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View Full Version : Why does the offense suck so bad?


Konerkoholic
07-10-2003, 01:01 AM
All right, obviously the reason the Sox are horrible is the offense. It seems like EVERY game, we get quality starting pitching and half the time it is wasted. But how does a team with this many good hitters get their asses beat by the only team worse than them in many offensive categories?
The number 1 reason has to be double plays. Here's the situation: Runners at the corners, 1 out. Carlos Lee up. Might as well turn the TV to something else because you KNOW what is gonna happen next.
The Sox also make a lot of unproductive outs. Too many strikeouts and popups. Whenever the Sox get a leadoff double the next guy strikes out or pops up. Good offensive teams have got to manufacture the runs when necessary. This team is 5th in HRs and 13th in runs. That is what happens with bad baserunning and inability to get men over.
I could go on but these are probably the two main reasons the offense is non-existent. I put tinkering way down on the list because good hitters should beat bad pitchers regardless of where they are hitting. Bad umpiring and bad luck have been rampant this year as well. A Sox player gets robbed of extra bases every game, and there have been an inordinate amount of blown calls by the umps against us this year.

Meixner007
07-10-2003, 01:06 AM
I'll tell you the reason.

Plate discipline plain and simple. This team has none. What results from this lack of discipline...all the things you mentioned. Double plays, strike outs...it's all because this team doesn't know how to take a ****ing walk. It sort of reminds me of when I was little and played baseball with my neighbors and nobody wanted to get walked...they just wanted to hit homeruns. If they got ball 4 they wouldn't move. They'd stay up there until they put the ball in play or struck out...usually the latter of the two.

Thunderstruck30
07-10-2003, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by Meixner007
Plate discipline plain and simple.

Exactly. They hit into too many double plays, they watch the third strike, they strike out on pitches in the dirt, and they just cant bunt.

Jerko
07-10-2003, 01:18 AM
There are a few reasons I think the offense is bad.

1. They take way way too many pitches and can not bat with 2 strikes on them. A bad combination. Just notice the next game how many perfect pitches they watch go by that get called for strikes. Then watch the pitiful swings they take after 2 strikes because they are in a defensive mode.

2. No movement on the base paths, ever.

3. Not being able to bunt AND/OR not knowing when to bunt. I for one am sick of a leadoff double being followed by a botched bunt. Swing the bat! there's nobody out and the guy is already in scoring position.

4. We hardly ever swing the bat! Check it out next game. We'll make 3 outs and take 5 swings an inning doing it.

5. Nobody gives a rat's a$$

6. Too many one dimensional hitters. Jose can't bat righty, Evertt can't bat righty, alomar can't bat righty, Frank can't hit unless he plays first, etc. I wonder what Jose's average would be if he hit exclusively left handed? I wonder why more people don't try that. IF you are that bad from one side of the plate, don't bat righty!

7. Can't handle pressure. Every time this team is picked to do well, they choke. Same thing for batting with men on base.

8. too many guys go for homers all the time. If you get an outside pitch and try to hit it over the left field wall (as a righty), you will hit the ball to short almost every time. This usually happens with men at first and third or with the bases loaded.

9. Tinkering. It really does not help.

DonkeyKongerko
07-10-2003, 02:05 AM
I really thought Alomar would add some strength in these weak fundamental areas of this team. Defensively he has been great but when did Alomar turn into a strikeout machine?? Me thinks his batspeed has dropped a notch or two.

My question is: Who on this team would you characterize as being a good two strike hitter? Maybe these guys would be better off putting the ball in play instead of fouling off 2 good pitches every at bat.

Jurr
07-10-2003, 02:34 AM
They swung for the fences the last 10 or so games, and hit well. But, we all knew that we were looking at a bad omen. Usually, you start missing those homerun swings, and you're popping up and all of that business.
When we were hitting a ton of homers the last 8 games, I knew they were screwed for at least 6 or 7.

Meixner007
07-10-2003, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by Jurr
They swung for the fences the last 10 or so games, and hit well. But, we all knew that we were looking at a bad omen. Usually, you start missing those homerun swings, and you're popping up and all of that business.
When we were hitting a ton of homers the last 8 games, I knew they were screwed for at least 6 or 7.

I think we all knew, but we just didnt' want to admit it.....sigh...it was fun while it lasted.

WhiteSox = Life
07-10-2003, 02:58 AM
Well, now they need to discern that their home run swings are not working and start swinging more level and up the middle/the other way.

Of course, things like that, while easily recognized by fans, isn't that easy to do as players. You would think this kind of thing was being remedied, but it sure seems like it's not.

I honestly believe there are a bunch of people on these boards that could do better jobs in a few coaching positions than the currently employed on the White Sox could do.

Dadawg_77
07-10-2003, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
There are a few reasons I think the offense is bad.

1. They take way way too many pitches and can not bat with 2 strikes on them. A bad combination. Just notice the next game how many perfect pitches they watch go by that get called for strikes. Then watch the pitiful swings they take after 2 strikes because they are in a defensive mode.


Honestly, they take to few pitches. The Sox are coached to be to aggressive at the plate and on the base paths. For the BS DJ spouts about its good to be aggressive, I am not sure a hitter who hit 257, 298 OBP and a 403 slg avg is someone who knows who truly had a great approach at the plate. Think about it, the Sox best hitter and the best hitter though out the major leagues take pitches. They don't swing at anything thrown at them.

Hangar18
07-10-2003, 10:54 AM
Too many of the same kind of hitters in the lineup. Carlos Lee
NEEDS to realize that when hes hitting SMART, Going the Other way with his hits......HE IS VERY DANGEROUS. he compliments the power hitters nicely. But when hes swinging for HR's, he ends up striking out, not putting the ball in play.....doubleplaying
etc etc

JRIG
07-10-2003, 11:33 AM
This is pretty simple, I think. One walk last night, zero walks Tuesday night.

Outside of Frank and hopefully Robbie, we just don't have guys who get on base. Jimenez was a guy who could do that too, but I'm hopeful Alomar will be better than him in that aspect. It certainly doesn't help when Jerry starts Willie and bats him first or second as he does.

By the way, late in the game yesterday when Willie Harris came up to pinch hit, anybody wish we still had Jimenez to hit from the left hand side? Harris was the only LH stick on the bench last night, and he's certainly not a guy I want up there in a key situation. Come to think of it, he's not a guy I want up there in any situation.

guillen4life13
07-10-2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Too many of the same kind of hitters in the lineup. Carlos Lee
NEEDS to realize that when hes hitting SMART, Going the Other way with his hits......HE IS VERY DANGEROUS. he compliments the power hitters nicely. But when hes swinging for HR's, he ends up striking out, not putting the ball in play.....doubleplaying
etc etc

You nailed it. DJ (Darrin Jackson, not D'Angelo) has been knocking on this for the last few games.

And, as Jerko put it... tinkering does not help.

Jerko
07-10-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Honestly, they take to few pitches. The Sox are coached to be to aggressive at the plate and on the base paths. For the BS DJ spouts about its good to be aggressive, I am not sure a hitter who hit 257, 298 OBP and a 403 slg avg is someone who knows who truly had a great approach at the plate. Think about it, the Sox best hitter and the best hitter though out the major leagues take pitches. They don't swing at anything thrown at them.

I know the lack of walks is a concern here, but next time you watch the game just count how many # of swings they take in a given inning. Maybe I should clarify myself; they take too many GOOD pitches. Then before you know it it is 0-2 or 1-2 and that's all folks!

Dadawg_77
07-10-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
I know the lack of walks is a concern here, but next time you watch the game just count how many # of swings they take in a given inning. Maybe I should clarify myself; they take too many GOOD pitches. Then before you know it it is 0-2 or 1-2 and that's all folks!

True, but if the hitter is up there looking fastball inside, and get a curve ball over the outer half with less then two strikes, he should let the pitch go by. The Sox probably do need to become better hitters with two strikes, choking up and all, and also need to learn about going the other way. Weak ground balls are one results of a hitter trying to pull a pitch in which he should have gone the other way with. Instead of getting meat of the bat on the ball, the end of the bat hits it which cause a weak liner or ground ball.

WillieHarris12
07-10-2003, 01:44 PM
We are the most unlucky franchise in baseball.

Foulke You
07-10-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
I know the lack of walks is a concern here, but next time you watch the game just count how many # of swings they take in a given inning. Maybe I should clarify myself; they take too many GOOD pitches. Then before you know it it is 0-2 or 1-2 and that's all folks!

I agree Jerko. This team takes way too many quality pitches. I can't tell you how many times I see Jose, Carlos, and Maggs take strike 1 fastball right down the middle and then swing at the second pitch that is low and away. 0-2 before you know it and then they start playing guessing games and usually make an out. When our offense is at its best, we were killing that 1st pitch fastball.

And of course, the tinker factor comes into play on this. When you play two, then sit two, then play two you can't get any kind of offensive groove.

oheeoh...magglio
07-10-2003, 02:35 PM
everyone says walks are the problem, well both losses in tampa bay, we had 5 or more walks, the problem is this team has no clutch hitting as it is...and right now, it has no hitting at all.

gosox41
07-10-2003, 11:07 PM
:jerry
Here's three reasons the Sox offense sucks so bad: Tinker, Tinker, Tinker. Now I have to go plan my off days for Frank and Magglio.