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Meixner007
07-22-2003, 01:35 AM
From the Cubune:

"I'm at a different point in my career as a hitter," Thomas said Monday. "I'm not going to be a free swinger, but I'm going to let it go a lot more. Quit worrying about the average and be a damaging hitter. When you get hot, max it out and quit trying to do things you did when you were younger.

"If I can get a ball close enough to me, I'm going to pull it. That's just the way it is. I don't care to go to right field anymore. From center to left is where I'm putting the ball right now."

Linky (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-030721soxthomas,1,640744.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Isn't this the mentality we're trying to get AWAY from right now. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Frank fan, but sooner or later this isn't gonna keep happening. We need to get away from this mentality. IMHO this is purely selfish on Frank's part. Hopefully he'll change his statement/approach at the plate.

A.T. Money
07-22-2003, 01:46 AM
Hey, if it's working...it's working. Frank has neglected the inside part of the plate for 5 years now. If he's looking in there to pull it, it's all good as far as I'm concerned. On Sunday I saw him swing one handed at an outside pitch and pulled it right over the third basemen's head. I'll take that too.

Meixner007
07-22-2003, 01:48 AM
All i'm saying is that right field is a very important part of the game. He needs to play the team game. Not the Frank game. If he's hot, fine. When that stops, I hope he goes back to playing the team game.

LASOXFAN
07-22-2003, 01:57 AM
I almost believed him too when I first read it. But this is Frank Thomas we're talking about - a smart, smart baseball player. He borders on paranoid when it comes to another teams' book on him. I think his statement is right up there with the best of the White House's half-truths over the last few months. Frank's planting a seed. If other teams take the bait and start pitching him outside again he'll murder them.

I think Frank has a career in politics waiting for him!

_________________________


Caray: Jimmy, you're nuts.

Piersall: Yeah Harry, and I got the papers to prove it!

Meixner007
07-22-2003, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I almost believed him too when I first read it. But this is Frank Thomas we're talking about - a smart, smart baseball player. He borders on paranoid when it comes to another teams' book on him. I think his statement is right up there with the best of the White House's half-truths over the last few months. Frank's planting a seed. If other teams take the bait and start pitching him outside again he'll murder them.

I think Frank has a career in politics waiting for him!

_________________________


Caray: Jimmy, you're nuts.

Piersall: Yeah Harry, and I got the papers to prove it!

Hey, I never thought of it that way. I hope you're right.

gosox41
07-22-2003, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by Meixner007
From the Cubune:

"I'm at a different point in my career as a hitter," Thomas said Monday. "I'm not going to be a free swinger, but I'm going to let it go a lot more. Quit worrying about the average and be a damaging hitter. When you get hot, max it out and quit trying to do things you did when you were younger.

"If I can get a ball close enough to me, I'm going to pull it. That's just the way it is. I don't care to go to right field anymore. From center to left is where I'm putting the ball right now."

Linky (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-030721soxthomas,1,640744.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Isn't this the mentality we're trying to get AWAY from right now. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Frank fan, but sooner or later this isn't gonna keep happening. We need to get away from this mentality. IMHO this is purely selfish on Frank's part. Hopefully he'll change his statement/approach at the plate.

I cringed when I read this. Hopefully he's just planting a seed as was mentioned elsewhere and doesn't have a bad case of Hall of Fameitis.

Bob

TornLabrum
07-22-2003, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Meixner007
From the Cubune:

"I'm at a different point in my career as a hitter," Thomas said Monday. "I'm not going to be a free swinger, but I'm going to let it go a lot more. Quit worrying about the average and be a damaging hitter. When you get hot, max it out and quit trying to do things you did when you were younger.

"If I can get a ball close enough to me, I'm going to pull it. That's just the way it is. I don't care to go to right field anymore. From center to left is where I'm putting the ball right now."

Linky (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-030721soxthomas,1,640744.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Isn't this the mentality we're trying to get AWAY from right now. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Frank fan, but sooner or later this isn't gonna keep happening. We need to get away from this mentality. IMHO this is purely selfish on Frank's part. Hopefully he'll change his statement/approach at the plate.

I remember him saying almost the exact same thing a couple of months ago. Is he recycling his quotes (or is the Cubune)?

B. Diddy
07-22-2003, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I cringed when I read this. Hopefully he's just planting a seed as was mentioned elsewhere and doesn't have a bad case of Hall of Fameitis.

Bob

I hope so as well. I worry that he's just trying to inflate his power numbers to make himself look more attractive on the free agent market or for the HOF.

The thing that I always respected about Frank was that he didn't mind taking a walk or blooping a single to right field. Hell, at the game Saturday night, he reached out and blooped an RBI single to shallow left while down in the count.

I seriously hope that he hasn't caught Sosaitis and tries to crush everything... because then everything will go to right field (as popups). And a free-swinging Frank isn't what this team needs. We already have a free-swinging Carlos and a free-swinging Jose. We need disciplined Frank who can get on base and drive in runs playing small ball as well as long ball.

SoxOnTop
07-22-2003, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I almost believed him too when I first read it. But this is Frank Thomas we're talking about - a smart, smart baseball player. He borders on paranoid when it comes to another teams' book on him. I think his statement is right up there with the best of the White House's half-truths over the last few months. Frank's planting a seed. If other teams take the bait and start pitching him outside again he'll murder them.

I think Frank has a career in politics waiting for him!

_________________________


Caray: Jimmy, you're nuts.

Piersall: Yeah Harry, and I got the papers to prove it!

I'm sorry. Are we talking about Frank Thomas? The human PR nightmare? The man who couldn't use the media to his benefit to save is first born child? Franks never been able to minipulate the media and I doubt he is now.

Dude's just speaking his mind as usual. Whatever pops in there he likes to mention to the writers so they can sop it up like a biscuit. Although I believe he meant what he said, I wouldn't put much stock in it. Just like the weather, wait 30 min. and Franks mood is bound to change.

kevingrt
07-22-2003, 12:05 PM
Whatever he;ps us win, I am all for!

hold2dibber
07-22-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I almost believed him too when I first read it. But this is Frank Thomas we're talking about - a smart, smart baseball player. He borders on paranoid when it comes to another teams' book on him. I think his statement is right up there with the best of the White House's half-truths over the last few months. Frank's planting a seed. If other teams take the bait and start pitching him outside again he'll murder them.

I think Frank has a career in politics waiting for him!

I'm about as big a Frank Thomas fan as there is on the planet. But I consider him to be a dumb, dumb, dumb baseball player. He reminds me of Nuke from Bull Durham. When he starts thinking too much, he gets himself all screwed up. I pray that he was just talking off the top of his head and realizes what a STUPID idea this is. Frank does need to turn on and damage those inside pitches. But that should just be part of his approach. This team needs OBP in the worst way - he should be hitting to right and taking his walks, as always, but when they try to bust him inside, crush one of his patented screaming shots over the left field wall down the line. And he should wear garters and breathe threw his eyelids.

Hangar18
07-22-2003, 02:09 PM
I think he was messing with the media

Meixner007
07-22-2003, 02:23 PM
I take it all back if he's gonna hit the ball like he just did in the first

voodoochile
07-22-2003, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I'm about as big a Frank Thomas fan as there is on the planet. But I consider him to be a dumb, dumb, dumb baseball player. He reminds me of Nuke from Bull Durham. When he starts thinking too much, he gets himself all screwed up. I pray that he was just talking off the top of his head and realizes what a STUPID idea this is. Frank does need to turn on and damage those inside pitches. But that should just be part of his approach. This team needs OBP in the worst way - he should be hitting to right and taking his walks, as always, but when they try to bust him inside, crush one of his patented screaming shots over the left field wall down the line. And he should wear garters and breathe threw his eyelids.

Frank has been doing this all season long, or at least since he got hot. He did the same thing in 2000 when he had an MVP quality year. The days of Frank being a RF line drive hitter are long gone. He hasn't been successful doing that in a while. Frank has struggled with the outside pitch since he went to the new stance but anything from 3/4 in he just kills and that is fine.

It hasn't effected his walk totals and his OBP remains high. It also puts pressure on the pitcher to not make mistakes.

booter14
07-22-2003, 06:15 PM
Provided he means what he says for the first time ever, then the Tinkerer needs to move him to the 4 or 5 spot in the order. Maggs should be in the 3 spot anyway.

Thomas' bat speed has declined so much in the last five years that he needs to swing for the fences in order to keep up. When he was in his prime his pitch recognition was better than anyone in baseball, probably as good as Teddy ballgame in his prime. Frank now has trouble picking up offspeed and breaking pitches, and his swing on those pitches is awful.

This statement is a sign that Frank is now willing to adapt his swing to his current ability. He needs to dial it up on every pitch and hopefully find some mistakes. Unfortunately, Frank is now your classic mistake hitter, but one who can still draw 100-110 walks per year. If he can maintain a .265-280 average with 35-45 homers and 100+ rbis, then its all good. His high batting avg days are over. Its that or talk to Barry's "pharmacist".

voodoochile
07-22-2003, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by booter14
Provided he means what he says for the first time ever, then the Tinkerer needs to move him to the 4 or 5 spot in the order. Maggs should be in the 3 spot anyway.

Thomas' bat speed has declined so much in the last five years that he needs to swing for the fences in order to keep up. When he was in his prime his pitch recognition was better than anyone in baseball, probably as good as Teddy ballgame in his prime. Frank now has trouble picking up offspeed and breaking pitches, and his swing on those pitches is awful.

This statement is a sign that Frank is now willing to adapt his swing to his current ability. He needs to dial it up on every pitch and hopefully find some mistakes. Unfortunately, Frank is now your classic mistake hitter, but one who can still draw 100-110 walks per year. If he can maintain a .265-280 average with 35-45 homers and 100+ rbis, then its all good. His high batting avg days are over. Its that or talk to Barry's "pharmacist".

You want to move the guy with the highest OBP on the team lower in the order? Leave well enough alone. He is hitting fora solid average, for power, drawing walks and driving in runs.

doublem23
07-22-2003, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by booter14
Provided he means what he says for the first time ever, then the Tinkerer needs to move him to the 4 or 5 spot in the order. Maggs should be in the 3 spot anyway.


Frank likes hitting 3rd... No sense in fixing what ain't broke.

Chisoxfn
07-23-2003, 02:10 AM
Am I the only one who likes these comments?

For years I've watched Frank and seen a lot of pitches where it seems like he's thinking while the pitch is coming and he gets all screwed up.

When it comes to a guy like Frank, I think with his plate discpiline its great to have him up their agressive. He'll get pitches to hit and he will hit the crap out of the ball. Instead of worrying about every pitch he is going to be up their with confidence telling himself if its in this area drive it.

I think we'll see Frank do this and he'll become a much better player then the one of the past two and a half years. I don't think the walk numbers will slip, but the strikeouts will definately increase (Not a good thing) but I think the run production will go way up.

When he was younger his hands were a lot quicker and he could afford the split second pause while he over-analyzed, now he can't.

Just my take from watching Frank this year. A lot of times he gears up, stops real quick and then gets going again and its gets his body and weight out of place and leads to him popping up a lot of pitches.

Konerkoholic
07-23-2003, 02:17 AM
All this talk about Frank's prime years is making me really sad for not watching baseball when I was a wee lad back in the early to mid 90's. I wish I had seen him because he must've been SOOO good. :(:

booter14
07-23-2003, 12:32 PM
You want to move the guy with the highest OBP on the team lower in the order? Leave well enough alone. He is hitting fora solid average, for power, drawing walks and driving in runs.

No, I want to move the guy with the highest slugging percentage to the clean-up spot. Wait, its the same guy.

People have to make their mind-up about Frank, including Tinkerer and the Hitting Coach Du Jour. Is it more important for Frank to get on base or to clear bases? IMO, Frank has reached a stage where he needs to be more of a slugger. Magglio should be your guy in the three spot because his bat has more life. With Frank behind him, Maggs would also see much better pitches.

The problem with Frank is this: he sees too many first and second pitch fastballs right down Broadway that he can no longer pull the trigger on. He is a mistake-pitch hitter. I'm not saying he can't hit a fastball, but he needs to guess right in order to keep it in play. Maggs can keep up with anybody, and he hurts pitchers from right-center to left-center just like Frank did 5-6 years ago.

Like I said before, Frank's transformation is a good thing. The manager needs to recognize this also. Barry moved from 3 to 4 a couple years ago. I think it worked out OK.

voodoochile
07-23-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by booter14
No, I want to move the guy with the highest slugging percentage to the clean-up spot. Wait, its the same guy.

People have to make their mind-up about Frank, including Tinkerer and the Hitting Coach Du Jour. Is it more important for Frank to get on base or to clear bases? IMO, Frank has reached a stage where he needs to be more of a slugger. Magglio should be your guy in the three spot because his bat has more life. With Frank behind him, Maggs would also see much better pitches.

The problem with Frank is this: he sees too many first and second pitch fastballs right down Broadway that he can no longer pull the trigger on. He is a mistake-pitch hitter. I'm not saying he can't hit a fastball, but he needs to guess right in order to keep it in play. Maggs can keep up with anybody, and he hurts pitchers from right-center to left-center just like Frank did 5-6 years ago.

Like I said before, Frank's transformation is a good thing. The manager needs to recognize this also. Barry moved from 3 to 4 a couple years ago. I think it worked out OK.

I don't know what you are seeing, but Frank's bat speed looks alright to me. He has been very quick through the zone on inner half fastballs which is why his homeruns are all flying out to LF instead of all over the park. It may not be as quick as it was when he was 27, but he isn't exactly slow up there.

As to your slg/OBP argument, I admit it has merit, but I think you leave him in the 3 slot so the boppers behind him have more people to drive in. If his OBP starts to drop, then maybe you switch them, but guys like Magglio and Everett won't reach base as much as Frank does and thus Frank will have less people to drive in than they will.

Of course, that is just IMO.

RKMeibalane
07-23-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I don't know what you are seeing, but Frank's bat speed looks alright to me. He has been very quick through the zone on inner half fastballs which is why his homeruns are all flying out to LF instead of all over the park. It may not be as quick as it was when he was 27, but he isn't exactly slow up there.

I agree. Frank doesn't seem to be having any trouble with pitches on the inner-half of the plate. If anything, he has more trouble with outside pitches than those at other locations. Frank's plate-coverage, IMO, isn't as good as it was a few years ago. Part of this is probably due to aging, and part of it is also due to the fact that pitchers have been pounding Frank inside since the beginning of 1998. This is why we don't see Frank hitting balls with authority to right field that often. He used to be to hit a lot of right-center, rightfield home runs, but those are a rarity these days.

Originally posted by voodoochile
As to your slg/OBP argument, I admit it has merit, but I think you leave him in the 3 slot so the boppers behind him have more people to drive in. If his OBP starts to drop, then maybe you switch them, but guys like Magglio and Everett won't reach base as much as Frank does and thus Frank will have less people to drive in than they will.

Of course, that is just IMO.

I agree again. Frank has an excellent batting eye at the plate. His ability to lay off several close pitches is one of the reasons why he's been so successful as hitter. His willingness to take walks has helped him tremendously over the years. Pitchers know they have to pitch him carefully, because he rarely swings at pitches out of the strike zone.

When Frank is on-base, this makes it easier for Maggs and Everett to get pitches they can hit. After all, no pitcher wants to walk the bases loaded or find himself giving up runs because he walked too many people. Moving Frank to the four spot would only clog up the Sox offense. Maggs doesn't have the plate disclipline that Frank has, so he wouldn't be on base as much in front of Thomas.

JUGGERNAUT
07-23-2003, 02:19 PM
Maggs doesn't have the plate disclipline that Frank has, so he wouldn't be on base as much in front of Thomas. [/B]

BINGO!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!

Who hits in more DP's?
O-E-O MAGGLIO!

Leave Frank where he is.

The question to really ask is :
Is O-E-O worth 9MIL this yr?
Is O-E-O worth 15MIL nxt yr?

SoxOnTop
07-23-2003, 02:24 PM
O-E-O = .300 30 120

Every year he puts these numbers up like clockwork. Are you sure you want to question Mr. Consistancy's value?

Dude's been sleepwalking and is still hitting .298. I can't wait until he heats up!!

JUGGERNAUT
07-25-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop
O-E-O = .300 30 120

Every year he puts these numbers up like clockwork. Are you sure you want to question Mr. Consistancy's value?

Dude's been sleepwalking and is still hitting .298. I can't wait until he heats up!!

Dude only has 62 RBI. He better heat up soon. Only 2 months left!

I'd rather have Beltran at a lot cheaper price:
Beltran:
306 AB, 148 TB, 140 OB, 216 OUTs, 28 SB

Maggs:
378 AB, 210 TB, 160 OB, 263 OUTs, 6 SB

Frank:
335 AB, 185 TB, 167 OB, 243 OUTs, 0 SB

This team would be MUCH better with Beltran's 28 SB's.