

The Astros are my favorite national league team. It used to be the Cubs, until I found religion on WSI.

LuvSox
07-22-2003, 11:04 PM
Another blockbuster move by the Cubbies. No way in hell do Lofton and Soso peacefully co-exist.

Mammoo
07-22-2003, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
This is a good trade for the Flubs, but too little too late, I think.

If it's too late for the Cubs it must be over for the Sox! :(:

JJAustin69
07-23-2003, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
The Astros are my favorite national league team. It used to be the Cubs, until I found religion on WSI. I have no love for the disASTROS but will pull for them against the Cubs any day. Prefer to have the Cards win that division.

WhiteSoxWinner
07-23-2003, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by soxwon
how do the cubs keep gettin decent players for crap, they didnt give up much at all. the sox must be suckers to have to deal decent prospects to get something good.
i just dont figure out why?

Ahhhh, Don't be too sure my friend. Think the Flubs would do the Alfonseca/Clement deal again knowing they were giving up future All-Star Dontrelle Willis? Maybe the Pirates did their homework and PTBNL will also shine.

kermittheefrog
07-23-2003, 12:08 AM
This actually looks like a really good move for the Cubs. Ramirez is a slightly better than average hitter which makes him a lot better than anyone they have put at third this year. Plus he's only 25. Lofton is still a decent hitter and a threat on the bases and he's much better than Tom Goodwin. This doesn't make me happy at all, the Cubs have improved significantly at two positions. For essentially nothing.

doublem23
07-23-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by soxwon
how do the cubs keep gettin decent players for crap, they didnt give up much at all. the sox must be suckers to have to deal decent prospects to get something good.
i just dont figure out why?

Outside of the Ritchie deal (although Fogg and Wells ain't that good, either), what "big name" prospect have we dealt away? Problem isn't the fact that we're giving up anyone good, we just ain't getting anyone solid (outside of Colon).

MarkEdward
07-23-2003, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
This actually looks like a really good move for the Cubs. Ramirez is a slightly better than average hitter which makes him a lot better than anyone they have put at third this year. Plus he's only 25. Lofton is still a decent hitter and a threat on the bases and he's much better than Tom Goodwin. This doesn't make me happy at all, the Cubs have improved significantly at two positions. For essentially nothing.

I agree with this post. Ramirez won't have another 2001, but he should be above replacement level for the rest of his contract. Lofton is better than anything they have now.

The Pirates really had two choices (regarding this deal): pay Ramirez's salary and get some actual prospects in return, or give the Cubs Aramis' contract and get nothing in return. I'm guessing the PTBNL won't turn out to be much.

For what it's worth, The Pirates are my favorite NL Central team (I play as the Bucs in my OOTP league and I'm a big Brian Giles' fan)

MHOUSE
07-23-2003, 12:51 AM
Cubs get a young 3B and a renta-center fielder until Patterson is ok next season. They get a good bat potentially in Ramirez and IIRC he's not a FA yet and he could always pan out as filling their long-time hole at 3B. Both are upgrades over Goodwin and Lenny Harris/whomever. If you factor in the first trade they give up Bellhorn, 2 pitching prospects, and the PTBNL for Lofton and Ramirez. Not so bad, but I always liked Bellhorn.

As for the Pirates they are on the way down. 4 players out in the last few days. They got a good pitcher in Billy Lyon tho and maybe some of the prospects will pan out.

MHOUSE
07-23-2003, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
For what it's worth, The Pirates are my favorite NL Central team (I play as the Bucs in my OOTP league and I'm a big Brian Giles' fan)

OOTP league? Is that a PS2 game or something. I have Allstar Baseball '04 and it's awesome. I have a D-Rays season going and I think it's a rebuilding year.....

MarkEdward
07-23-2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
OOTP league? Is that a PS2 game or something. I have Allstar Baseball '04 and it's awesome. I have a D-Rays season going and I think it's a rebuilding year.....

Out Of The Park Baseball. It's a text-based simulation game. It's very, very excellent. You can control your team's ticket prices, make trades, sign free agents, run the minors (A-ball to AAA), and even manage in-game.

By the way, I know what you mean by re-building. Try winning when you have Jason Kendall (the OBP under .300 Kendall), Randall Simon, Pokey Reese, and Jack Wilson in your everyday line-up (though I am at .500 through 100 games and only about three back of the first place Cubs).

kermittheefrog
07-23-2003, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Out Of The Park Baseball. It's a text-based simulation game. It's very, very excellent. You can control your team's ticket prices, make trades, sign free agents, run the minors (A-ball to AAA), and even manage in-game.


I love OOTP. I'm in two leagues right now and I've turned the Sox and D-Rays into dynasties GMing against the AI. In one league we started in 1970 and drafted 10 rounds of players before the CPU filled in the rest of the rosters. I'm absolutely murdering the league through 2 months. I got my pick of the guys who get on base and I have a .380 team OBP. It also helped that I traded for Willie Mays who is having a career revival at age 39, a lot like he did in real life (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mayswi01.shtml) only better.

In my other league I'm the current Angels in the year 2004. Not going well after one month. I'm 10-15 and the pitching is atrocious. Although it's partially the D's fault because I intentionally ignored D when making moves. Looks like I didn't make the right move there...

Also: I get too excited about OOTP.

btw if anyone wants the link to the OOTP website (http://www.ootpbb.com) .

DrCrawdad
07-23-2003, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by soxwon
how do the cubs keep gettin decent players for crap, they didnt give up much at all. the sox must be suckers to have to deal decent prospects to get something good.
i just dont figure out why?

$$$, follow the $$$.

The Sox had to give up more for Alomar/Everett because the Sox didn't pick-up much if any of their salary. So the Sox had to cough up more in prospects. The Cubbies are taking the salaries.

Good trade for the Cubbies. However now when Cubbie fans talk about Valentin's errors you can say that Ramirez has 2X as many as Valentin.

bobj4400
07-23-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
Overall, I think this trade will help the Cubs. I'm just not looking forward to hearing about it for the next four days straight...I hope they turn out to be McGriff's...


Better not listen to the Cub morning show with Murph today then, as he has drank at least 10 cups of Cub kool-aid this morning and is talking like it is just a matter of time until the Cub get back to first and into the playoffs...

He even said something about Lofton being a great addition b/c he is such a 'great' postseason performer and he will shine for the Cubs in October.

Hangar18
07-23-2003, 09:31 AM
Once again, the Young Thug Cubbies waited for the Little Old Pirates Lady to walk out of the bank and Knocked her down and
took the monthly pension check....
I didnt know Cam Bonifay was GM'ing the Bucs again...

Hangar18
07-23-2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Better not listen to the Cub morning show with Murph today then, as he has drank at least 10 cups of Cub kool-aid this morning and is talking like it is just a matter of time until the Cub get back to first and into the playoffs...

He even said something about Lofton being a great addition b/c he is such a 'great' postseason performer and he will shine for the Cubs in October.

was sickening to listen to them getting their post-season Rotation figured out. To murphs mild credit...he kept mentioning the Sox 5 gm winning streak....but then Never Really talked about it. he may have been trying to talk sox, just didnt happen.
Dont know why im giving him credit.....

bobj4400
07-23-2003, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
was sickening to listen to them getting their post-season Rotation figured out. To murphs mild credit...he kept mentioning the Sox 5 gm winning streak....but then Never Really talked about it. he may have been trying to talk sox, just didnt happen.
Dont know why im giving him credit.....


I am about to turn the dial to ESPN...Kornheiser is better than this crap. He just jumped down a caller's throat for criticizing the trade; then 'accused' him of being a Sox fan, like it is a bad thing or something.

Risk
07-23-2003, 10:08 AM
Did this trade help the Flubs?? On paper, it certainly did, but in reality, it probably won't. The reality is that the Cubs are not a play off caliber team since their real strength is in their starting rotation. However, with the exception of Prior (on the DL, with shoulder/arm problems) and Wood, the other three starters are extremily mediocre to bad. Another problem that the Flubs have is that they did nothing to improve the bullpen, which is obviously their weakest aspect. Especially since the NL Central's two top teams, Houston and St. Louis, have two very good offensive line-ups. As we have seen before, the way to beat the Cubs is to knock out Prior and Wood quickly, bring in that shoddy a## bullpen of theirs and bombs away.

Picking up Lofton is an improvement over Goodwin, but not much, especially since we all know that he was great for a month and a half, but than floundered. As the season has progressed, its more of the same from Lofton as he started at hot out of the gates and has for the last two months been mediocre to bad. Ramirez is a young, decent hitter, but a head case and cancer in the Clubhouse, and an atrioucious fielder to boot.

Another thing that St. L and Houston has over the Flubs is that they have a serious mental edge (us Sox fans know this--Oakland and up until this year Minnesota). When they play the Cubs, they play as if they expect to sweep them and if they don't, their embarrased. That is another reason why I don't believe that this trade is going to mean much of anything. At best, the Flubs still are third in the weak NL Central.

I apologize for the long diatribe, but they way that Murph, Chimp Carey and Stoner have been acting made it sound as if they should just mail the pennant to the North Side Chumps. I refuse to believe what these three jag bags and all the rest of the media whores are harping that this will put the Cubs over the top.
BS in barbeque sauce.

Risk

D'Angelo F Death
07-23-2003, 10:17 AM
Good trade for the Cubs. I mean great trade. Ramirez is so much better than Hernandez and Lenny Harris. Lofton's better than Goodwin. I can't believe the Bucs GM went out and plugged the two glaring holes in a division rivals' lineup. The Pirates are only 9 games out...jeesh. What a message to send to your team. Idiot.

gosox41
07-23-2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by D'Angelo F Death
Good trade for the Cubs. I mean great trade. Ramirez is so much better than Hernandez and Lenny Harris. Lofton's better than Goodwin. I can't believe the Bucs GM went out and plugged the two glaring holes in a division rivals' lineup. The Pirates are only 9 games out...jeesh. What a message to send to your team. Idiot.

The last part was supposed to be iin teal, right? With approzimately 60 games remaining and 4 teams to climb over I'd bet ever penny I had that the Pirates wouldn't win the NL Central in 2003 if they hadkep those 2 guys.

It was a great trade for the Cubs, assuming the player to be named later isn't a stud prospect. If it was then I'd question it. Lofton only plays when interested (which he may be udner Baker.) Ramirez is good, but no Lowell. He has had one great year but is still 25.

Bob

harwar
07-23-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by bobj4400
I am about to turn the dial to ESPN...Kornheiser is better than this crap. He just jumped down a caller's throat for criticizing the trade; then 'accused' him of being a Sox fan, like it is a bad thing or something.

Its about what i expected this morning.Murph so excited that he can hardly talk(he was singing in the background)and nothing but absolute positives about the trade(no interviews from pitts.saying those guys may not be the greatest).

typical calls..

Murph.."your on the air,what do you think about the trade?"

Caller.."its great,we're going to the world series"

Murph.."good morning,your on the air,what do you think about the trade?"

Caller.."its great,we're going to the World Series" ...

gosox41
07-23-2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by harwar
Its about what i expected this morning.Murph so excited that he can hardly talk(he was singing in the background)and nothing but absolute positives about the trade(no interviews from pitts.saying those guys may not be the greatest).

typical calls..

Murph.."your on the air,what do you think about the trade?"

Caller.."its great,we're going to the world series"

Murph.."good morning,your on the air,what do you think about the trade?"

Caller.."its great,we're going to the World Series" ...

And of course when someone doesn't like a trade it's obviously a Sox fan posing as a Cub fan. Happened to one caller who said the Score was sounding to much like WGN radio in hyping up the trade. Gue said he was a Cub fan and didn't think the trade was all that great. A few minutes after the caller hung up Murph made a comment about he had to be a Sox fan.

Bob

siugrad25
07-23-2003, 11:06 AM
This was a nice trade by the Cubs. They gave up very little and got some decent talent in return. Will it be enough to surpass the Cards/Astros? Probably not. But it should keep them within striking distance. I am waiting, however, to see one of those two teams really start playing 'great' baseball. The Cubs have the Astros this weekend, so it should be a nice little indication on where they're really at. And my main grief about this series is that they're taking my Saturday WGN game away from me for the Cubs... damn them... I know it's only against Tampa, but it's still nice to see them on TV once in a while, I missed yesterday's game...

ihatethecubs
07-23-2003, 11:08 AM
hahaha on cubs.com the headline is "Cubs make blockbuster trade"

SoxOnTop
07-23-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Risk


Picking up Lofton is an improvement over Goodwin, but not much, especially since we all know that he was great for a month and a half, but than floundered. As the season has progressed, its more of the same from Lofton as he started at hot out of the gates and has for the last two months been mediocre to bad.

Actually, I think JM grossly mismanaged Lofton last year (surprise surprise) which lead to his horrendous June and July. He should have sat him and rested his shoulder. I hate to say it, but Dusty will get every ounce out of Lofton. Enough for the playoffs? I doubt it, but these are 2 significant upgrades for the Chubs considering the borderline AA clowns they had at CF and 3rd base. I'm glad I'm not in Chi-town and have to listen about Chubby fans talking about the playoffs they'll still miss.....

Jerko
07-23-2003, 12:27 PM
Lofton may be better than Goodwin, but he is not as good as Patterson was becoming, so essentially, even with this trade, the Cubs are weaker than they were when the season started. Ramirez is OK at best. I know they have God and Jesus in their rotation, but even they can't offset the power of the losing Cub tradition.

SoxOnTop
07-23-2003, 12:36 PM
Amen to that!

kermittheefrog
07-23-2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
Lofton may be better than Goodwin, but he is not as good as Patterson was becoming, so essentially, even with this trade, the Cubs are weaker than they were when the season started. Ramirez is OK at best. I know they have God and Jesus in their rotation, but even they can't offset the power of the losing Cub tradition.

Since Ramirez is so much better than what they had at third base it offsets the exchange of Lofton for Patterson. It might even make the Cubs a better team than the one that started the season.

SoxOnTop
07-23-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Since Ramirez is so much better than what they had at third base it offsets the exchange of Lofton for Patterson. It might even make the Cubs a better team than the one that started the season.

Except that both Ramirez and Lofton are defensive liablities. Lofton is a significant downgrade defensively in center from Patterson. I was shocked at what aweful chances Lofton took in CF with the Sox last year. I guess I always thought he was excellent in the field becuase of his athletecism, but after seeing him day in and day out he is scary. And not in a good way....

Lip Man 1
07-23-2003, 01:43 PM
You get Lofton AND Ramirez for garbage PLUS Matt Morris goes on the DL for 3 to 6 weeks. Sounds like a good night for the Cubs.

By the way Rob Neyer at ESPN.com today said that the Sox should have been looking to get Ramirez. He also broke down what each 'contender" needs. Here's his A.L. report:

Summing up the American League:


Team Need

Yankees No. 5 starter
Red Sox No. 5 (or No. 4) starter
Royals Big bat, bullpen help
Twins DP combo, starting pitcher
White Sox Lady Luck
Mariners Third baseman, left fielder
Athletics Outfielder, first baseman

What he means by "lady luck" for the Sox is that Konerko and Crede need to start playing like they are capable of. He also said if the Royals don't get another hitter and bullpen help they'll finish in 2nd or 3rd place (and he's from K.C.)

Lip

doublem23
07-23-2003, 01:47 PM
Then Rob Neyer is a moron.

And the Royals suck.

MarkEdward
07-23-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop
Except that both Ramirez and Lofton are defensive liablities. Lofton is a significant downgrade defensively in center from Patterson. I was shocked at what aweful chances Lofton took in CF with the Sox last year. I guess I always thought he was excellent in the field becuase of his athletecism, but after seeing him day in and day out he is scary. And not in a good way....

Isn't Patterson done for the season anyway? It's not like acquiring Lofton will hinder Patterson's playing time. When Corey comes back next year, Lofton will most likely be gone.

Gumshoe
07-23-2003, 02:00 PM
It's a good trade for the Cubs ... once we find out who that last mystery man is. The offensive addition is undeniable.

Sox On Top, you had it right. I saw Lofton make some really bad plays that led me to believe he is REALLY old now. He's a CF like Everett; Rowand is better than both.

Sox go for Ramirez? WHY. Crede just needs time, he'll be fine, and that's another terrible consideration. More clutter for our team and less defense? Stupid. Crede will hit his with all the rest. He's a good player. The Patterson loss kills.

Suddenly the AL Central is looking equal to or better than the NL Central ...


Gumshoe

WinningUgly!
07-23-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Better not listen to the Cub morning show with Murph today then, as he has drank at least 10 cups of Cub kool-aid this morning and is talking like it is just a matter of time until the Cub get back to first and into the playoffs...

He even said something about Lofton being a great addition b/c he is such a 'great' postseason performer and he will shine for the Cubs in October.

It's pretty funny how Murph has nothing but good things to say about Lofton now. I seem to remember him describing him last year with words like "past prime", "thug" & "clubhouse cancer".

Windsock.

JUGGERNAUT
07-23-2003, 02:06 PM
Given that Willis looks like the best talent in comparison to everyone in that trade & is w/out question the lowest cost for that talent, you can't judge a sCrub trade until the prospect they trade plays in the majors.

Historically the sCrubs have had their pockets cleaned in such trades. I imagine this will follow the same pattern.

Lady luck = trade with sCrubs. :D:

SoxOnTop
07-23-2003, 02:35 PM
Did someone just mention Dontrell "whatchutalkinabout" Willis?

Iwritecode
07-23-2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
You get Lofton AND Ramirez for garbage PLUS Matt Morris goes on the DL for 3 to 6 weeks. Sounds like a good night for the Cubs.

By the way Rob Neyer at ESPN.com today said that the Sox should have been looking to get Ramirez. He also broke down what each 'contender" needs. Here's his A.L. report:

Summing up the American League:


Team Need

Yankees No. 5 starter
Red Sox No. 5 (or No. 4) starter
Royals Big bat, bullpen help
Twins DP combo, starting pitcher
White Sox Lady Luck
Mariners Third baseman, left fielder
Athletics Outfielder, first baseman

What he means by "lady luck" for the Sox is that Konerko and Crede need to start playing like they are capable of. He also said if the Royals don't get another hitter and bullpen help they'll finish in 2nd or 3rd place (and he's from K.C.)

Lip

So in other words the Sox have the talent, they just need the guys to start playing up to expectations. Konerko is looking like he might finally (hopefully) be coming out of his first-half slumber. Crede hasn't been horrible but he could be better.

DirtySouthsider
07-23-2003, 06:59 PM
My blood pressure was rising this morning listening to Murph refer to Ramirez as an "RBI Machine"........NO!.....Manny Ramirez, Carlos Delgado, Pujols....THEY are RBI machines. 67 rbi's at this point make you a good player.....nothing really special. Otherwise we could be calling C Lee an RBI machine too!!

chisox56
07-23-2003, 11:00 PM
If cubs fans think lofton and ramirez are going to lead there team to a world series they have to be really dumb. Lofton numbers have been falling all year. He started out hot and now has been down. He isn't much of an improvement and he won't be that great of a leadoff hitter. Ramirez seems to always want to hit the longball so now the cubs have two sammy sosa's. Ramirez's glove isn't the greatest either.

hose
07-23-2003, 11:08 PM
This was a great trade for the Cubs. Lofton fills their need for a center fielder and lead off man and Ramirez solidifies the hole at third with potential big time power.

I think the Cubs are serious contenders for the NL Central now.
The only time the Cubs have won in the past is when they had a lead off man that ignites the offense.

LuvSox
07-23-2003, 11:09 PM
I still have to ask myself: Who gives a ****? It's the Cubbies.

WhiteSoxWinner
07-23-2003, 11:18 PM
Aramis Ramirez appears to be working out well so far. An error and DP in the same inning. Yep, he'll fit in well on the North Side.

maurice
07-24-2003, 01:22 PM
Combined 0-for-8 with an error and 5 LOB.

:gulp:

JUGGERNAUT
07-25-2003, 04:23 PM
Mueller (BOSOX):
335 AB, 178 TB, 143 OB, 211 OUTs, 0 SB

Ramirez (sCrUB):
383 AB, 169 TB, 138 OB, 278 OUTs, 1 SB

Hmmm, seems to me the sCrUBs would have been better off with their previous 3B.

jabrch
07-25-2003, 05:17 PM
He will fit in fine with the Blubs. He is no improvment over Mueller. And Lofton is a mediocre CF/leadoff hitter. He won't win you much, but he won't kill you. I will wait on judging this trade to see who they gave up as the PTBNL. If it is Bobby Hill or Francisco Beltran, then it is a very bad trade for them. Hill should be their IF of the future (Grudz makes 5.5 mil and is old) and Beltran is a great RP in the future.


But like someone else said...Who cares? Its the Dubs.

jabrch
07-25-2003, 05:21 PM
The ever ominous PTBNL lurks...and they have to pay Ramirez $6.5 next year.


Two major probs...

Now next year the Cubune has an excuse to not spend more $$$. They have 26mm tied into to old OFs. Having 2 great young SPs is nice, but they need a whole lot more than that.