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Lip Man 1
07-08-2003, 11:43 PM
Gang:

Just so everybody realizes this.

If the Sox don't start to pick it up in the next two weeks we can STILL have a fire sale / White Flag part II by the end of the month.

It's not like the Sox are paying a lot for Alomar or Everett are they?

Hell we've got a double header Saturday and the Sox don't even know who's going to pitch it!

The Sox are now 5 1/2 behind the Royals, that's a lot of ground to make up. Sure the Sox play K.C. seven out of the last ten games of the year but do you want to be in a position where you have to win six out of seven to catch them? or even to come close to them?

Funny the Royals don't seem to have troubles with the "easy" teams do they?

I just can't understand the Jeckell and Hyde nature of this club. I've GOT to think it has something to do with Manager Gandhi's constant changing of things.

Players don't know their roles, where they are hitting, what they are expected to do pitching wise.

And to make matters worse Gandhi publicly said his moves usually don't work out but he keeps doing them!

I just wish a reporter would have the guts to ask him WHY he keeps doing them after admitting they usually don't work.

Lip

ilsox7
07-09-2003, 12:04 AM
Dead on, Lip. This is why KW's strategy the last couple of weeks has been, as I call it, borderline brilliant. He has given this team, and Chicago, a chance at a run in the playoffs. However, if they don't take advantage of it with this cream puff schedule, he has every right to sell, and sell hard. He can simply sit back and say, look, I got the guys here and we couldn't even beat TB, Det, and Cleveland.

Then after the season he can fire manuel (as he should have done ages ago) and say it's the next step in rebuilding, thus adding a year or two onto his job.

Let's just hope these guys turn it around and are on even ground with KC come August 1.

delben91
07-09-2003, 06:36 AM
I've got to agree with you both. Kenny went out and got what the team needed. Yet you look at our recent games, losing 2 of 3 to TB, both losses by 1 run, then losing 2-1 to Det. It's a shame to waste such good pitching performances. Heck, to waste a season when the rotation finally steps up, notably Garland.

Maybe they can still make a run, but not when they're losing to the Detroits of the league.

THE_HOOTER
07-09-2003, 08:35 AM
Losing to the easy teams is bad enough, but the decisions on lineups is absolutely mind boggling.

Isnt it amazing how Manuel uses the same damn guys out of the bullpen, yet can't stick with a lineup for more than 1-2 days?

pl8ump1012
07-09-2003, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by ilsox7


Then after the season he can fire manuel (as he should have done ages ago) and say it's the next step in rebuilding, thus adding a year or two onto his job.




I read a sports column, probably over a month ago now, that said something about GM's get to go through 2 managers (rule of thumb, not actual rule). Thus, KW is keeping JM around longer to extend his tenure, despite the fact that JM isnt getting it done. Sounded believable, but I haven't done any research or anything to check the validity.

harwar
07-09-2003, 09:28 AM
I wonder if this team can rise above having Manuel at the helm.We could be 10 games back at the break.Also, i watch a lot of royals broadcasts and they are actively and aggressively looking for players.They think that they can(and will) win the division and they are definately going for it.

StillMissOzzie
07-10-2003, 12:16 AM
Lip,
I think you've hit the nail on the head. While I still think nothing will happen until after the AS game at the earliest, they will have finished this "easy team" road trip by then. At this moment, they are a pathetic 1-4 vs. the "easy teams". KW has given them every opportunity and they've pissed it away. Anybody else think they'll reel off 5 straight to make this a 6-4 road trip, particularly when 7-3 didn't sound that ridiculous a week ago?

Barring an 8-10 game winning streak, I predict that we're back into a selling mode between 7/16 and 7/31... with JM gone shortly thereafter.

:gulp:

soxnut
07-10-2003, 01:32 PM
At this point, I'd prefer this team start winning now. But if they don't, I'm not that upset.....if it means that the Sox will get rid of Manuel by the end of the season.

This guy has been given a new pitching coach, two hitting coaches, and 4 baseline coaches, and quite a few key players from aquisitions, nad the team is still inconsistent. It has to do with Manuel and his constant changing of the lineups....somehting he didn't do in 2000.

So good-bye Jerry, you're a nice guy, but not a good manager. :(:

gosox41
07-10-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by ilsox7
Dead on, Lip. This is why KW's strategy the last couple of weeks has been, as I call it, borderline brilliant. He has given this team, and Chicago, a chance at a run in the playoffs. However, if they don't take advantage of it with this cream puff schedule, he has every right to sell, and sell hard. He can simply sit back and say, look, I got the guys here and we couldn't even beat TB, Det, and Cleveland.

Then after the season he can fire manuel (as he should have done ages ago) and say it's the next step in rebuilding, thus adding a year or two onto his job.

Let's just hope these guys turn it around and are on even ground with KC come August 1.

I think you're giving KW too much credit. He's made some very poor decisions for this team. Decisions that I thought were poor just looking at the stats involved. Of course he's proving me right...or rather he's prving how important stats are in evaluating a player..

As Sox fans we're screwed as long as KW and/or JM are running the team. If the 2003 season hasn't been proof of it (other then 2 exciting weeks) look back over the last 2 1/2 years and the extended slumps, the bad chemistry, the bad trades, the bad signings, the number of coaches fired under the JM and KW era and most importantly the .500 record of a team that is in the EASIEST division in baseball.

How many wins do you think the Sox would have in 2001 and 2002 if they played in the AL West. I'm betting between 70-75 each season.

Bob

LASOXFAN
07-11-2003, 03:34 PM
I might be one of the few people on the planet who actually believes that Reinsdorf desperately wants to win a world series. He can't help that he's an idiot and makes the occasional bad hire. That said, I think KW knows that this is it for him. If he doesn't produce this year then he's gone, and JM with him. That's why I'm surprised that he continues to support Manuel, and albatross tied to his neck. With the exception of the first half of 2000, what has JM done to show he can win? And don't forget what he said going into the playoffs in 2000: "We're way ahead of schedule, we're not supposed to be here yet." Yeah, I'm sure Soscia said the same thing last year.

RKMeibalane
07-11-2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
At this point, I'd prefer this team start winning now. But if they don't, I'm not that upset.....if it means that the Sox will get rid of Manuel by the end of the season.

Unfortunately, I think there's a good chance that Manuel will be around next season. He is under contract through 2004, and Reinsdorf is too cheap to pay the remainder of his deal if he isn't managing this ballclub.

gosox41
07-11-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Gang:

Just so everybody realizes this.

If the Sox don't start to pick it up in the next two weeks we can STILL have a fire sale / White Flag part II by the end of the month.

It's not like the Sox are paying a lot for Alomar or Everett are they?

Hell we've got a double header Saturday and the Sox don't even know who's going to pitch it!

The Sox are now 5 1/2 behind the Royals, that's a lot of ground to make up. Sure the Sox play K.C. seven out of the last ten games of the year but do you want to be in a position where you have to win six out of seven to catch them? or even to come close to them?

Funny the Royals don't seem to have troubles with the "easy" teams do they?

I just can't understand the Jeckell and Hyde nature of this club. I've GOT to think it has something to do with Manager Gandhi's constant changing of things.

Players don't know their roles, where they are hitting, what they are expected to do pitching wise.

And to make matters worse Gandhi publicly said his moves usually don't work out but he keeps doing them!

I just wish a reporter would have the guts to ask him WHY he keeps doing them after admitting they usually don't work.

Lip

How can a ML basbeall team not know who is pitching the second game of a double header 24 hours in advance. What a joke JM is. Perhaps it's another reason he should be canned.

Bob

Lip Man 1
07-11-2003, 08:19 PM
If Uncle Jerry really cares about winning he can mortgage some of his numerous properties and holdings, tap into his bloated bank account swollen by incredible profits from lousy Bulls and Sox teams, and up the payroll into the stratosphere for a REAL shot at winning.

There's only so much ANYBODY can do with a 53 million dollar payroll no matter HOW creative that person is.

Stop paying "lip service" to winning jerry. Put your money where your mouth is and stop taking these half assed methods.

Lip

StillMissOzzie
07-11-2003, 11:55 PM
I believe that JR really, really wants to win a World Series, too. However, I believe even more that he wants to win it on HIS terms - by keepings costs down, by picking up other team's cast-offs, by squeezing a dollar bill so tightly that George Washington has tears in his eyes. That's why I don't think I'll see it happen.

:gulp:

SouthBendSox
07-12-2003, 12:03 AM
alomar wasnt needed

he sucks

Lip Man 1
07-12-2003, 12:11 PM
"Alomar wasn't needed..."

That's right! Duh Angelo Jimenez and Willie Harris were doing an outstanding job!

Lip

ChiSoxBobette
07-12-2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Gang:

Just so everybody realizes this.

If the Sox don't start to pick it up in the next two weeks we can STILL have a fire sale / White Flag part II by the end of the month.

It's not like the Sox are paying a lot for Alomar or Everett are they?

Hell we've got a double header Saturday and the Sox don't even know who's going to pitch it!

The Sox are now 5 1/2 behind the Royals, that's a lot of ground to make up. Sure the Sox play K.C. seven out of the last ten games of the year but do you want to be in a position where you have to win six out of seven to catch them? or even to come close to them?
Funny the Royals don't seem to have troubles with the "easy" teams do they?

I just can't understand the Jeckell and Hyde nature of this club. I've GOT to think it has something to do with Manager Gandhi's constant changing of things.

Players don't know their roles, where they are hitting, what they are expected to do pitching wise.

And to make matters worse Gandhi publicly said his moves usually don't work out but he keeps doing them!

I just wish a reporter would have the guts to ask him WHY he keeps doing them after admitting they usually don't work.

Lip

You would think by this time of the year Manuel would have a set line up but as we've seen in the past this guy is unreal when it comes to thinking he's got to tinker with the line up. Like soemone once said you can't fire a whole team so the manager has to go and in our case its sooooo true. Oh by the way we're losing the 1st game of the doubleheader to the indians 3 - 0 . So when will this travesty end with Manuel getting fired . I can't believe if we are swept by the indians he'll have ajob after the break.
:angry: :angry: :angry:

jeremyb1
07-12-2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by ilsox7
Dead on, Lip. This is why KW's strategy the last couple of weeks has been, as I call it, borderline brilliant. He has given this team, and Chicago, a chance at a run in the playoffs. However, if they don't take advantage of it with this cream puff schedule, he has every right to sell, and sell hard. He can simply sit back and say, look, I got the guys here and we couldn't even beat TB, Det, and Cleveland.

i think that plan is somewhat smart from a pr point of view but not from a baseball point of view. if kw trades alomar and everett, the odds are good he won't recieve as much as he gave up to get them and in the process we lost jimenez a player who has hit better than alomar this season.

if kenny is really smart he'll keep each player and risk either guy accepting arbitration to try to get compensation. its a high risk-high reward approach but i don't see the point in trading for more 25 year old AA players.