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View Full Version : Does Neal Cotts justify the Koch-Foulke trade?


Steve Bartman
07-09-2003, 09:49 PM
Every Sox game when Koch struts out to the mound I get all upset wishing we still had All-star Keith Foulke. But does having Cotts justify this trade now?


I HATE KOCH :angry: :angry: :angry:

chisoxt
07-09-2003, 10:00 PM
Hell no!!!!!!! Remember, part of the justification for getting Kroch was that he was signed through next year and that Keith will walk after this year.....but we just gave away prospects to get two washed up veterans to help us win this year, not next year.

Daver
07-09-2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by chisoxt
but we just gave away prospects to get two washed up veterans to help us win this year, not next year.

What exactly did the Sox give up prospect wise?

And what was their projection as far as actually making it to the big league?

spanishwhite
07-09-2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by daver
What exactly did the Sox give up prospect wise?

And what was their projection as far as actually making it to the big league?

Well, we really don't know yet do we. If the 8 player pool is right, then Diaz has the best chance to make the majors.

But something we do know is that Everett is an average player who overachieved the first half. I thought he was a good defensive player, but apparently I was wrong. About the best thing he can do is hit home runs, something we dont need.

If he matches the first half with a second half that is similar Ill be (to quote Pacino in Heat) over @#$%ing whelmed.

Im not mad that we gave up something to get something.

Im just mad that we got this piece of garbage known as Carl "there were no dinosaurs" Everett.

MHOUSE
07-09-2003, 11:52 PM
The Alomar deal was a good one. Everett might be shipped right back out if we fall out of it like Vaughn was in Montreal last year. Giving up 6 prospects between them is a high price. Once again KW overpays to get mediocrity. Almonte all ready mde the majors a couple days ago with NYM.

Meixner007
07-09-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
The Alomar deal was a good one. Everett might be shipped right back out if we fall out of it like Vaughn was in Montreal last year. Giving up 6 prospects between them is a high price. Once again KW overpays to get mediocrity. Almonte all ready mde the majors a couple days ago with NYM.

I think that says more about the state that the mets are in rather than Almonte's ability right now

Brian26
07-09-2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
The Alomar deal was a good one. Everett might be shipped right back out if we fall out of it like Vaughn was in Montreal last year. Giving up 6 prospects between them is a high price. Once again KW overpays to get mediocrity. Almonte all ready mde the majors a couple days ago with NYM.

You mean Cliff Floyd.

You're absolutely right though. Kenny, hypothetically, could start the firesale in 2 weeks. I don't think that's going to happen though. This team is too good not to contend all the way to the end.

hold2dibber
07-10-2003, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
You mean Cliff Floyd.

You're absolutely right though. Kenny, hypothetically, could start the firesale in 2 weeks. I don't think that's going to happen though. This team is too good not to contend all the way to the end.

The only reason that this team might "contend" to the end is because it plays in a horse crap division. If the Sox were in almost any other division, they'd be way out of contention already.

Brian26
07-10-2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
The only reason that this team might "contend" to the end is because it plays in a horse crap division. If the Sox were in almost any other division, they'd be way out of contention already.

So? Who cares!

As long as we make the playoffs, we have a chance. Everyone is 0-0 when the playoffs begin.

We had the best record in the AL in 2000 and got swept out of the first round. We had the best record in baseball in '83 and only won one playoff game. We had the 2nd best record in the AL in 1990 and didn't even make the playoffs. We were destined for the playoffs in '94 before the strike ruined our chances.

Who cares what kind of division we have. Regular season stats are meaningless once the playoffs begin!!!

gosox41
07-10-2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by Cubsloseagain911
Every Sox game when Koch struts out to the mound I get all upset wishing we still had All-star Keith Foulke. But does having Cotts justify this trade now?


I HATE KOCH :angry: :angry: :angry:

Nope. The Sox thought they were a team that could win the division in 2003. If that's the case then it's ridiculous to make an offseason move trading a very good pitcher for an average (at best) pitcher.

Bob

gosox41
07-10-2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
So? Who cares!

As long as we make the playoffs, we have a chance. Everyone is 0-0 when the playoffs begin.

We had the best record in the AL in 2000 and got swept out of the first round. We had the best record in baseball in '83 and only won one playoff game. We had the 2nd best record in the AL in 1990 and didn't even make the playoffs. We were destined for the playoffs in '94 before the strike ruined our chances.

Who cares what kind of division we have. Regular season stats are meaningless once the playoffs begin!!!

The problem is that KW's stupid moves (eg Koch) are going to prevent this team from making the playoffs in a crappy division.

But I can confidently say that Billy Koch won't give up a single run this October.

Maybe that will provide consolation for all the people who think Koch is better then Foulke. I mean Foulke will probably give up a few hits and maybe a run in October. I'll go as far to say as Koch won't give up a hit or walk either so he definitely won't have any losses this October.

Bob

gosox41
07-10-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by chisoxt
Hell no!!!!!!! Remember, part of the justification for getting Kroch was that he was signed through next year and that Keith will walk after this year.....but we just gave away prospects to get two washed up veterans to help us win this year, not next year.

I love the idea of trading a good pitcher for a worse one then signing the worse one to a contract extension and paying him the same amount the good one was getting.

I don't understand why this team hasn't won under the KW regime.

Bob

RedPinStripes
07-10-2003, 10:55 PM
Justify what? This organization cannot develop any pitching. And I'm sick of all these "BIG PROSPECTS" that we wait for that end up being forgotten about , traded or cant ever get it together. We were supposed to have an Atlanta Braves type staff by now the way the organization hypes these kids. I'm sick of it. Rauch seems like a career minor leaguer. And can i dare bash "the next micky Mantle? He's Russel Branyon or Rob Deer as far as i can see. Now let the defense show for our average prospects.

Hangar18
07-11-2003, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I love the idea of trading a good pitcher for a worse one then signing the worse one to a contract extension and paying him the same amount the good one was getting.

I don't understand why this team hasn't won under the KW regime.

Bob

.....Ahhh. We've discovered one the the Many Many Faults
that BURDEN this team time and time again. The trading/signing of players based on $$$$$$$. This ALWAYS comes back to Haunt us. You would think this team would figure it out at some
point. And since were on this subject...Did we do any scouting on KOCH before we got him ?? He does NOT have a Fastball anymore. Hes got an excellent 85 mph BATTING PRACTICE FASTBALL. The kind that are NICE & STRAIGHT.....right over the
MIDDLE OF THE PLATE....so that you can EXTEND YOUR HANDS.....
Get the Maximum amount of POWER on your SWING....and DRIVE IT AS HARD AS YOU CAN. Those are the best kinds of pitches to drive. The key though...is to let KOCH throw that Equally SLOW Curveball and make him MISS with it. EVERYONE knows if HE ISNT LOCATING THE CURVE.....he'll Fall Behind in the count, and if its 2-1....LOOK OUT....You'll get that 86 mph "fast" ball.....and
get that Free Swing.... Everett is Sloooooowwwwww
as Molasses. We've lost 2 games already because HE COULDNT GET TO BLOOP hits. Runs scored on those occasions, and we lost those games......

Hangar18
07-11-2003, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
.....Ahhh. We've discovered one the the Many Many Faults
that BURDEN this team time and time again. The trading/signing of players based on $$$$$$$. This ALWAYS comes back to Haunt us. You would think this team would figure it out at some
point. And since were on this subject...Did we do any scouting on KOCH before we got him ?? He does NOT have a Fastball anymore. Hes got an excellent 85 mph BATTING PRACTICE FASTBALL. The kind that are NICE & STRAIGHT.....right over the
MIDDLE OF THE PLATE....so that you can EXTEND YOUR HANDS.....
Get the Maximum amount of POWER on your SWING....and DRIVE IT AS HARD AS YOU CAN. Those are the best kinds of pitches to drive. The key though...is to let KOCH throw that Equally SLOW Curveball and make him MISS with it. EVERYONE knows if HE ISNT LOCATING THE CURVE.....he'll Fall Behind in the count, and if its 2-1....LOOK OUT....You'll get that 86 mph "fast" ball.....and
get that Free Swing.... Everett is Sloooooowwwwww
as Molasses. We've lost 2 games already because HE COULDNT GET TO BLOOP hits. Runs scored on those occasions, and we lost those games......

Let Everett DH. KEEP THOMAS at First Base....

hold2dibber
07-11-2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
So? Who cares!

As long as we make the playoffs, we have a chance. Everyone is 0-0 when the playoffs begin.

We had the best record in the AL in 2000 and got swept out of the first round. We had the best record in baseball in '83 and only won one playoff game. We had the 2nd best record in the AL in 1990 and didn't even make the playoffs. We were destined for the playoffs in '94 before the strike ruined our chances.

Who cares what kind of division we have. Regular season stats are meaningless once the playoffs begin!!!

I was responding to your contention that this team is "too good" not to contend. My point was that they're not "too good" not to contend (because they're not good at all). But Ido agree that you may be right anyway, because it is possible that the division is too crappy for them not to contend (although, the Royals certainly look like a better team than the Sox do right now).