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View Full Version : Wills Sticking Up for JM Tonight


Viva Magglio
07-09-2003, 09:57 PM
:wills
"These players aren't getting the job done."

I agree with Dave on this. But the reason the players aren't getting the job done is because of JM, to a considerable extent. Jerry Manuel is the UN-motivating tinkerer.

dickallen15
07-09-2003, 10:04 PM
They sleep walk thru every game. What exactly is Manuel's job, is it to make out a new line-up every night? Is it to bring Koch in when we are up by a few runs? Its time for this zombie tinkerer to go, and take our chances with somebody with a pulse.

Jerko
07-10-2003, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
:wills
"These players aren't getting the job done."

I agree with Dave on this. But the reason the players aren't getting the job done is because of JM, to a considerable extent. Jerry Manuel is the UN-motivating tinkerer.

Wills said that? THESE players are not getting the job done!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! THESE players. And I thought J. Hood pissed me off tonight! So, that's a 25 man roster we are talking about, these players. Well, what about THESE players: Royce Clayton, Todd Ritchie, David Wells, Keith Foulke, Antonio Osuna, Chris Singleton, Ray Durham, Chad Bradford, Alan Embree, Rocky Biddle, Mark Johnson, Harold Baines, Jose Canseco, D'Angelo Jimenez, Bob Howry, Jeff Liefer, Kenny Lofton, Jim Parque, Cal Eldred, James Baldwin, Kip Wells, Sean Lowe, John Rauch, Mike Sirotka, and Josh Fogg? That makes 50 players AT LEAST that have been on this roster since 2001 and I'm not even counting the Borchards, Simmonses, or Abbots of the world. I know some of these guys are DOGS and some were/are hurt, but there are also at least 12 current and former all stars on that list of 50. Does the team look any different now than they did in 2001, a very disappointing year? NO. Has the team ever looked any different than they do now at any point since the playoffs of 2000 ended? No. So, 50 completely different players in the span of less than 3 YEARS on this roster and the team plays EXACTLY THE SAME EVERY YEAR FOR 3 YEARS NOW? Hmmm. I wonder why? Can it be that all 50 guys suck/sucked? We even changed base coaches and pitching and hitting coaches every year almost since then. I wonder who the ONE constant person is that can be the cause of the lethargy permeating the south side locker room for the past 3 years. It couldn't be that ONE guy, that ONE guy that fills out the lineups and then sleeps until the touch-tones on the bullpen phone wakes him up in the 7th inning. Nah, he doesn't bat so I guess he never makes a mistake. Why do we even need a manager with that BS logic. You know, there's a guy I work with who the whole world hates.........except the boss. Now I yell at the boss and say; are all 50 of us wrong, or is that guy just a jagoff? Same theory here. It can NOT be all the players fault. I'm not saying they are without blame, but this problem did not just start with the Tampa series and everybody who defends this Sleeping Fetus always seems to forget that. Whew I'm tired now. I hope MY boss lets me 'rest' tomorrow.

Konerkoholic
07-10-2003, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by dickallen15
They sleep walk thru every game. What exactly is Manuel's job, is it to make out a new line-up every night? Is it to bring Koch in when we are up by a few runs?
Yes. Billy Koch is called a closer. It's his job to get people out and hold the lead. I am not a JM defender, but I am not going to blame him when the Sox have a 3-1 lead in the 9th and they lose 4-3.

Lip Man 1
07-10-2003, 12:13 AM
Very well said!

Lip

Jerko
07-10-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic
Yes. Billy Koch is called a closer. It's his job to get people out and hold the lead. I am not a JM defender, but I am not going to blame him when the Sox have a 3-1 lead in the 9th and they lose 4-3.

I will if it's the 5th time it's happened and you keep doing it. 5 losses by a closer before the All Star break is a ton. Yes, the players have to perform, but if they are performing poorly, the manager has to know this and use him accordingly. It's a tough thing though, because I really like the guy and I thought he'd kick butt for us, but we don't have the luxury right now to let him 'pitch through it'; just the same way we really can't afford Paulie playing just to get him some at bats.

Konerkoholic
07-10-2003, 12:33 AM
What I will blame JM for is his inability to handle his players. For example, everyone knows Paul Konerko shouldn't be playing, let alone starting. Even PK knows that. But Manuel inserts him into the lineup once a week and it ends up hurting the team every time.
Another thing about JM is that he gives days off to our best players too frequently. It's as if Manuel is scared to hurt his player's feelings, so he feels he has to get PK or Graffanino or Rowand or Harris in there once or twice a week. These guys are bench players, and they can help us off the bench, but they shouldn't be getting starts.
And can someone tell me why Frank isn't playing first every game? Frank has been very vocal that it helps his hitting when he plays the field. Why hasn't JM responded to that? There seems to be very little communication between the manager and the players. Now I don't know this for a fact, because I don't have access to the clubhouse, but the players give it away. Earlier this year, Jon Garland was asked if Manuel communicates with his players. Garland hesitated and then said "yeah,....he talks to us.." He was very hesitant and it just told me that there is some lack of communication there.
A lot of us point to in-game mistakes made by Manuel that cost us games as the reason he should be fired. Every manager is going to make mistakes and blow some games. But I think all you have to do is look at JM's job title and question whether he is doing his job well. He is a manager. Is he really managing his players? Does he have these guys under control, ready and focused and playing together as a team? I don't see it. For this reason, I can't say that Manuel shouldn't be fired.

MHOUSE
07-10-2003, 12:39 AM
It doesn't take much for the players to get pumped for the Cubs series and the Twins series. JM has to be the one to get them focused and not take these EASILY WINNABLE 10 games before the break too lightly. It's his job to put away the inferior opponents. Yeah they're not performing, but he's the one fielding a different lineup every night and using the same 3 pitchers time and again. We should win 6 or 7 of these last 10 games. Now we need to sweep the Jndjans to do that. Losing two straight series to the two worst teams in baseball is pathetic. Kick some @$$ in the clubhouse Jerry for Pete's sake. "Well...um...we've tried to um...shake things up a bit, but yeah um...it hasn't always worked but um it's um....coming together and we still have time to um....win some ballgames and do the little things...um..." What a joke this is.

DonkeyKongerko
07-10-2003, 02:11 AM
Didn't JR's speech near the end of last year fire this team up? I mean if you can get fired up by THAT guy, it tells me that the guy managing the club could be the worst motivator in all of sports.

dickallen15
07-10-2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by DonkeyKongerko
Didn't JR's speech near the end of last year fire this team up? I mean if you can get fired up by THAT guy, it tells me that the guy managing the club could be the worst motivator in all of sports.

This was exactly my point above. Manuel's job is to get the players to play to the best of their ability with total effort. Has anyone seen that except for a few short stretches the last 3 years. The players like him and they should , he is a decent and nice man. They do not play to the best of their abilities for him though, they don't play with any compassion and it has been time for a change for at least two years. They should can him now, I really think he would be relieved, and replace him with someone with a more fiery personality. The problem isn't Wavin' Wally or Pettis or Nardi or Ward lets keep moving down the line. All but one of the dominoes has fallen and there is one remaining, and the same crap is happening on the field. Bring is someone who will hold players accountable for their crappy play, FIRE MANUEL.