PDA

View Full Version : Joe Crede...Is anyone worried yet?


ssang
07-10-2003, 10:39 AM
Alright let's focus on Joe Crede here for a moment as long as were depressed (AGAIN!) about our White Sox. Am I the only one who is nervous that he is gonna suck forever? Granted he is young and he may turn it around in the next couple of years. He is certainly not hopeless as the talent is there. With that said, at this very moment, Joe Crede is HORRENDOUS!!! This kid is a rally killer if I have ever seen one. Does he try to hit EVERYTHING in the air? It seems that 99% of his AB's are either a pop-up or a strike-out. Who is giving him advice? My God, it's gotten tot he point that I don't even bother to watch his at-bats anyomore because I know he ain't getting on base. And when runners are on base and he comes up...FUHGET ABOUT IT! My question is do yo all think he is worth keeping out there or do we try to get some value for him. If someone put a gun to my head and I had to chose whether Crede will ever be even remotley good (.275 avg, 25 HR) or will he be a bust.......I would say he's going to end up a total bust. I hope I'm wrong but the bottom line is he SUCKS!

WhiteSoxWinner
07-10-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by ssang
This kid is a rally killer if I have ever seen one.

Have you met Paul Konerko, yet? He kills more rallys than the Seattle police department.


Originally posted by ssang
Who is giving him advice?

Probably Konerko. They strategize at night about new and creative ways to kill an at bat.

Originally posted by ssang
If someone put a gun to my head and I had to chose whether Crede will ever be even remotley good (.275 avg, 25 HR) or will he be a bust.......I would say he's going to end up a total bust. I hope I'm wrong but the bottom line is he SUCKS!

Given the history of baseball, this is a good bet, but I think Crede is just going through a sophomore jinx (he was here a good portion of last year) and will turn it around in the future. His defense is pretty good, he just needs the bat to get hot.

I worry more about Borchard than I do Crede.

dickallen15
07-10-2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by ssang
Alright let's focus on Joe Crede here for a moment as long as were depressed (AGAIN!) about our White Sox. Am I the only one who is nervous that he is gonna suck forever? Granted he is young and he may turn it around in the next couple of years. He is certainly not hopeless as the talent is there. With that said, at this very moment, Joe Crede is HORRENDOUS!!! This kid is a rally killer if I have ever seen one. Does he try to hit EVERYTHING in the air? It seems that 99% of his AB's are either a pop-up or a strike-out. Who is giving him advice? My God, it's gotten tot he point that I don't even bother to watch his at-bats anyomore because I know he ain't getting on base. And when runners are on base and he comes up...FUHGET ABOUT IT! My question is do yo all think he is worth keeping out there or do we try to get some value for him. If someone put a gun to my head and I had to chose whether Crede will ever be even remotley good (.275 avg, 25 HR) or will he be a bust.......I would say he's going to end up a total bust. I hope I'm wrong but the bottom line is he SUCKS!

His glovework hasn't been anything to write home about.

maurice
07-10-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
I worry more about Borchard than I do Crede.

Ditto.

Crede is struggling, but that's certainly not unusual for players in their first full season in the bigs. Crede should be good for .270-.290 AVE, 20-35 HR, and good D annually, after he settles in a bit more. That might not be spectactular, but it's much better than most teams get out of their 3Bs.

Hullett_Fan
07-10-2003, 11:34 AM
Unfortunately he's struggling at a time we need this offense going on all cylinders. Send him down and trade for Loretta!!

Randar68
07-10-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
Unfortunately he's struggling at a time we need this offense going on all cylinders. Send him down and trade for Loretta!!



Ugggghh!

Hangar18
07-10-2003, 12:19 PM
Crede im not worried about. He will come. He is the ONE guy you can have in your lineup, just to let him PLAY EVERYDAY, and get his AtBats and take his Lumps. He'll be ok.

Dadawg_77
07-10-2003, 12:28 PM
Crede hasn't figured out how to adapt to the major leagues yet. He was good last year when the league hadn't seen him. They did and the league is good enough to see a hitter weakness and expose it. Crede, and why most soph jinx occur, needs to learn how to adapt to the league adaptation, Major League Darwinism. If he can do that he will be successful major leaguer, if he can't he will be a could have been player.

LauraJ14
07-10-2003, 01:29 PM
I know that Sox fans like to compare Joe to Robin Ventura and I remember that Robin's batting numbers were not the greatest his first year. I just seem to rememeber that a couple of years Robin struglled to get his average to .250 by the end of the year.
I like Joe's defense and will take what I can get from him offensively. Because if not him, them who plays 3rd from us. I sure there's no one in the minors.

DirtySouthsider
07-10-2003, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Crede hasn't figured out how to adapt to the major leagues yet. He was good last year when the league hadn't seen him. They did and the league is good enough to see a hitter weakness and expose it. Crede, and why most soph jinx occur, needs to learn how to adapt to the league adaptation, Major League Darwinism. If he can do that he will be successful major leaguer, if he can't he will be a could have been player.



I think you nailed it on the head!!! We have to wait and see which way he goes.

jeremyb1
07-10-2003, 10:13 PM
there's good reason to worry about crede. he's been monumentally bad. this by no means normal for anyplayer, not even an inexperienced one.

MHOUSE
07-10-2003, 11:45 PM
Crede is solid of defense and his hitting will come around. In short streaks he has really hit well. The first few weeks of the season he was on fire and he seems to hit well for a series now and then. As he learns to adapt and change, he'll progressively do better. Look at Jon Garland who has turned the corner IMO. Crede will do the same. Borchard has yet to show me anything that wonderful. (small sample size tho)

jeremyb1
07-11-2003, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Crede is solid of defense and his hitting will come around. In short streaks he has really hit well. The first few weeks of the season he was on fire and he seems to hit well for a series now and then. As he learns to adapt and change, he'll progressively do better. Look at Jon Garland who has turned the corner IMO. Crede will do the same. Borchard has yet to show me anything that wonderful. (small sample size tho)

my biggest concern with crede is that he is on pace to walk only 25 times this season. that's chris singleton or mike caruso territory meaning that its quite possible that like caruso after his strong rookie season and other hitters lacking discipline, pitchers have simply learned not to throw crede any good pitches because he'll chase bad ones, fall behind in the count, and then get himself out. if that's the case, i'm not sure that there should be a tremendous amount of hope for a rebound.

additionally, plate discipline does not ussually slump like hitting does meaning that even if crede does rebound he's going to have to hit fora a lot more power than he has or hit around .300 just to be an average to above average offensive force.

hold2dibber
07-11-2003, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
my biggest concern with crede is that he is on pace to walk only 25 times this season. that's chris singleton or mike caruso territory meaning that its quite possible that like caruso after his strong rookie season and other hitters lacking discipline, pitchers have simply learned not to throw crede any good pitches because he'll chase bad ones, fall behind in the count, and then get himself out. if that's the case, i'm not sure that there should be a tremendous amount of hope for a rebound.

additionally, plate discipline does not ussually slump like hitting does meaning that even if crede does rebound he's going to have to hit fora a lot more power than he has or hit around .300 just to be an average to above average offensive force.

I agree completely. I don't know what to think about this guy at this point. He has been, without question, one of the worst everyday players in baseball this year. Sadly, the Sox don't have anyone else even near MLB ready at 3B. My question is, if Crede doesn't show signs of life by the end of the year, what do you do in '04?

Paulwny
07-11-2003, 07:52 AM
Too many people put stock into minor league numbers. Just because a player puts up good to great numbers, its never a guarantee that he'll be a good mlb player.
If Crede doesn't improve by the end of the year its further proof that all the hype about the vast majority of minor league players is BS.
Another hole the sox will have to address in 2004.

hold2dibber
07-11-2003, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Too many people put stock into minor league numbers. Just because a player puts up good to great numbers, its never a guarantee that he'll be a good mlb player.
If Crede doesn't improve by the end of the year its further proof that all the hype about the vast majority of minor league players is BS.
Another hole the sox will have to address in 2004.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that stat-heads have come up with "major league equivalencies" for minor league stats, based upon analysis of past performance. In other words, based upon analysis of the MLB performance compared to minor league performance of former players, they can predict with some accuracy what a player will do in the majors based upon his minor league numbers. Of course, there are lots of exceptions and variables, but as I understand it, it works relatively well for a decent number of players. (I'm going off a vague memory of a conversation I had a year or two ago, so if anyone has a better understanding of this issue, please chime in.)

harwar
07-11-2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by ssang
whether Crede will ever be even remotley good (.275 avg, 25 HR) or will he be a bust.......

one word.. ' next year ' (ok 2 words).

maurice
07-11-2003, 11:55 AM
I don't expect Crede ever to walk much. Then again, there are lots of really good players who don't walk much.

Paulwny
07-11-2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Actually, I'm pretty sure that stat-heads have come up with "major league equivalencies" for minor league stats, based upon analysis of past performance. In other words, based upon analysis of the MLB performance compared to minor league performance of former players, they can predict with some accuracy what a player will do in the majors based upon his minor league numbers. Of course, there are lots of exceptions and variables, but as I understand it, it works relatively well for a decent number of players. (I'm going off a vague memory of a conversation I had a year or two ago, so if anyone has a better understanding of this issue, please chime in.)

I'm sure there is data. However, it remains a crap shoot. Most of the pitching in the majors is far superior to that in the minors were throwers are learning to be pitchers.
Once an area or particular pitch is found that gives a batter problems he'll soon receive a steady diet of that type of pitch until he starts proving he can adjust. This is usually the cause of the sophmore jinx.
When someone like Frank or Robin put up the high numbers they did in the minors, I agree that its a good indicator but nothing is ever definate.