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RKMeibalane
07-20-2003, 12:18 PM
2B- Graffanino
CF- Rowand
DH- Thomas
RF- Ordonez
LF- Lee
1B- Konerko
3B- Crede
SS- Valentin
C- Olivo

:jerry

*TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER*

MetalliSox
07-20-2003, 12:20 PM
As soon as that ball cleared the wall, I told my pops, "Alomar will get tomorrow off."
Nostradamus could make a lot of money off this team with Manuel at the helm.

RKMeibalane
07-20-2003, 12:24 PM
That reminds me...

:hurt --------------------------------------> http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/mlb/images/team_logos/50x50/la.gif

voodoochile
07-20-2003, 12:29 PM
Is there anything left to say? How does he justify this crap? Stupid is as stupid does... Maybe he is the troll who keeps reregistering...

:firejerry

Steve Bartman
07-20-2003, 12:34 PM
We must be the only team at this point in the season without a set line-up.

SoxxoS
07-20-2003, 12:39 PM
I really really don't like Jerry Manuel.

TornLabrum
07-20-2003, 01:00 PM
Didn't Manuel have the same lineup (substituting at catcher) last night as he did Firday? We should be grateful for that!

soxruleEP
07-20-2003, 01:07 PM
Now that we won two games ina row we needed to change the line-up. And the three great pl;ays that Alomar made at second base yesterday are more than enough reason to give him a day off after three straight days of playing!

Can no one rid of this man!

ScottySoxFan
07-20-2003, 01:30 PM
He's an idiot. There is nothing more to say than he's a big, fat idiot.

lowesox
07-20-2003, 02:09 PM
Is it just me, or has he used Carl Everett sparingly? This is supposed to be a guy who plays everyday like Maggs and Thomas. After all we're giving up some really good prospects for him.

Why not have your best players out there everyday? Especially when you're 7 games out of first place. This is just stupid.

Our inconsistent offense is attributed to our inconsistent lineups.

voodoochile
07-20-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Is it just me, or has he used Carl Everett sparingly? This is supposed to be a guy who plays everyday like Maggs and Thomas. After all we're giving up some really good prospects for him.

Why not have your best players out there everyday? Especially when you're 7 games out of first place. This is just stupid.

Our inconsistent offense is attributed to our inconsistent lineups.

:jerry
"I like to give Rowand at bats to stay sharp so that when he is used to replace Everett he is sharp when I am trying to keep him sharp. Does that explain it for you?"

RKMeibalane
07-20-2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
:jerry
"I like to give Rowand at bats to stay sharp so that when he is used to replace Everett he is sharp when I am trying to keep him sharp. Does that explain it for you?"

:jerry

"And by the way, I want to use Frank and Paulie on and off at first base in the second half. Each time one of them starts to struggle, I can just move them back to the field, and prove how smart I am that I figured this out."

jeremyb1
07-20-2003, 03:42 PM
i just can't believe none of you can understand such simple concepts. outside from rowand starting for everett there is no "tinkering" going on in this lineup.

i thought all anyone wanted was one lineup against rightes and another against lefties. this is at least the second game in a row against a lefty in which manuel has sat alomar against a lefty and moved jose down in the lineup. why? here i will post those two hitters righty/lefty splits for the third time in the past few days:

valentin vs. lefties - .141 batting average, .378 ops
valentin vs. righties - .269 batting average, .883 ops

alomar vs. lefties - .161 batting average, .472 ops
alomar vs. righties - .305 batting average, .778 ops

now personally, i'd keep alomar in the lineup against righties instead of valentin, but the fact that manuel has decided to start graffanino who has an .869 ops against lefties compared to .578 vs. righties with a lefthanded pitcher on the hill is common sense and is vital to this teams success.

someone please explain to me how manuel's losing games for us by starting the guy with the .869 ops against lefties instead of the guy with a .472 ops because i'm really confused what the problem is here. is it about putting the best lineup on the field or only the most consistent one?

MarkEdward
07-20-2003, 06:32 PM
White Sox- 10
Tigers- 1

Yup, that tinkering sure did hurt us today...

voodoochile
07-20-2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
White Sox- 10
Tigers- 1

Yup, that tinkering sure did hurt us today...

When Frank, Maggs and Paulie all hit like that, it is hard for another team to overcome. Let's not get all excited because Manuel got lucky one time...

CHISOXFAN13
07-20-2003, 07:22 PM
It must be tough for everyone to give the guy credit.

Enjoy a win for once.

Konerkoholic
07-20-2003, 07:46 PM
I agree with jeremy for the first time i can remember. Graffanino SHOULD start with a lefty on the mound. Rowand has been swinging the bat well in the time he's played recently. Right now, I'd rather see a hot Rowand in there than Carl Everett, who doesn't know how to take a pitch.

RKMeibalane
07-20-2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic
I agree with jeremy for the first time i can remember. Graffanino SHOULD start with a lefty on the mound. Rowand has been swinging the bat well in the time he's played recently. Right now, I'd rather see a hot Rowand in there than Carl Everett, who doesn't know how to take a pitch.

If Rowand is to receive more playing time, that would severely limit the number of at-bats Everett gets, unless Carl is given playing time at another position, such as LF. That probably isn't a good idea, though, because Everett has struggled when batting right-handed, and Carlos Lee has been awful against lefties this season.

Bucktown
07-20-2003, 11:37 PM
Today's lineup is my favorite. Those are the hot bats. We need to run with them. Alomar and Everett can pinch hit until the others cool off or they heat up.

MarkEdward
07-21-2003, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
When Frank, Maggs and Paulie all hit like that, it is hard for another team to overcome. Let's not get all excited because Manuel got lucky one time...

So when we win, Manuel can't take any credit; when we lose, it's all Manuel's fault.

OK, gotcha.

jeremyb1
07-21-2003, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
If Rowand is to receive more playing time, that would severely limit the number of at-bats Everett gets, unless Carl is given playing time at another position, such as LF. That probably isn't a good idea, though, because Everett has struggled when batting right-handed, and Carlos Lee has been awful against lefties this season.

i think the large part of the reason everett has been sitting is that his defense hasn't been particularly good in cf. i can't blame manuel for hesitating to start him in the outfield every game. i think kenny kinda blew it by just assuming everett could get the job done defensively in centerfield. daubach was swinging a hot bat when the deal was made and paully has since rebounded so there doesn't appear to be many at bats for everett at centerfield. we're just going to have to wast his offensive talents or suffer with the subpar defense in center. personally i would sit carlos for everett once every three or four games or if we have faith in rowands ability to hit the rest of the season i'd do my best to move carlos for another starter if possible.

longshot7
07-21-2003, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by Cubsloseagain911
We must be the only team at this point in the season without a set line-up.

Naw. I've been watching the Cardinals lately - you wanna talk about a tinkerer? How's about jerking your best player (Pujols) around every single game - he never knows where LaRussa will play him - not that it has hurt his numbers, mind you.

maybe we're making a mountain out of a molehill on this tinkering thing...

voodoochile
07-21-2003, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
So when we win, Manuel can't take any credit; when we lose, it's all Manuel's fault.

OK, gotcha.

No, I'm just saying that today's tinkering didn't hurt the team, but that doesn't mean tinkering is good. Don't be deceived by one day when the whole team (especially the big guns) tore the cover off the ball.

On days when Frank Maggs and Paulie don't have 3 hits apiece, who do you want in the lineup, Rowand or Everett?

The Graffy move paid off, but I still don't want him platooning with Robbie at 2B everytime there is a lefty on the mound.

jeremyb1
07-21-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The Graffy move paid off, but I still don't want him platooning with Robbie at 2B everytime there is a lefty on the mound.

i agree that he shouldn't platoon only with alomar but i think he needs to be in the lineup and either alomar or valentin needs to be out of the lineup every time we face a lefty starter. you're really shooting yourself in the foot to leave a player that hits lefties as well as graff on the bench while playing two guys that hit lefties as poor as alomar and valentin do. also, i thought the argument against tinkering was that we need a set lineup against lefties and righties, if graff only plays for robbie some of the time against lefties wouldn't that constitute tinkering?

voodoochile
07-21-2003, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i agree that he shouldn't platoon only with alomar but i think he needs to be in the lineup and either alomar or valentin needs to be out of the lineup every time we face a lefty starter. you're really shooting yourself in the foot to leave a player that hits lefties as well as graff on the bench while playing two guys that hit lefties as poor as alomar and valentin do. also, i thought the argument against tinkering was that we need a set lineup against lefties and righties, if graff only plays for robbie some of the time against lefties wouldn't that constitute tinkering?

I don't know about that. I don't think the Sox need a platoon, but that's just me. I don't base every decision purely on stats...