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pcullotta
07-14-2003, 11:16 AM
One of the major problems with the White Sox that I see is that the lineup changes so much that hitters never get settled into their role. This of course can be attributed to Jerry Manuel. I don't know if this has been posted before, but I did some research to check how often some managers change the lineup.
Yankees - 58 times.
Braves - 44 times.
Mariners - 62.
White Sox - 84 times

This means that Jerry has changed the lineup over 20 times more then the three best teams in baseball. Does anyone else think that this is a problem.

voodoochile
07-14-2003, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by pcullotta
One of the major problems with the White Sox that I see is that the lineup changes so much that hitters never get settled into their role. This of course can be attributed to Jerry Manuel. I don't know if this has been posted before, but I did some research to check how often some managers change the lineup.
Yankees - 58 times.
Braves - 44 times.
Mariners - 62.
White Sox - 84 times

This means that Jerry has changed the lineup over 20 times more then the three best teams in baseball. Does anyone else think that this is a problem.

Yup, that's why we call him "The Tinkerer". And, yes, it's a problem...

Welcome Aboard! :D:

pl8ump1012
07-14-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by pcullotta
One of the major problems with the White Sox that I see is that the lineup changes so much that hitters never get settled into their role. This of course can be attributed to Jerry Manuel. I don't know if this has been posted before, but I did some research to check how often some managers change the lineup.
Yankees - 58 times.
Braves - 44 times.
Mariners - 62.
White Sox - 84 times

This means that Jerry has changed the lineup over 20 times more then the three best teams in baseball. Does anyone else think that this is a problem.

Welcome Aboard!! :D: To answer your question, yes, this is something I have seen discussed quite a bit on this board even in the short amount of time I have been here. I dont think I have ever seen the numbers you just posted though. Kinda emphasizes the point that manuel's tinkering is causing a problem. :firejerry

bobj4400
07-14-2003, 11:54 AM
I am actually shocked that he has used the same lineup as many as 10 different times. My roommate and I were wondering if he had ever used the same lineup in back to back days, and came to the conclusion that he probably had not.



BTW, it is good to hear all of the 'Manuel Fired' rumors on the other threads...

Finally, The Tinkerer may have tinkered too much.

MisterB
07-14-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by pcullotta
One of the major problems with the White Sox that I see is that the lineup changes so much that hitters never get settled into their role. This of course can be attributed to Jerry Manuel. I don't know if this has been posted before, but I did some research to check how often some managers change the lineup.
Yankees - 58 times.
Braves - 44 times.
Mariners - 62.
White Sox - 84 times

This means that Jerry has changed the lineup over 20 times more then the three best teams in baseball. Does anyone else think that this is a problem.

The lineup question is a 'chicken-or-egg' proposition: are those teams good because they don't change lineups, or do they not change lineups because they're good? Try comparing the Sox to the Giants, because Felipe Alou is who Manuel learned lineup tinkering from.

pcullotta
07-14-2003, 12:35 PM
The Giants have changed their lineup 75 times. So Jerry still tinkers more.

The student almost always surpasses the teacher. :smile:

siugrad25
07-14-2003, 12:42 PM
First off, good job on getting those numbers. Wow! So let's get this right, in 94 games this season, he's used 84 different line ups??? Holy crap. It's little wonder that this team is under .500. As been brought up before, in 2000, that line up was set in stone and since then you never know what you're going to get. Since you can't get it right JM, maybe it's time to move on.... Sorry, we have a weak division to win.

MarkEdward
07-14-2003, 12:45 PM
Maybe Jerry had to tinker a lot because, up until about three weeks ago, our starting first baseman, third baseman, and center fielder(s) all had OPS' under .600.

JJAustin69
07-14-2003, 12:46 PM
Excellent stat. Proves conclusively what we have known to be true all along. 84 different lineups in 94 games. That is just stupid.

MisterB
07-14-2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by pcullotta
The Giants have changed their lineup 75 times. So Jerry still tinkers more.

The student almost always surpasses the teacher. :smile:

:jerry
"Once I was but the learner, now I am the master."

http://www.spitter.com/images/felipe_alou.jpg
"Only a master of evil, Jerry."

ScottyTheSoxFan
07-14-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by pcullotta
Yankees - 58 times.
Braves - 44 times.
Mariners - 62.
White Sox - 84 times

Yankees - 57W 36L
Braves - 61W 32L
Mariners - 58 W 35L
White Sox - 45W 49 L

big difference

duke of dorwood
07-14-2003, 02:35 PM
And I bet the changed line ups the other teams used did not involve 3 or more players like our Tinkerer does at a time.

:KW

Hey dont be critical of 3 for 1's

Hangar18
07-14-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by pcullotta
One of the major problems with the White Sox that I see is that the lineup changes so much that hitters never get settled into their role. This of course can be attributed to Jerry Manuel. I don't know if this has been posted before, but I did some research to check how often some managers change the lineup.
Yankees - 58 times.
Braves - 44 times.
Mariners - 62.
White Sox - 84 times

This means that Jerry has changed the lineup over 20 times more then the three best teams in baseball. Does anyone else think that this is a problem.

WOW these numbers are mind-boggling. Good one Culotta
He messes with the lineup way too much for his own good....

WhiteSoxWinner
07-14-2003, 02:48 PM
The other problem with all these lineups are all these excuses about how a guy needs rest, like Alomar on Friday and Sunday. I couldn't stand listening to JM babble on about how Alomar played two the day before and needed a rest. Are you kidding me!!! There was an off-day on Monday, and he got Friday, Sunday, now the All-Star break. If I hear about any player needing a "rest" prior to the end of July, I'll go insane. These are veteran ball players who should be able to go for 130+ games a season (barring injury). IMO, all this rest is just an excuse to tinker.

Wemiss Fisk
07-14-2003, 03:50 PM
No kidding. All that 'rest' has been doing them a lot of good. Sure they really need rest prior to the all-star break. Baseball is just sooooo strenuous (you know - hanging out in bars, picking up chicks, staying in 4 star hotels, ordering room service, and being treated like a rich celebrity can be tough. Plus, they have to stand on their feet, 2 or 3 hours a day. That can be rough.

JERRY'S FEAR OF GETTING FIRED ONLY INCREASES HIS TINKERING EVEN MORE!!!

DC Sox Fan
07-14-2003, 03:59 PM
One of the major problems with the White Sox that I see is that the lineup changes so much


To quote the immortal R. Lee Ermey in "Full Metal Jacket"

"well... no ****!"

RKMeibalane
07-14-2003, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
:jerry
"Once I was but the learner, now I am the master."

http://www.spitter.com/images/felipe_alou.jpg
"Only a master of evil, Jerry."

That's an insult to Darth Vader. No one deserves to be compared to Jerry Manuel.

http://images.usatoday.com/news/health/spotlight/_photos/darth.jpg

*Breathing*

LASOXFAN
07-14-2003, 08:12 PM
Duke, that was an awesome post!

RKMeibalane
07-14-2003, 09:41 PM
This is the lineup Jerry Manuel should use for the remainder of the season:

2B- Alomar
SS- Valentin
1B- Thomas
RF- Ordonez
CF- Everett
LF- Lee
DH- Daubach
3B- Crede
C- Olivo

One more thing... Manuel had better use this lineup and then leave everything the **** alone.