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MarqSox
07-15-2003, 10:19 AM
I don't even know what to say about this one. HORRIBLE! As a Sox fan, I'm used to being insulted in the media, but this one easily takes the cake. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Enjoy.

http://www.sportsbusinessnews.com/index.asp?story_id=28093

raul12
07-15-2003, 10:24 AM
Wow, that guy's an idiot. There's not much more to say than that.

WWIII
07-15-2003, 10:26 AM
I hate how the Sox get trashed by these guys who don't know the stats. In the histories of the Sox and Cubs, I believe the Sox have outdrawn the Cubs in the long run, despite the "dump" that they play in.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing a new ballpark on old Meigs Field.

mandmandm
07-15-2003, 10:29 AM
"The upper deck is too steep, the overall feel ranges from bland to sterile, and the surrounding neighborhoods remain lovely places for robberies and stabbings."

Must be good buddys with Dusty.

Speak your mind.
TLmoore@ajc.com

Irishsox1
07-15-2003, 10:29 AM
If anyone wants to e-mail this writer and tell him what you feel about his article here it is.

TLmoore@ajc.com

voodoochile
07-15-2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by WWIII
I hate how the Sox get trashed by these guys who don't know the stats. In the histories of the Sox and Cubs, I believe the Sox have outdrawn the Cubs in the long run, despite the "dump" that they play in.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing a new ballpark on old Meigs Field.

Hey, Welcome Aboard! :D:

No chance on the parkland ballpark, unfortunately. USCF is the Sox home for the next 20 years...

ssang
07-15-2003, 10:30 AM
This guy deserves to be beaten to within one inch of his life. After that he should be buried alive. This guy gives NO facts. He just spits out stuff that he has no clue about. How is he in journalisim? It's people like this that give the White Sox a bad rep.

raul12
07-15-2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by ssang
This guy deserves to be beaten to within one inch of his life. After that he should be buried alive. This guy gives NO facts. He just spits out stuff that he has no clue about. How is he in journalisim? It's people like this that give the White Sox a bad rep.

or the lack of Sox PR...but point taken!

WhiteSoxWinner
07-15-2003, 10:37 AM
This is an outrage and an insult to Soxdom everywhere, and this Bozo needs to know about. Drop him a line at his email address:

TLmoore@ajc.com

As if we don't have enough negative media from Cubune, Cubland TV, and every other Chicago media out, now we need to get bashed by outsiders? Just wonderful.

By the way, take a look at one of his other columns that he has written for Atlanta Journal Constitution.

Parental advice helping Baker put out flames (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/columns/moore/071203.html)

This guy must be the Atlanta version of Moronotti.

:moron

Hey, there is only one version of me.

Edit: Hey, if you're going to write, keep it civilized, leave out the four letter words or *. All we need is someone to pop-off like that and have this moron use it as further proof that the Sox and Sox fans are worthless.

Hangar18
07-15-2003, 10:41 AM
What Garbage that was. Article full of Speculation and NO FACTS throughout the piece. Just pure dreamy trash. I wanted to see what grade school or high school this person was writing from and am STARTLED and APALLED to see this was supposed to be a Business Article? From a REPUTABLE BUSINESS MAGAZINE?
My gosh, I would be embarrassed if i were SBN.

WhiteSoxWinner
07-15-2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
My gosh, I would be embarrassed if i were SBN.

Them and the Atlanta Journal Constitution where this was also printed:

AJC Link (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/columns/moore/071403.html)

fledgedrallycap
07-15-2003, 10:44 AM
I didn't want to even give the guy the pleasure of getting a rise out of me, but I couldn't resist:

I just wanted to write and let you know your piece of the White Sox was very thought provoking, and not in a good way. I don't even want to waste my time contradicting the content because that was probably the most biased and outrageous article I have ever read. Knowing there are people like you walking the street and voicing their opinion in a newspaper for thousands to read makes me sleep very uneasy. I'm just happy you are a lonely sportswriter and not a political activist. Here is some advice for the next time you write an article: Have an intelligent point and research your topic instead of making things up and going off of popular belief, it makes it much more enjoyable to the reader.

QueerGirrl
07-15-2003, 10:52 AM
Great, another jackass drowning in the Cubs Kool Aid. I won't be happy until Wrigley has crumbled to the ground and the Cubs organization has been exposed for what they really are.....scammers. :angry:

A.T. Money
07-15-2003, 11:02 AM
Has this clown driven in the Bridgeport area lately? After leaving the HR derby, my girlfriend and I were looking at the apartments and homes in the area, and everything is so new there. The neighborhood around the Cell is going to become a Southside version of Wrigleyville in 5-10 years, EASILY! That land around there is a freakin' gold mine.

xil357
07-15-2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
What Garbage that was. Article full of Speculation and NO FACTS throughout the piece. Just pure dreamy trash. I wanted to see what grade school or high school this person was writing from and am STARTLED and APALLED to see this was supposed to be a Business Article? From a REPUTABLE BUSINESS MAGAZINE?
My gosh, I would be embarrassed if i were SBN.

Sure, I love washing my hands in piss after urinating in the troughs at the rat hole of a dump known as the Urinal. Because then I can go back to where I parked only to find that my car has been burglarized and vomited upon by a drunk yuppie who couldn't hold his trendy watered-down beer while being sunburned and oogling women in bikinis when he was hit on the head from a fresh-out-of-the-box baseball thrown back on the field when the backup rookie second baseman from the visiting team hit a cheap 360 foot wind-aided home run into the Sandberg Basket in the right-center power alley while he was talking on his cell phone with a representative from Premium Tickets and agreeing to pay $300 for a bleacher tickets to see the upcoming historic Cubs - Padres series given full page, full color coverage by the newspaper that is owned by the same corporation as the Cubs.

Oh, I forgot, I'm just a pinko conspiracy theorist with a tin-foil hat.

valposoxfan
07-15-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by xil357
Sure, I love washing my hands in piss after urinating in the troughs at the rat hole of a dump known as the Urinal. Because then I can go back to where I parked only to find that my car has been burglarized and vomited upon by a drunk yuppie who couldn't hold his trendy watered-down beer while being sunburned and oogling women in bikinis when he was hit on the head from a fresh-out-of-the-box baseball thrown back on the field when the backup rookie second baseman from the visiting team hit a cheap 360 foot wind-aided home run into the Sandberg Basket in the right-center power alley while he was talking on his cell phone with a representative from Premium Tickets and agreeing to pay $300 for a bleacher tickets to see the upcoming historic Cubs - Padres series given full page, full color coverage by the newspaper that is owned by the same corporation as the Cubs.

Oh, I forgot, I'm just a pinko conspiracy theorist with a tin-foil hat.

Xil that was the greatest post that I have ever read. You forever have my admiration and respect. In response to the AJC article, this guy is a piece of trash. I have honestly never read such an outrageous and shallow article from a respected news medium in my entire life. There is honestly no excuse for that. How that even got past the editor is beyond me. Here's to hoping that someone recognizes him the next time he is on the South Side and makes him remember his article very quickly...

ssang
07-15-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by xil357
Sure, I love washing my hands in piss after urinating in the troughs at the rat hole of a dump known as the Urinal. Because then I can go back to where I parked only to find that my car has been burglarized and vomited upon by a drunk yuppie who couldn't hold his trendy watered-down beer while being sunburned and oogling women in bikinis when he was hit on the head from a fresh-out-of-the-box baseball thrown back on the field when the backup rookie second baseman from the visiting team hit a cheap 360 foot wind-aided home run into the Sandberg Basket in the right-center power alley while he was talking on his cell phone with a representative from Premium Tickets and agreeing to pay $300 for a bleacher tickets to see the upcoming historic Cubs - Padres series given full page, full color coverage by the newspaper that is owned by the same corporation as the Cubs.

Oh, I forgot, I'm just a pinko conspiracy theorist with a tin-foil hat.

I loved that post! That explains all of "Cubdum" in a nutshell. Now I wish the rest of the country would realize this so they can see that we (Sox fans) are right and that they (Cub fans) are wrong. When will there be a some sort of article or news piece that shows the Cubs organizaion and their fans for what they really are (pathetic, sad, and hateable)???

hose
07-15-2003, 11:33 AM
The Yankees seem to have a good image and they play in the Bronx. The Sox have to win and all this other nonsense will go away.

When I was a kid my Gramps had to move out of the great Wrigleyville area because he was getting his 3 flat broken into and was mugged when he went out for his walks. Nobody ever mentioned how great Wrigley Field was or how the Cubs were lovable losers. The place was a dump, now the same area is filled up with transplanted white kids from the suburbs living in new condos and town homes. This transformation took about 25 years, the area around the Cell is doing the same thing. The perception of the South Side is still that of housing projects and crime. This image will change as more new housing and money come pouring into the South Loop and continue to spread out.

The ball park is going to continue to get upgraded with the money from US Cellular and should turn out decent. It will never be the Shrine, but so what. This will all take time, but it has begun and the smart money is being invested in the South Loop.

Anyone wanting to take my comments out of context and say they are racist because I mentioned white kids....go ahead.
The story behind Wrigleyville starts with Depaul/Lincoln Park attracting Yuppies to cheap rehab-able urban housing. This was a complete 180 from the white flight of the 50's , 60's, and 70's.

As the DePaul/LincolnPark land value went up,cheaper properties were sought out and Wrigleyville was next in line. Now that the property is out of sight in Lincoln Park and Wrigleyville the land in the South Loop should follow the same course.

I wish I owned some property in Bridgeport, but I think I'm priced out.

1951Campbell
07-15-2003, 11:37 AM
You know, I almost give up. We're getting bashed by a sportwriter who lives in a town where playoff games don't even selll out. This anti-Sox PR leviathan can't be stopped.

voodoochile
07-15-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by hose
The Yankees seem to have a good image and they play in the Bronx. The Sox have to win and all this other nonsense will go away.

When I was a kid my Gramps had to move out of the great Wrigleyville area because he was getting his 3 flat broken into and was mugged when he went out for his walks. Nobody ever mentioned how great Wrigley Field was or how the Cubs were lovable losers. The place was a dump, now the same area is filled up with transplanted white kids from the suburbs living in new condos and town homes. This transformation took about 25 years, the area around the Cell is doing the same thing. The perception of the South Side is still that of housing projects and crime. This image will change as more new housing and money come pouring into the South Loop and continue to spread out.

The ball park is going to continue to get upgraded with the money from US Cellular and should turn out decent. It will never be the Shrine, but so what. This will all take time, but it has begun and the smart money is being invested in the South Loop.

Anyone wanting to take my comments out of context and say they are racist because I mentioned white kids....go ahead.
The story behind Wrigleyville starts with Depaul/Lincoln Park attracting Yuppies to cheap rehab-able urban housing. This was a complete 180 from the white flight of the 50's , 60's, and 70's.

As the land value went up,cheaper properties were sought out and Wrigleyville was next in line. Now that the property is out of sight in Lincoln Park and Wrigleyville the land in the South Loop should follow the same course.

I wish I owned some property in Bridgeport, but I think I'm priced out.

Actually, most of North Halsted Avenue used to be a bad neighborhood. Jane Byrne started the rehab and when Wrigleyville became Boystown, it really turned the neighborhood around. You are correct that the area around Wrigleyville used to be not so good.

hose
07-15-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by xil357
Sure, I love washing my hands in piss after urinating in the troughs at the rat hole of a dump known as the Urinal. Because then I can go back to where I parked only to find that my car has been burglarized and vomited upon by a drunk yuppie who couldn't hold his trendy watered-down beer while being sunburned and oogling women in bikinis when he was hit on the head from a fresh-out-of-the-box baseball thrown back on the field when the backup rookie second baseman from the visiting team hit a cheap 360 foot wind-aided home run into the Sandberg Basket in the right-center power alley while he was talking on his cell phone with a representative from Premium Tickets and agreeing to pay $300 for a bleacher tickets to see the upcoming historic Cubs - Padres series given full page, full color coverage by the newspaper that is owned by the same corporation as the Cubs.

Oh, I forgot, I'm just a pinko conspiracy theorist with a tin-foil hat.


Don't forget the Dad that out of desperation has to sneak his daughter into the mens room so she doesn't pee in her pants.

I about fell out of my chair laughing when I read about your tin-foil hat in the parking lot section. Whoa was that funny , all good natured of course

A.T. Money
07-15-2003, 11:57 AM
You're dead on hose. DePaul (where I'm an alumni thank you very much), in Lincoln Park, was a hell hole in 1970, but now is a great place to live, and there are a bunch of hotties running around there to boot!

All this stretched north to the Wrigley area as hose pointed out, because people rented apartments off campus.

Some of the new apartments and townhomes are being built right around the Cell now are totally awesome, and it reminds me very much of Lincoln Park and Wrigleyville. In 5-10, the Bridgeport area and south Loop will be rockin.

I think if they redo the area East of the Dan Ryan, that'll be a great place to live too. It has to be right there between the Dan Ryan and Lake Shore Dr.

MarqSox
07-15-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by 1951Campbell
You know, I almost give up. We're getting bashed by a sportwriter who lives in a town where playoff games don't even selll out. This anti-Sox PR leviathan can't be stopped.

Yeah, sure does feel like we're figthing a losing battle sometimes. :(:

Hangar18
07-15-2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
You're dead on hose. DePaul (where I'm an alumni thank you very much), in Lincoln Park, was a hell hole in 1970, but now is a great place to live, and there are a bunch of hotties running around there to boot!



Hey Sox Demon, nice to see fellow DePaul Alums here. Yes, in agreement, the LincolnPk, Wrigleyville area was Horrible, gang-infested, and filthy during the 60's and 70's. It only started
gentrifying in the 80's. And heres a NewsFlash. The Cubs STUNK back then, the park was the same back then, and the area wasnt Safe by any stretch of the imagination. NOW....The
area is HIP, the park is STILL THE SAME, and the Cubs Still STINK.
Whats wrong with this picture? You would think these Yellow Journalists would report this fact.......

A.T. Money
07-15-2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Hey Sox Demon, nice to see fellow DePaul Alums here. Yes, in agreement, the LincolnPk, Wrigleyville area was Horrible, gang-infested, and filthy during the 60's and 70's. It only started
gentrifying in the 80's. And heres a NewsFlash. The Cubs STUNK back then, the park was the same back then, and the area wasnt Safe by any stretch of the imagination. NOW....The
area is HIP, the park is STILL THE SAME, and the Cubs Still STINK.
Whats wrong with this picture? You would think these Yellow Journalists would report this fact.......

I forgot my phone in my car yesterday, but I looked for you and didn't see the gray Konerko jersey. One section over man and I didn't see you.

brewcrew/chisox
07-15-2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by xil357


Sure, I love washing my hands in piss after urinating in the troughs at the rat hole of a dump known as the Urinal. Because then I can go back to where I parked only to find that my car has been burglarized and vomited upon by a drunk yuppie who couldn't hold his trendy watered-down beer while being sunburned and oogling women in bikinis when he was hit on the head from a fresh-out-of-the-box baseball thrown back on the field when the backup rookie second baseman from the visiting team hit a cheap 360 foot wind-aided home run into the Sandberg Basket in the right-center power alley while he was talking on his cell phone with a representative from Premium Tickets and agreeing to pay $300 for a bleacher tickets to see the upcoming historic Cubs - Padres series given full page, full color coverage by the newspaper that is owned by the same corporation as the Cubs.

Oh, I forgot, I'm just a pinko conspiracy theorist with a tin-foil hat.


I hope you sent this to that idiot.

Nellie_Fox
07-15-2003, 12:42 PM
Here is the text of my email to the "writer."

I just finished reading your Headline Central article extolling the wonders of Wrigley Field and the whole “who cares who wins the game” magic of cubbiedom. As a lifelong White Sox fan, I’m used to the press slobbering all over themselves about the Cubs and Wrigley while denigrating the working class south side ballclub, so I won’t even try to argue with his opinion about which is the better experience. After all, that’s just personal opinion, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I would ask that you know your facts before perpetuating the stereotype of how dangerous the neighborhood around Comiskey Park (I refuse to call it US Cellular Field) is compared to the neighborhood around Wrigley. On what do you base that? The color of the skin of the residents? Because you see more black faces in the neighborhood around Comiskey and more white faces around Wrigley, does that mean it’s safer on the north side? Well, I’m sorry to disappoint you, my friend. A search of the Chicago Police Department’s official statistics almost always shows more crime in the neighborhood around Wrigley than around Comiskey. I just ran a search with a ½ mile radius around 35th and Shields (Comiskey) and Clark and Addison (Wrigley) for the time period of 6/25-7/8/03, the most recent two week period available for searching. For the types of crime your writer expressed concern about, being robbed or assaulted, the Wrigley area was worse, as always. The Wrigley area shows 7 incidents of battery, 3 assaults and 4 robberies. Comiskey, on the other hand, shows 10 batteries, 1 assault and only 2 robberies. In addition, property crimes show the Wrigley neighborhood being worse again, with 32 crimes reported compared to 26 around Comiskey.

It’s just fine to express a preference for the intangibles of the “experience” of Wrigley; that’s a personal preference. Just get your facts straight before mindlessly parroting the lie that Comiskey is a more dangerous place. That is irresponsible journalism.

Chisox353014
07-15-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by xil357
Sure, I love washing my hands in piss after urinating in the troughs at the rat hole of a dump known as the Urinal. Because then I can go back to where I parked only to find that my car has been burglarized and vomited upon by a drunk yuppie who couldn't hold his trendy watered-down beer while being sunburned and oogling women in bikinis when he was hit on the head from a fresh-out-of-the-box baseball thrown back on the field when the backup rookie second baseman from the visiting team hit a cheap 360 foot wind-aided home run into the Sandberg Basket in the right-center power alley while he was talking on his cell phone with a representative from Premium Tickets and agreeing to pay $300 for a bleacher tickets to see the upcoming historic Cubs - Padres series given full page, full color coverage by the newspaper that is owned by the same corporation as the Cubs.

Oh, I forgot, I'm just a pinko conspiracy theorist with a tin-foil hat.

http://www.angelfire.com/super2/isotopes/images/headbang2.gif :cool: This gets my vote for Post of the Week! :cool: http://www.angelfire.com/super2/isotopes/images/headbang2.gif

A.T. Money
07-15-2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
Here is the text of my email to the "writer."

Nellie_Fox, the writer is black...lol. Was your letter to the editor, or writer? It seems like you're speaking to a 3rd party about the writer, and then addressing the person as "you said this" and "get your facts straight".

Hangar18
07-15-2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
I forgot my phone in my car yesterday, but I looked for you and didn't see the gray Konerko jersey. One section over man and I didn't see you.

Really? I was there.....520 man, row 4. In Honor of BlackJack,
I'll be wearing the Gray MC DOWELL Jersey today.....stop over.

Nellie_Fox
07-15-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
Nellie_Fox, the writer is black...lol. Was your letter to the editor, or writer? It seems like you're speaking to a 3rd party about the writer, and then addressing the person as "you said this" and "get your facts straight". I didn't know, nor do I care, that the writer is black. You don't think a black person could also stereotype a black neighborhood as dangerous? Can you think of any other reason why everyone assumes Comiskey is the more dangerous area?

I originally wrote it to the editor. After I saw the link for the writer, I sent it to him, and obviously didn't catch all the slight revisions I needed to make.

Lip Man 1
07-15-2003, 01:00 PM
I understand where are of you are coming from (nicely composed e-mail Nellie!) but as was stated earlier in this thread, if the Sox want better publicity, THEN WIN AND DON'T CONSTANTLY UNDERACHIEVE!

Also I wonder if or when the Sox PR department sees things like this if they ever contact the writer? (probably not, that would take work...)

Lip

Jerko
07-15-2003, 01:15 PM
The sad thing is is that thousands upon thousands of idiots feel this way! Whoever goes to the game tonight, look around and on every 3rd person you see, there will be a Cub logo. They're actually proud to wear that garbage. Then you get the bimbos like the one I was near yesterday with her little #22 Jesus jersey on rooting for Pujols to win the HR derby because "she has to stick up for the National League" even though the Cards are supposedly hated by Cub 'fans'. Then after listening to her tell her girlfriend with a penis (the guy she was with) that "the only thing worse than a Sox fan is a north side Sox fan", she quickly got off the Pujols bandwagon because if he would have won, he would have broken Sham-me's cork aided record. It is very aggravating being looked down upon by people that are so completely and utterly mindless. You know what, I can see the lake from my office and the el trains too, I don't see Christmas morning in that and that's not even counting the smell of piss all over the place like at Pigley field. I HATE THEM! Let them have their little ol cutesy artsy fartsy park; they will NEVER WIN as long as Wrigley exists, and hopefully when their current lemming fan base all die the kids they've tainted over the years will have enough of a mind of their own to piss on this team and leave them fanless like they were during the days of Lee Elia. Until that happens, or we firebomb that dump, nothing will change.

Lip Man 1
07-15-2003, 01:35 PM
Actually things can change...for the worse.

If somehow the Cubs ever get to a World Series before the Sox, not win it just get there, the Sox are finished as an entity in this town. You may as well back up the moving trucks the next day.

Lip

DrCrawdad
07-15-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I don't even know what to say about this one. HORRIBLE! As a Sox fan, I'm used to being insulted in the media, but this one easily takes the cake. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Enjoy.

http://www.sportsbusinessnews.com/index.asp?story_id=28093

...and the surrounding neighborhoods remain lovely places for robberies and stabbings...

Why is when Cubbie fans talk trash, like this turd, it's ok for them to make racist remarks?

How come this turd's article was allowed to be put on a website?

Questions: Are robberies and stabbings common around The Cell? More importantly, how often are fans attending games at The Cell victims of robbery and/or stabbings?

I've heard these racist remarks(and remarks putting down the "blue-collar" Bridgeport residents) so many times from Cubbie fans. Ironically while they tolerate this intolerance don't ever bring up Wrigleyville's proximity to Boystown with Cubbie fans. That's just intolerable.

A.T. Money
07-15-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Actually things can change...for the worse.

If somehow the Cubs ever get to a World Series before the Sox, not win it just get there, the Sox are finished as an entity in this town. You may as well back up the moving trucks the next day.

Lip

Yeah and what happens if the Sox get there first?

MarqSox
07-15-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
Yeah and what happens if the Sox get there first?

My guess is it becomes more like what they have in New York, where the Yankees are clearly the more popular team but the Mets are still generally liked and have respectable attendance. In other words, the Cubs would still be the beloved but the Sox would be less like the second-class citizens they are now.

cheeses_h_rice
07-15-2003, 03:18 PM
Here is my letter to this "journalist":

Terence -

On a White Sox fan site that I frequent, someone posted a link to your recent article contrasting the beauty and eternal purity of the Chicago Cubs and Wrigley Field vs. the vile, sterile, bland, and unsafe surroundings of US Cellular Field and the team that inhabits it, the Chicago White Sox. I must say it takes stones of steel to make such a slam, coming from someone who covers the Atlanta Braves (which is my favorite NL team, having spent time in the South during my youth), the team which has the distinction of not selling out nearly all of its recent playoff games, and playing in a park with many similar attributes, cosmetically, to new Comiskey.

You praise the Cubs and Wrigley in every facet except for how the team on the field gets the job done. Very telling. Having lived in the Chicago area most of my life and grown up a Cubs and Sox fan, and having switched over to being a Sox fan and Cubs hater in the early '90s after experiencing first-hand the nauseating, homogeneous, Midwestern-state-college fratboy and sorority girl contingent taking over a once blue collar area (my mother lived a mile from Wrigley in the '40s and '50s, and the area was somewhat of a dump then and remained so, until the early '80s), I've noticed that those who praise the Cubs almost always fail to mention anything about the team's exploits on the field, and instead rave about the fact that there are people sitting on million-dollar rooftops across Waveland and Sheffield (paying $100+ a pop for the 'privilege'), that there is some green stuff growing on the outfield wall, and that some third-rate WB star gets to sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" in the middle of the 7th.

I'm sorry that new Comiskey/US Cellular isn't the great ballpark that Camden Yards apparently is. As a Sox fan, there are things about the way the park was built that I wish could have been done better. But as a fan of watching the game of baseball on the field a dozen or two times a year, the ballpark the White Sox play in is much more conducive to my enjoyment than the cramped confines of Wrigley Field, with its view-obstructing beams, uncomfortable seats, and most importantly, the thousands of know-nothing-or-little "fans" who come to the park to see fellow 'beautiful people' and to be seen. My experience has been that, while the average crowd at new Comiskey is usually about half that at Wrigley, those who show up know the team, know what's happening on the field, and really don't care all that much about supeficialities like ivy on the walls or whether or not Ernst & Young is having an outing on the rooftop across the street.

And I have to take you to task especially for this comment about the neighborhood in which the Sox play:

"As a result, the White Sox almost got it right when they decided to trigger the ongoing explosion of modern facilities in 1991 season. Their new place isn't bad. It just isn't good. The upper deck is too steep, the overall feel ranges from bland to sterile, and the surrounding neighborhoods remain lovely places for robberies and stabbings."

On what do you base this gross generalization on? I've been to hundreds of games at the park, often parking in these so-called 'scary' areas, and I have NEVER had any problems at all with crime, and no one in my circle of friends and family has, either. Actual crime statistics will show that the Bridgeport neighborhood has less crime than Wrigleyville, so I just chalk this up to lazy (red) journalism on your part.

You can have your opinion about the "shrine" of Wrigley and Wrigleyville, but I think you ought to know that many, many Sox fans are devoted to our team and our ballpark, whatever its shortcomings.

bobj4400
07-15-2003, 03:43 PM
great letter cheeses!!!!!!

Mammoo
07-15-2003, 04:19 PM
http://chicagosportsreview.com/news/newsview.asp?c=65999 :smile:

jabrch
07-15-2003, 05:30 PM
Everyone thinks Moore is an idiot... He must be Atlanta's answer to Mariotti.

WhiteSoxWinner
07-15-2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Mammoo
http://chicagosportsreview.com/news/newsview.asp?c=65999 :smile:

Who is this guy and what is the Chicago Sports Review? I've never heard of it before.

DrCrawdad
07-15-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
great letter cheeses!!!!!!

AGREED!

doublem23
07-15-2003, 06:37 PM
Sweet Jesus... My sides hurt so much from laughing at this buffoon.

Aw, I needed something like that. Durrrrrr...

JJAustin69
07-15-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
great letter cheeses!!!!!! Brilliantly done. My compliments on your defense of our honor. Post of the week.

RKMeibalane
07-15-2003, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
My guess is it becomes more like what they have in New York, where the Yankees are clearly the more popular team but the Mets are still generally liked and have respectable attendance. In other words, the Cubs would still be the beloved but the Sox would be less like the second-class citizens they are now.

I don't know. I could see a lot of people switching allegiances if the Sox win the World Series, if for no other reason, because they would look incredibly stupid rooting for the team that can't win anything.

On the other hand, a lot of people are Cubs fans simply because they like being able to call themselves Cubs fans. If they are stupid enough to walk down that path, then they probably wouldn't know enough to even being rooting for the Sox.

chisox56
07-15-2003, 07:49 PM
Why is there always a stereotype about the southside of chicago. There are nice places around the park. It must be the cubune giving it bad press all the time and only saying good things about the northside.

RKMeibalane
07-15-2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by chisox56
Why is there always a stereotype about the southside of chicago. There are nice places around the park. It must be the cubune giving it bad press all the time and only saying good things about the northside.

The media likes to take their shots at the Chicago White Sox any way they can. Making comments about the neighborhood is just one example.

doublem23
07-15-2003, 10:57 PM
I think I'm going to have to expand my "Chicago sports media = morons" to just be all embracing, "American sports media = morons."

I likes it.

Daver
07-15-2003, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I think I'm going to have to expand my "Chicago sports media = morons" to just be all embracing, "American sports media = morons."

I likes it.

Hmmm,I am in the process of trying to get press credentials for WSI...........

doublem23
07-15-2003, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by daver
Hmmm,I am in the process of trying to get press credentials for WSI...........

LOL... There are exceptions to every rule...

But seriously... I think 1 out of every 100,000 sports articles I read are nothing but complete and utter ridiculousness.

Stupid, stupid... Just stupid. Not worth the ink and paper they waste.

Nick@Nite
07-16-2003, 01:18 AM
I just sent numb-nuts my thoughts. Below is what I wrote.

------------------

Dear TLMoore,

The article you wrote titled "U.S. Cellular Field is no Wrigley" is the biggest piece of propaganda since the Manifesto written by Ted Kaczynski.

To help those (you), who cannot help themselves, the fact is that the Cubs are lousy,

Just like Wrigley's backed-up plumbing, stench-fueled bathrooms, the Cubs stink. And by the way, I could care even less what hip celebrities are into the Cubs. When was the last good movie(s) either Jim Belushi or Bill Murray do? Oh yeah, it was during the Reagan Administration.

Somewhere in Iraq, Baghdad Bob is weeping with admiration.

v/r
Chicago White Sox Fans Everywhere

ihatethecubs
07-16-2003, 05:42 AM
wow, not only is that article completely idiotic and gay, it is also poorly written. im glad i dont know what Terence Moore looks like, otherwise i'd track him down and beat him

hsnterprize
07-16-2003, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
Xil that was the greatest post that I have ever read. You forever have my admiration and respect. In response to the AJC article, this guy is a piece of trash. I have honestly never read such an outrageous and shallow article from a respected news medium in my entire life. There is honestly no excuse for that. How that even got past the editor is beyond me. Here's to hoping that someone recognizes him the next time he is on the South Side and makes him remember his article very quickly... You gotta understand...this guy writes for a newspaper in Atlanta. They're not into the Chicago White Sox scene like we are. Still, they've got their own problems, such as a team who knows how to win a division pretty easily, but changes their logo from the tomahawk axe to the universal choke sign when they get to the post season. Incidentally, I've often heard the Atlanta Journal-Constitution referred to as the Atlanta Urinal and Constipation. And I've been to Altlanta...it's a nice place. However, their newspaper writers don't appear to be to bright.

hsnterprize
07-16-2003, 07:42 AM
Dear Mr. Moore,

I read your article about U.S. Cellular Field and the All Star Game being played there this season, and I think I can speak for a lot of White Sox Fans when I say your article was as about as putrid and utterly ridiculous as those words can allow. Your total bias against the ballpark and the White Sox seems eminent. I can smell the Cub-related influence and area ignorance all the way from up here in Chicago, and I can tell you...it stinks. It's funny how you can criticize U.S. Cellular Field so strongly for being, as you put it, "boring", and without "magic", however, Altanta's Turner Field isn't exactly the south's version of Oriole Park at Camden Yards, either. It seems hard to me that a place named after a media mogul who needs to be run out of town faster than CNN/SI of the cable listings can really be considered an exciting ballpark. While I commend the Braves' success as of late, I really think you need to take a look at your own ballyard before you call pur place, "boring". Not only are the fans in Atlanta not even passionate enough to support their team when they make the playoffs unless they advance past the first round, but what exactly does Turner Field have that U.S. Cellular Field doesn't other than a team that wins division titles up the wazoo, but chokes in the NLCS or World Series. Of course that's good that your team makes it to the post season, but if I didn't know any better, I'd think the Buffalo Bills were working their summer jobs by playing baseball in "Hot-lanta".

If I may, please let me direct you to a site that might clear things up for you as to how things are around here when it comes to the White Sox.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com

If you even bother to actually do some research about the Sox and our ballpark situation, you might learn that your article was more than standard "drek" (a word I often use to describe printed garbage that actually makes the newspaper pages) that many writers who are connected with the Chicago Tribune, a partial owner of the Chicago Cubs, write whenever they want to spin the wonders of "beautiful Wrigley Field". Also, if you were to click on this specific link, you might learn about what Sox fans have to say about you. Congratulations...you have people talking about you. You have some attention...I just hope you like the reactions...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22093&perpage=15&display=show&pagenumber=1

Here's a tip...the next time you want to write something about anything Chicago...get it right. Do some research about your topic, and write accurately. It's not the criticism that's the problem here...it's your inability to get past the typical pro-Cubs drivel we Sox fans are constantly subjected to day after day. Believe it or not, many local writers are starting to shy away from that angle. Maybe after your finished with the tomahawk chop, you might want to put your newly-developed arm muscles to use and write some better material.

Sincerely...an aggravated Chicago White Sox fan.

Personally, I can understand how winning and such makes a team more popular, but this article was nothing more than a joke. If he wanted attention, then he's got it. He won't be on my frequently-read writers list. After reading this knucklehead's drivel, I'd rather read Mariotti...at least he's here and knows the local scene.

hsnterprize
07-16-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I understand where are of you are coming from (nicely composed e-mail Nellie!) but as was stated earlier in this thread, if the Sox want better publicity, THEN WIN AND DON'T CONSTANTLY UNDERACHIEVE!

Also I wonder if or when the Sox PR department sees things like this if they ever contact the writer? (probably not, that would take work...)

Lip Hey Lip,

I e-mailed Scott Reifert, the head of the Sox' P.R. office, and forwarded a link to this article. I also articulated that as a fan, that I commend the Sox for making improvements to the ballpark and such. I agree with you that winning will make much of this negative press go away, but when some idiot makes disparaging remarks about the place and the surrounding neighborhood, I think we as fans have to make a definite stand against such drivel.

Sure, the propaganda against the Sox/U.S. Cellular Field/the neighborhoods around the ballpark is old hat. But when the propaganda is re-hashed over and over again on a national scale, that's just too much.

Mo308oM
07-16-2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by hsnterprize
Dear Mr. Moore,

I read your article about U.S. Cellular Field and the All Star Game being played there this season, and I think I can speak for a lot of White Sox Fans when I say your article was as about as putrid and utterly ridiculous as those words can allow. Your total bias against the ballpark and the White Sox seems eminent. I can smell the Cub-related influence and area ignorance all the way from up here in Chicago, and I can tell you...it stinks. It's funny how you can criticize U.S. Cellular Field so strongly for being, as you put it, "boring", and without "magic", however, Altanta's Turner Field isn't exactly the south's version of Oriole Park at Camden Yards, either. It seems hard to me that a place named after a media mogul who needs to be run out of town faster than CNN/SI of the cable listings can really be considered an exciting ballpark. While I commend the Braves' success as of late, I really think you need to take a look at your own ballyard before you call pur place, "boring". Not only are the fans in Atlanta not even passionate enough to support their team when they make the playoffs unless they advance past the first round, but what exactly does Turner Field have that U.S. Cellular Field doesn't other than a team that wins division titles up the wazoo, but chokes in the NLCS or World Series. Of course that's good that your team makes it to the post season, but if I didn't know any better, I'd think the Buffalo Bills were working their summer jobs by playing baseball in "Hot-lanta".

If I may, please let me direct you to a site that might clear things up for you as to how things are around here when it comes to the White Sox.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com

If you even bother to actually do some research about the Sox and our ballpark situation, you might learn that your article was more than standard "drek" (a word I often use to describe printed garbage that actually makes the newspaper pages) that many writers who are connected with the Chicago Tribune, a partial owner of the Chicago Cubs, write whenever they want to spin the wonders of "beautiful Wrigley Field". Also, if you were to click on this specific link, you might learn about what Sox fans have to say about you. Congratulations...you have people talking about you. You have some attention...I just hope you like the reactions...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22093&perpage=15&display=show&pagenumber=1

Here's a tip...the next time you want to write something about anything Chicago...get it right. Do some research about your topic, and write accurately. It's not the criticism that's the problem here...it's your inability to get past the typical pro-Cubs drivel we Sox fans are constantly subjected to day after day. Believe it or not, many local writers are starting to shy away from that angle. Maybe after your finished with the tomahawk chop, you might want to put your newly-developed arm muscles to use and write some better material.

Sincerely...an aggravated Chicago White Sox fan.

Personally, I can understand how winning and such makes a team more popular, but this article was nothing more than a joke. If he wanted attention, then he's got it. He won't be on my frequently-read writers list. After reading this knucklehead's drivel, I'd rather read Mariotti...at least he's here and knows the local scene.

*high five*

34thStreet
07-16-2003, 10:45 PM
".... and the surrounding neighborhoods remain lovely places for robberies and stabbings."

If this F***stick had done his research, he would find that the Bridgeport neighborhood actually has a LOWER CRIME RATE than Wrigleyville (which is actually Lakeview!). US Cellular is located in CPD Beat 925. Wrigley Field lays in the corner of CPD Beat 2324 and across Clark Street is beat 1923 - South of Addison is beat 2331.

In beat 925, during 6/27 to 6/69 when the Cubs were visiting the southside, 9 crimes were committed. Seven of those nine were confined to the projects that remain south of the field. The projects east of the Ryan have been demolished. The other two were committed at 35th & Shields for "Criminal Trespass" (ie: peeing on the grass).

When the Sox played on the northside from 6/20 to 6/22 it was a different story. In beat 2324 there were 11 crimes. Beat 2331 had 6 crimes and beat 1923 tallied-up 11. Of these incidents 10 were within 1 block of Wrigley Field.

In fact, when the Cubs played the Yankees over 6/06 to 6/08 there were 11 crimes within 1 block of Wrigley. Over that same weekend, only ONE CRIME was commited near US Cellular, at 37th & Wentworth ("Deceptive Practice").

In fact, you can look-up any game day/night at either park and see what happened where. http://12.17.79.6/ctznicam/ctznicam.asp?cmd=beat

The numbers speak for themselves. It is safer around US Cellular than Wrigley anytime of the year.

As a former northsider (I grew-up west of Wrigley and owned a businesss at Clark & Grace for a number of years ) who began investing in real estate here in 1999, I can tell you firsthand that Bridgeport is already booming much like Lakeview was in the early '90's. I own three buildings here and have enjoyed a healthy appreciation on each one, thank you!

In Bridgeport, you can barely drive down a a city block without seeing a home being rehabbed or built from the ground-up. In fact at the corner of 35th & Halsted, ground will be broken on or about November 1st, 2003 for 66 condo units that will sit on 4 stories above the Gale Street Inn, Caribu Coffee and Barnes & Noble . There is also Bridgeport Village and Union Lofts going strong, not to mention the collossal development that you will soon see on 39th Street.

The "Powers That Be", and I assume we all know to whom I refer... are going to do this area right. In 5 years we'll drag Mr. Moore's sorry ass back here for a public Tar & Feathering.

prick.

TornLabrum
07-16-2003, 11:41 PM
Great post. There is also development going on east of the Ryan, too. I believe there are some relatively new upscale condos on Michigan someone around 31st St. or thereabouts, aren't there?

Some real estate outfit was also advertising properties in Bronzeville at the ballpark last year.

And now that the projects are mostly down, that land is going to be mighty valuable. The entire area will be booming within a few years.

maurice
07-17-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by 34thStreet
Gale Street Inn, Caribu Coffee and Barnes & Noble

That's a strange combination for Bridgeport. We really could use an upgraded Jewel or a Target instead. The big, empty lots on Pershing would be another good place for big commercial development, but it looks like those are slated for residential.

How do you think these three new businesses will do, particularly the coffee shop? Scalises' and Puffers' Cafes went out of business in relatively short order. I can't see anyone from the neighborhood paying $4 for a tall latte when you can get a tastier bottomless cup o' joe for much less at several places within a two-block radius. As you know, most of the new construction and rehabs aren't necessarily targeting only the traditional Lakeview yuppie.

maurice
07-17-2003, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I believe there are some relatively new upscale condos on Michigan someone around 31st St. or thereabouts, aren't there?

Bronzeville is doing very well right now. Take a drive down Michigan, Indiana, Giles, etc. between 31st St. and 35th St. to see tons of new, high-end townhouses and condos. There are still some pretty big gaps (empty lots and run-down buildings), but I expect those to fill in over the next several years. The new 31st St. beach is fantastic, and the city finally is re-doing the rest of the lakefront parkland and South LSD.

cheeses_h_rice
07-17-2003, 04:11 PM
Does anyone know what exactly the CHA is planning on building on the south side of 35th just east of the Ryan (across 35th from IIT and LaSalle HS)? I walked past what used to be tower blocks, and there were signs saying something to the effect of "A Community Coming Soon."

hold2dibber
07-17-2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by 34thStreet
".... and the surrounding neighborhoods remain lovely places for robberies and stabbings."

If this F***stick had done his research, he would find that the Bridgeport neighborhood actually has a LOWER CRIME RATE than Wrigleyville (which is actually Lakeview!). US Cellular is located in CPD Beat 925. Wrigley Field lays in the corner of CPD Beat 2324 and across Clark Street is beat 1923 - South of Addison is beat 2331.

In beat 925, during 6/27 to 6/69 when the Cubs were visiting the southside, 9 crimes were committed. Seven of those nine were confined to the projects that remain south of the field. The projects east of the Ryan have been demolished. The other two were committed at 35th & Shields for "Criminal Trespass" (ie: peeing on the grass).

When the Sox played on the northside from 6/20 to 6/22 it was a different story. In beat 2324 there were 11 crimes. Beat 2331 had 6 crimes and beat 1923 tallied-up 11. Of these incidents 10 were within 1 block of Wrigley Field.

In fact, when the Cubs played the Yankees over 6/06 to 6/08 there were 11 crimes within 1 block of Wrigley. Over that same weekend, only ONE CRIME was commited near US Cellular, at 37th & Wentworth ("Deceptive Practice").

In fact, you can look-up any game day/night at either park and see what happened where. http://12.17.79.6/ctznicam/ctznicam.asp?cmd=beat

The numbers speak for themselves. It is safer around US Cellular than Wrigley anytime of the year.

As a former northsider (I grew-up west of Wrigley and owned a businesss at Clark & Grace for a number of years ) who began investing in real estate here in 1999, I can tell you firsthand that Bridgeport is already booming much like Lakeview was in the early '90's. I own three buildings here and have enjoyed a healthy appreciation on each one, thank you!

In Bridgeport, you can barely drive down a a city block without seeing a home being rehabbed or built from the ground-up. In fact at the corner of 35th & Halsted, ground will be broken on or about November 1st, 2003 for 66 condo units that will sit on 4 stories above the Gale Street Inn, Caribu Coffee and Barnes & Noble . There is also Bridgeport Village and Union Lofts going strong, not to mention the collossal development that you will soon see on 39th Street.

The "Powers That Be", and I assume we all know to whom I refer... are going to do this area right. In 5 years we'll drag Mr. Moore's sorry ass back here for a public Tar & Feathering.

prick.

Great post, and very exciting for Sox fans. As much as I love going to Sox games, I must admit that a bustling and thriving community around the ballpark would make the experience that much better. I'm sure I'm not alone in that feeling; a great surrounding environment can only help the team. (Not that there's anything wrong with Bridgeport, but as it is now, there are only a few small neighborhood joints in walking distance of the park, and not many other "hot spots" in the immediate vicinity.)

34thStreet
07-17-2003, 04:28 PM
True indeed, but I have a good feeling that we'll see a lot of things that would be considered "untraditional" for Bridgport coming in next spring. I've tried pinning the alderman down on comments about a Target or something of that nature, but no comment. By the way, Target and Ikea will be built at the intersection of Roosevelt and Clark on the east side across the street from one another. Home Depot may or may not go behind the White Palace at Canal and Roosevelt. There are issues with the foundation that have to be addressed.

As for the coffee, I prefer the Ramova Grill (breakfast special of 2 eggs, 2 bacon and 2 pancakes plus coffee for $3.90!).
Scalises' and Puffers' Cafes I beleive were ideas before their time. Plus there werent 66 condos being built directly above their cafes!

I strongly feel there is a market here (albeit east of Halsted) for "gourmet" types of products, ie: Starbucks, Einsteins Bagels, etc. All you have to do is go to Pancho Pistolos on 31st any Friday or Saturday night and wait in line to get in. They even had to build an upstairs dining room to handle the demand. The food there is not inexpensive and the atmosphere could definetly be considered "yuppie". San Jose Restaurant is 2 blocks away on Halsted, is much cheaper, but doesn't have the ambiance (or the marketing skills) of Panchos.

Look at Morrie O' Malleys on 35th any lunch hour - always a line out the door. Again the food prices there are higher than comparable places at the greasy spoons on Halsted or even that joint on 35th and Normal (whose hamburgers are way better anyway!). Again, it's the ambiance and, truth be told, the appeal to middle class yuppies. On Halsted it's gritty and rough, plus you have to deal with the drunks that are attracted to that street thanks to Bridgeport Liquors. By the way, using emineint domain, the city is taking down the entire east side of Halsted, including the liqour store. Read about this at http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/COCWebPortal/COC_EDITORIAL/SouthHalsted_1.txt

As for 39th Street - you may see the new 9th District Police station being moved from it's proposed location at Halsted and 31st. This would be nice and comforting for all the people who will be moving into the new residential developement there 3-5 years from now. There was something about 39th and State just introduced to the City Council by the Commissioner of Planning & Development on July 9th. The southwest corner of this interestection was a site that was briefly considered by IKEA a few years ago, but I believe that parcel is owned by a private party.

Take Care and GO SOX!

34thStreet
07-17-2003, 04:46 PM
On Wednesday July 17, 2002, the Sun-Times printed an article on page 17 with a artists conception of the new housing (2-3 story homes) which will replace Stateway Gardens. It will be a mix of low rise townhomes and single family homes between 35th and 39th streets.

It will be 1300 units, equal parts public housing (440 units will replace what was 557 units), affordable units and apartments renting at market rate will complete the rest of the 1300.

By the way, Ownings and Merrill are the achitects for this project and they won a national design award for it in June 2002.

maurice
07-17-2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by 34thStreet
All you have to do is go to Pancho Pistolos on 31st any Friday or Saturday night and wait in line to get in. . . . San Jose Restaurant is 2 blocks away on Halsted, is much cheaper, but doesn't have the ambiance (or the marketing skills) of Panchos.

Quite right. San Jose has better/cheaper food overall (including the fabulous "superburrito") and faster delivery, but Pancho's has "ambience" and hotter waitresses (a HUGE advantage). I'm glad to have them both but am not too enthused at the prospect of out-of-town chains like Starbucks.

By the way, using emineint domain, the city is taking down the entire east side of Halsted, including the liqour store. Read about this at http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/COCWebPortal/COC_EDITORIAL/SouthHalsted_1.txt

I hope that curbs the drunks, though it may only move them down the block towards 38th St. The ordinance reflects three addresses on Halsted. One of the storefronts just south of there (a former Rainbow store with no apartments) is for sale, along with the former popcorn place on 35th Street. The current asking price for the popcorn building ($499K) seems remarkably high, especially considering that half or more of the surrounding storefronts are vacant. In fact, I've seen a number of buildings recently listed at $100K+ above their market value and eventually sold for much less (or not sold at all).

Interesting.

Joel Perez
07-17-2003, 11:59 PM
I just wrote from my heart, and kept typing. So, if I appear to be way off base to some WS fans, I apologize in advance.

Mr. Moore--

Greetings!

While reading your article, I try to stay as objective and "thinking out of the box" as much as I can.

Being a South Sider from Chicago since birth, I take pride in what I have seen and heard from Comiskey Park as a lad, growing up and then going over to the new ball park in the early 90s until recently, when I have just relocated to the San Antonio, TX area.

After reading your article, though, I feel that your write-up is nothing more than comparing apples to oranges, and nothing that most of America already knew.

My initial response is "No kidding...Wrigley has the charm factor that most parks don't." But let's not kid ourselves...Wrigley Field has met its match with some of today's ballparks...from your mentioning of Camden Yards, to the recently made Pac-Bell park in San Francisco, where the crab cakes and the sound of the bat off of Barry Bonds in the always-pleasant San Francisco environment beats Wrigley any day of the week. You forgot to mention, too, the North Siders love of the beer, and how much that "charm" factor can wear off because of some knucklehead who claims that he is the #1 baseball fan of Chicago, and wants to pick a fight with you for saying otherwise.

Also proclaiming Old Comiskey Park as "a dump", too, is a slap in the face as well. No other place came alive with much zeal and joyfulness when the Sox came close in 1977 and 1983. A ballpark is only a dump because of teams consistenly losing games, thus the ball park losing it's appeal. Old Comiskey, back in the days, was considered a jewel, long before you were born. It had probably outlived its usefulness, and should have been torned down years even before the 90s occured. Atlanta Fulton-County Stadium was considered a dump before the Braves started winning a few games in the 90s...funny what happens when you start winning a few ballgames. True, ownership missed a grand opportunity in building a new ballpark...Baltimore picked up some great tips because it saw things that Chicago didn't...a ballpark that would endure through tough times, while New Comiskey...err, U.S. Cellular Field, is just, "simple".

However, your slap to the Chicago White Sox ballclub is unjustified and uncalled for, proclaiming it "just losers". While the Atlanta Braves have won consecutive division titles in the 90s and today, they have yet, except once in the 90s, clinched it all. The Braves may or may not have one a couple of more championships from their Milwaukee days, but the Sox have been one of Major League Baseball's charter members way back in the early days. The Sox may not have won a championship recently due to poor management and ownership, true, but having an owner such as Ted Turner cleary proves the point that you need the right ownership and management to steer the ship. Unfortunately for all White Sox fans, this has been rare.

But to call the White Sox "just losers", indeed, is a harsh slap in the face. Heck, South Siders didn't even cared about Atlanta's stadium back in the days, much less Turner Field now. I'm surprised you do. But that is beside the point.

I'm not looking for an apology, a recant, or anything along those lines. The last time I checked, the United States does have a "freedom of speech" write-up the Constitution.

I just don't like being called a "loser". We South Siders take our teams with pride, and we, in a way, are very close to our team, like it's our family. But I guess an Atlantian wouldn't understand...it's a South Side thing. I take pride in my team, and consider myself a "Die-Hard" White Sox fan, who has been dying hard for the last few decades.

It's just another long "Anti-anything Chicago White Sox" articles that I have read since I was a kid, growing up near Rosie's at 26th and Wallace.

Just my two cents, if you care. I'm surprised you, however, did, when writing the article.

Sincerely,

Joel Perez
Luling, TX

jrperez@bcsnet.net

hold2dibber
07-18-2003, 09:37 AM
My response to Mr. Moore:

"Mr. Moore:

I read with interest your recent article in which you compared U.S. Cellular Field, and the White Sox organization in general, with Wrigley Field and the Cubs organization. The article struck me as no more than a hatchet job meant to insult the White Sox and praise the Cubs. Although I don’t really understand the motivation for such an attack, and while I suppose you are entitled to your opinions, there are several blatant factual errors in the article that seem to me to prove that the article was no more than a mean spirited attack based upon some personal bias and not upon the truth. To wit:

(1) You state that “[e]ven when the White Sox had old Comiskey Park, a contemporary for 80 years of Wrigley and Boston's Fenway Park, Wrigley and Fenway were considered jewels while Comiskey was considered a dump.” I don’t know about Fenway, but I grew up (in the ‘70s and ‘80s) within spitting distance of Wrigley Field. Despite being a die hard Sox fan, I went to many games at Wrigley Field, because I love baseball and it was so close. I can say without any hesitation that in those years, Wrigley Field was considered by almost everyone to be a dump. Do you remember Lee Elia’s famous profanity-laced diatribe against the few thousand fans who bothered to show up to Cubs games in those days? Nobody came to the park in those days, because everyone considered it to be a dump. The Wrigley Field I grew up going to was not the glorified shrine as so many now characterize it; it was seen for what it is – an aging, smelly, dank, foul, place where lousy sight lines, obstructed views and bad teams are the rule of the day. Of course, in those days, Wrigleyville was a lower-middle class neighborhood, mostly populated by Hispanics and, to a lesser extent, African Americans. Now that wealthy white 20-somethings populate the neighborhood and corporations pay for roof top luxury suites, the very same park is now a baseball mecca. You, like so many others, have fallen prey to the wide-spread belief that Wrigley has always been universally considered to be a “magical” place (to use your term); however, this belief is based not upon true history, but upon the remarkable gentrification of the neighborhood surrounding Wrigley and the truly amazing job the Tribune and WGN have done of marketing the team and the Wrigley “experience” over the last 10 to 15 years. Thus, your statement comparing the old Comiskey to Wrigley was nothing but a cheap shot and simply not true.

(2) You state that “[t]he surrounding neighborhood [around U.S. Cellular Field] remains a lovely place for muggings.” I take it you did some research to confirm this, right? Oh wait, maybe not. If you had done so, you would know that there is much more crime (including violent crime) in Wrigleyville than in the area surrounding U.S. Cellular Field – has been that way for some time. But why bother with facts when you have a hatchet job to attend to! It is much easier to ignore the statistics (and, for that matter, the throng of drunken frat boys urinating and vomiting all over Wrigleyville before and after every Cubs game) and jump on the White Sox bashing bandwagon, particularly in light of the fact that many of the faces surrounding U.S. Cellular Field are brown.

(3) You deride U.S. Cellular field for being boring and sterile, but then go on to say that “Their new place was named after their old place, but for the sake of a few pennies, they switched from ‘Comiskey Park’ to ‘U.S. Cellular Field’ this season. Plus, their version of adding ivy to a nondescript structure was to paint the walls. They've changed much of the white concrete to dark gray.” So let me get this straight: you slam the place for being “boring.” But then you slam the team for finding a way to get money to improve it (seems like if you think the place is boring, you would be in favor of finding some cash to make it not-so-boring). And, worst of all, you then slam the team for the improvements they have made. So, in other words, they just can’t win, because, as your article makes perfectly clear, your whole purpose is to attack the White Sox, no matter what they do. This fact is illustrated further by your deceitful characterization of the extent of the changes made to the park so far. You suggest that all the Sox have done is to re-paint some concrete. Either you are intentionally misleading your readers, or you just don’t care about the truth, because in fact the Sox have done a lot more than just painting the walls. They added shrubbery to the center field batter’s view, put in old fashioned brick facing throughout the park, installed old fashioned light fixtures and signage throughout, replaced the old jumbotron with a state-of-the art, high definition screen , enclosed the club level, and added a truly stunning viewing deck in CF. But when you’re intent on reaming the organization, I suppose you can’t be bothered with the facts.

(4) You claim that “The upper deck is too steep”. My first reaction to this is that I highly doubt that you’ve ever been in the upper deck at U.S. Cellular Field. My guess is that your “opinion” of the upper deck is simply you regurgitating the same tired nonsense that you’ve heard elsewhere in the media. Nonetheless, I do happen to agree that the upper deck is too steep. What you, and countless others, fail to recognize, however, is that the upper deck is no steeper than it is at many other ballparks. I have been in the upper deck at Miller Park, Yankee Stadium, and even the fabled Camden Yards, and they are all just as steep as that at U.S. Cellular Field. People in Chicago were not used to steep upper decks, as neither the original Comiskey Park nor Wrigley Field ever had steep upper decks and, as a result, many here have complained about the upper deck's pitch. But the fact remains that the upper deck at U.S. Cellular Field is no steeper than the upper deck at other parks that are never maligned for this design. You, like so many others, simply ignore that fact. Another example of a so-called "journalist" simply spitting out the "accepted truth" regardless of its veracity.

I also noted some of your opinions in the article, which, frankly, make me laugh and say all that needs to be said about the media and its reflexively fellative approach to all things Cubs:

(1) “It doesn't matter which team is visiting this city's north side. Neither does victory nor defeat for the Cubs.” Exactly. Thanks for making my point. Wrigley Field has nothing to do with baseball. Baseball fans like U.S. Cellular Field because it is a vastly superior place to actually watch baseball. People who like an outdoor beer garden go to Wrigley.

(2) “The entire Wrigleyville experience is the essence of Abner Doubleday's little game.” Uh, except for the fact that you can't see the field and nobody cares who wins.

(3) “Anything shy of leveling what they have now and moving to the corner of Addison and Clark (you know, the home of the Friendly Confines) won't work.” So there you go. The Sox can't do anything right, their park can never be good enough, because it's on the wrong side of town. What rational and insightful criticism. Thanks!

Your attack on all things White Sox was spiteful, ignorant and utterly ridiculous. What was the point, other than to slam the Sox (without any regard for actual facts)? What a wonderful journalist you are."

Paulwny
07-18-2003, 09:48 AM
Very nice job Dibber !!!!!!!!!!!

Jerko
07-18-2003, 09:51 AM
Dibber, I don't want to recopy your whole post, but let me just say it was excellent. Funny how the upper deck is too far away but sitting on a steep set of seats on a roof on a building across the street from the park, looking through green screens (last year at least) is considered 'quaint'.

hold2dibber
07-18-2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Dibber, I don't want to recopy your whole post, but let me just say it was excellent. Funny how the upper deck is too far away but sitting on a steep set of seats on a roof on a building across the street from the park, looking through green screens (last year at least) is considered 'quaint'.

Ha! What a great point. And don't forget that you have to pay about $100 per ticket for the privilege!