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Viva Magglio
07-11-2003, 07:55 PM
...that Jerry Manuel "could be in trouble." Levine claimed not to have any "inside knowledge" of any imminent move to be made on JM. However, you know that if Levine says stuff like this, you know something is up.

If they were to make a move on Manuel, and I wouldn't put it past Kenny Williams to do it, the move would occur on July 16 at the latest. I cannot see the team that is hosting the All-Star Game fire its manager at the break.

RKMeibalane
07-11-2003, 07:57 PM
I'll be one of the first to cheer if Manuel is sent packing. I'm sick and tired of his tinkering and poor decision making. He's an awful manager.

Jerry_Manuel
07-11-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I'll be one of the first to cheer if Manuel is sent packing. I'm sick and tired of his tinkering and poor decision making. He's an awful manager.

What happens when the team still sucks when Manuel is gone?

Who gets the blame then?

*I'm not coming to Manuels' aide, I just want to know.

Viva Magglio
07-11-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
What happens when the team still sucks when Manuel is gone?

Who gets the blame then?

*I'm not coming to Manuels' aide, I just want to know.

We know this team's problems go beyond Manuel. His ouster, if nothing else, would be a sign that this is not to be tolerated.

RKMeibalane
07-11-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
What happens when the team still sucks when Manuel is gone?

Who gets the blame then?


Do you really need to ask that question?

:reinsy

"Why are you looking at me?"

Jerry_Manuel
07-11-2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
We know this team's problems go beyond Manuel. His ouster, if nothing else, would be a sign that this is not to be tolerated.

I agree.

The problem is that this organization is stupid. If you're trying to win it this year, you have to fire Manuel now. No excuse whatsoever to go 1-6 against these teams.

Jerry_Manuel
07-11-2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Do you really need to ask that question?

:reinsy

"Why are you looking at me?"

heh.

RKMeibalane
07-11-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
I agree.

The problem is that this organization is stupid. If you're trying to win it this year, you have to fire Manuel now. No excuse whatsoever to go 1-6 against these teams.

If the Sox were run by an owner who gives a ****, Manuel probably would be fired because of this. However, they are run by someone who cares only about how much money he has in his wallet, and so, Manuel will be kept around so that JR doesn't have to pay for another manager.

Jerry_Manuel
07-11-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
If the Sox were run by an owner who gives a ****, Manuel probably would be fired because of this. However, they are run by someone who cares only about how much money he has in his wallet, and so, Manuel will be kept around so that JR doesn't have to pay for another manager.

Agree again.

They send so many mixed messages I can't stand it.

You add Koch, Colon, Everett and Alomar sending a message that you're trying to win it all. Then don't make the key move and can the manager.

jeremyb1
07-12-2003, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
We know this team's problems go beyond Manuel. His ouster, if nothing else, would be a sign that this is not to be tolerated.

most people seem to think we'd be in first place with a different manager, i don't think that's fully accounting for the other problems this team has had to deal with.

DrCrawdad
07-12-2003, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
most people seem to think we'd be in first place with a different manager, i don't think that's fully accounting for the other problems this team has had to deal with.

Like a team made up of slow, slumbering sluggers who think the only stat that matters is HRs.

DonkeyKongerko
07-12-2003, 04:37 AM
I think honestly none of us know what would happen with a different manager. We have sat through 5 years and counting of Jerry Manuel White Sox baseball and we really don't know how alot of these guys would perform under a different manager. I really think it is time we gave someone else a chance. Five years under the same boss really isn't good for anyone. Jerry is right now one of the longest tenured managers in the league.

ChiSoxBobette
07-12-2003, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
If the Sox were run by an owner who gives a ****, Manuel probably would be fired because of this. However, they are run by someone who cares only about how much money he has in his wallet, and so, Manuel will be kept around so that JR doesn't have to pay for another manager.

If we had an owner who cared Manuel would have been gone at the end of last year. Six years of Manuel making his dumba$$ mistakes. No other owner would have put up with this crap. After the 3rd year a good owner could have seen that Manuel has no clue as to how to manage a major league baseball team, he has to be accountable for this 1 & 6 road trip.If the Sox get swept by the Indians that should be the end of the Jerry Manuel era in White Sox history if it is'nt then Reinsdorf does'nt cares about winning and on July 16th look for the trades for career minor leaguers to begin.
:angry: :angry: :angry: :gulp:

gosox41
07-12-2003, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
...that Jerry Manuel "could be in trouble." Levine claimed not to have any "inside knowledge" of any imminent move to be made on JM. However, you know that if Levine says stuff like this, you know something is up.

If they were to make a move on Manuel, and I wouldn't put it past Kenny Williams to do it, the move would occur on July 16 at the latest. I cannot see the team that is hosting the All-Star Game fire its manager at the break.

What's really sad is that the sox basically kept Manuel around so he can have the "honor" of being an All Star coach and hopefully being loudly booed by Sox fans at the game.

Bob

gosox41
07-12-2003, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
What happens when the team still sucks when Manuel is gone?

Who gets the blame then?

*I'm not coming to Manuels' aide, I just want to know.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that whoever replaces Manuel will have a higher winning % then Manuel does. Obviously this team has holes, but they are not as bad as they've been playing.

Bob

dickallen15
07-12-2003, 09:12 AM
They've changed players, coaches nothing has worked. There is one comatose constant on the team. Fire JM

harwar
07-12-2003, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
...that Jerry Manuel "could be in trouble." Levine claimed not to have any "inside knowledge" of any imminent move to be made on JM. However, you know that if Levine says stuff like this, you know something is up.

The same thing was said on baseball tonight.They also said that NO ONE can figure this team out.I wonder how many guys in the White Sox clubhouse just want out.I think this whole organization is rotten to the core.
KW said that Manuel was gone after the season if the Sox didn't make the playoffs.Oh well,you might as well do it now,i mean what the heck do you have to lose.

Jerko
07-12-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
What happens when the team still sucks when Manuel is gone?

Who gets the blame then?

*I'm not coming to Manuels' aide, I just want to know.


What it the team is better after he leaves? I for one would like the chance to find that out. One thing for sure; they can't get any worse so deep-six this guy to prove that you still have a pulse.

B. Diddy
07-12-2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I'll go out on a limb here and say that whoever replaces Manuel will have a higher winning % then Manuel does. Obviously this team has holes, but they are not as bad as they've been playing.


I don't think that a manager could do any worse with this group.

Sometimes underachieving teams need a good kick in the ass and firing a manager will sometimes do that. I have nothing against JM as a person, but I don't think that he's the type who can get a lot out of our lazy veterans.

They need a fiery Lou Piniella type who isn't afraid get on the players' asses when they fail to advance a runner or get behind in the count too often.

voodoochile
07-12-2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by B. Diddy
I don't think that a manager could do any worse with this group.

Sometimes underachieving teams need a good kick in the ass and firing a manager will sometimes do that. I have nothing against JM as a person, but I don't think that he's the type who can get a lot out of our lazy veterans.

They need a fiery Lou Piniella type who isn't afraid get on the players' asses when they fail to advance a runner or get behind in the count too often.

Heck, it can't hurt. I don't get the impression that Manuel ever gets in anybody's face. Sometimes a team needs that. Not always. No one likes a screamer, but when a team gets swept by the Tigers and scores a whopping 3 runs in the whole series, something needs to be said. If you do it right, then no one feels singled out (when you get swept by the Tigers, no one should be singled out, there is plenty of blame to go around).

Does this team have a "fine jar"? You know, where if a guy hits into a DP with the bases loaded and 1 away, they have to put $100 or whatever in the jar. At the end of the season they throw a party or whatever with the money. This team could have a 7 course meal at the Ritz and have plenty left over for an open bar for several hours. But that is besides the point. Who is the leader on this team? Someone needs to step up and say, "Guys, we need to start paying attention and make something happen."

Manuel's excuses are becoming more and more Wanny-esque with every passing day.

:jerry
"We just are having rotten luck."
"We're scuffling."
"I'll tinker until we get it right."

Something needs to change, that is for sure...

Paulwny
07-12-2003, 01:59 PM
Last night, Tribe radio announcer--- Its a mystery why this team with Colon , Buehrle and the offensive talent can't win.
I thought to myself, visit WSI and we'll tell you about Manuel.

B. Diddy
07-12-2003, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Does this team have a "fine jar"? You know, where if a guy hits into a DP with the bases loaded and 1 away, they have to put $100 or whatever in the jar. At the end of the season they throw a party or whatever with the money. This team could have a 7 course meal at the Ritz and have plenty left over for an open bar for several hours.

On my beer league softball team, the batter to make the last out in the last inning has to buy beer for the next game. Given that we have some serious drinkers on our team, that comes out to about $40 worth of Miller Lite per game. Not surprisngly, the last inning of each game tends to take a while, as everybody actually tries to just get on base safely. Nobody swings at bad pitches and nobody tries to crank the ball over the outfielders' heads.

I agree that the Sox could benefit from a similar incentive-based method to keep their hitters' heads out of their asses.

RKMeibalane
07-12-2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by B. Diddy
I agree that the Sox could benefit from a similar incentive-based method to keep their hitters' heads out of their asses.

If they decide to go this route, Carlos Lee will be buying the team beer for the remainder of the season. That guy does nothing but swing for the fences. Sadly, Frank and Maggs aren't far behind.

FoulTerritory
07-12-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Last night, Tribe radio announcer--- Its a mystery why this team with Colon , Buehrle and the offensive talent can't win.
I thought to myself, visit WSI and we'll tell you about Manuel.

We should just change the name of this site to "FIRE JERRY MANUEL INTERACTIVE"

Because really, that is the cause that binds us.

Brad

PS -- FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WILL SOMEONE PLEASE FIRE JERRY MANUEL!

Jerry_Manuel
07-12-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
What it the team is better after he leaves? I for one would like the chance to find that out. One thing for sure; they can't get any worse so deep-six this guy to prove that you still have a pulse.

Well, if the team plays better more power to them. I just want to see the same lineup out there everyday. Frank at 1st base and Carl in LF with Lee at DH.

Mammoo
07-13-2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
What happens when the team still sucks when Manuel is gone?

Who gets the blame then?

Excellent question!

That's why KW better have a viable replacement in mind. Someone with experience that doesn't need a "honeymoon period" in which to adjust to the big leagues.

spanishwhite
07-13-2003, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
What happens when the team still sucks when Manuel is gone?

Who gets the blame then?

*I'm not coming to Manuels' aide, I just want to know.

The new manager

But seriously, if a ballplayer is bad he gets sent down to the minors or put on waivers.

Jerry Manuel is a bad manager. Plain and simple. He cant play for the players but the man has had five or six years and has underperformed in all but one. He has had the same core players (ie Anaheim) and hasnt been able to consistantly perform.

How long are we going to play average to poor ball before you guys decide that Jerry has to go. He will NOT have post-season success. I remember after we acquired Colon, world series talk was being thrown around, and I was thinking how can we even make it there with Jerry at the helm.

He sort of reminds me of Dang. He has alot of talent (Im giving Jerry the benefit of doubt) but he has such poor managing fundamentals that he really hurts the team in many games.

I do feel sorry for Jerry though. He gets it real bad from the fans, and he tries to do what the fans want, it always seems like it is a tad to late.

hose
07-13-2003, 06:55 AM
When Hawk mentions how the Sox let down on the present road trip to teams that they should beat might be the kiss of death for Manuel.

I was surprised to hear Hawk and DJ actually tell it like it is.

gosox41
07-13-2003, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by hose
When Hawk mentions how the Sox let down on the present road trip to teams that they should beat might be the kiss of death for Manuel.

I was surprised to hear Hawk and DJ actually tell it like it is.

:hawk

JR isn't around to control my puppet strings. Wait until after All Star Break before I sugarcoat everything again.

Bob

TornLabrum
07-13-2003, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by hose
When Hawk mentions how the Sox let down on the present road trip to teams that they should beat might be the kiss of death for Manuel.

I was surprised to hear Hawk and DJ actually tell it like it is.

Not only that, after game 1 yesterday afternoon Bill Melton actually told Dave Wills that Manuel should stick to a set lineup instead of constantly changing it.

He reiterated what we've been saying here all along, that the players have to know their roles so they can settle into them.

He and Dave Wills questioned using CLee as the #2 hitter against lefties, especially after Wills dug up the stat that Lee is hitting well under .200 vs. lefties.

If the house organs are turning on Manuel, it's possible that his days are numbered.

All we need now is someone who Reinsdorf will hire, i.e. someone who will work cheap.

Paulwny
07-13-2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
What happens when the team still sucks when Manuel is gone?

Who gets the blame then?

*I'm not coming to Manuels' aide, I just want to know.

Then we'll definately know its the players and not the tinkering.

duke of dorwood
07-13-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Well, if the team plays better more power to them. I just want to see the same lineup out there everyday. Frank at 1st base and Carl in LF with Lee at DH.

I agree. I coached teams from 10 year old little league thru mens softball. One constant was when someone was changed in the batting order, had their position changed, or didn't play when producing, they were upset. Magnify that by the large ego of a major league player, and there's your problem. The changes are a distraction on a personal level. Magnify that by 3 or 4 changes a game, effecting 6 0r 8 players, there's your problem. It's the manager.

ChiSox14305635
07-13-2003, 10:12 AM
Okay, if we get rid of Manuel, then who is available to take the helm? Backman at Double A? Valentine? I'm pretty sure, Jim Leyland won't take the job considering Manuel was his bench coach, and wouldn't want to look like he was pushing his old assistant out of the way. I mean, if a change has to be made to continue this division run, so be it. Let's just make sure we get the right person in here. This road trip has been frustrating as hell to watch.

voodoochile
07-13-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Okay, if we get rid of Manuel, then who is available to take the helm? Backman at Double A? Valentine? I'm pretty sure, Jim Leyland won't take the job considering Manuel was his bench coach, and wouldn't want to look like he was pushing his old assistant out of the way. I mean, if a change has to be made to continue this division run, so be it. Let's just make sure we get the right person in here. This road trip has been frustrating as hell to watch.

I would bet that Bruce Kimm finishes the season and that they bring someone up to coach 3rd (Backman?) who can learn on the job...

RKMeibalane
07-13-2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Not only that, after game 1 yesterday afternoon Bill Melton actually told Dave Wills that Manuel should stick to a set lineup instead of constantly changing it.

He reiterated what we've been saying here all along, that the players have to know their roles so they can settle into them.


If Sox announcers are speaking out about Manuel's "tinkering," it's a good bet that something is going to happen in the near future. Manuel has had six years to get it right, and he hasn't been able to do it. The 2000 season was a fluke. Ken Williams has tried bringing in new players, and they've either been total disasters, or they've suddenly accquired poor baseball fundamentals, or both. The one common thread in all of this is Jerry Manuel. I don't know what goes on in Spring Training, but the Sox are never prepared to start the season, and that can be blamed on only one person.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-13-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
If Sox announcers are speaking out about Manuel's "tinkering," it's a good bet that something is going to happen in the near future. Manuel has had six years to get it right, and he hasn't been able to do it. The 2000 season was a fluke....

In retrospect what was a fluke about the 2000 season was Manuel's LACK of tinkering. He pretty much used the same line up for most of the year:

2B Durham
SS Valentin
DH Thomas
RF Ordonez
1B Konerko
3B Perry
LF Lee
CF Singleton
C Johnson/Paul/Fordyce

The first five line up slots (and the positions) were pretty much etched in stone the entire year.

Starting with the injuries to Eldred and Parque in April, 2001, it has been pretty much non-stop tinkering ever since.

:jerry
"Even having the #1 offense in the league in April, 2002 didn't prevent me from tinkering with it in May that same year!"

:ohno
"What a coincidence. That is precisely when our swoon began, too."

RKMeibalane
07-13-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
In retrospect what was a fluke about the 2000 season was Manuel's LACK of tinkering. He pretty much used the same line up for most of the year:

2B Durham
SS Valentin
DH Thomas
RF Ordonez
1B Konerko
3B Perry
LF Lee
CF Singleton
C Johnson/Paul/Fordyce

The first five line up slots (and the positions) were pretty much etched in stone the entire year.


I was thinking the same thing as I typed the above post. The 2000 season featured a lineup that rarely changed, at least until August. After the trade that brought Charles Johnson and Harold Baines to the South Side, Manuel started tinkering with the lineup because Paul Konerko wasn't able to play every day.

gosox41
07-13-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
If Sox announcers are speaking out about Manuel's "tinkering," it's a good bet that something is going to happen in the near future. Manuel has had six years to get it right, and he hasn't been able to do it. The 2000 season was a fluke. Ken Williams has tried bringing in new players, and they've either been total disasters, or they've suddenly accquired poor baseball fundamentals, or both. The one common thread in all of this is Jerry Manuel. I don't know what goes on in Spring Training, but the Sox are never prepared to start the season, and that can be blamed on only one person.


Don't bet on anything happening during the season with JM. Probably afterwards, but JR has a knack for being a stubborn old ogre who thinks he knows it all, but in reality knows nothing. He's got that smug "I'll show you attitude" but really all he's showing us is his incompetnece. JR knows jacks*** about what it takes to win. If he did he would have recognized that JM sucks and canned him back in April. Instead he's forced him down out throats.

I'll tell you what JR is showing me...That he's nothing but a bitter, stubborn, stingy, whiny, smug old man who really knows nothing about how to run a business unless it's real estate.

Bob

PaleHoseGeorge
07-13-2003, 03:23 PM
If history has taught us anything about the Reinsdorf regime, it's that Hawk Harrelson is the surest mouthpiece for what the Chairman is thinking. If Hawk is publicly complaining about Manuel's managerial decisions, it's a good bet he is in trouble with senior management.

Goes in here---> :reinsy

Comes out there---> :hawk