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RKMeibalane
07-08-2003, 09:00 PM
About a week ago, this board was alive with excitement. The Sox had just swept the Minnesota Twins, and after Ken Williams made two excellent trades, it looked as though the Sox were poised to take command of the AL Central. What happened?

:jerry

*TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER*

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen someone as clueless as Jerry Manuel. It seems as though every move he makes leads to disaster. Why does this man still have a job? The White Sox have more talent than any other team in their division, yet they can't even get over the .500 mark. Gee, I wonder why that is.

I am tired of Manuel's tinkering. It never works, yet he keeps doing it. Night after night, week after week, it's the same old ****. No matter how well the Sox play in a particular game, Manuel completely changes the lineup around the next time the team takes the field. Why? Because he "wanted to see what would happen." What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Carl Everett and Roberto Alomar are probably already wondering what they've gotten themselves into with this team. Everett wasn't in the lineup tonight "because he has been traveling a lot." Once again, what is that supposed to mean? Hasn't the entire White Sox team been traveling recently? I guess that means that no one should play tomorrow, and the Tigers can win the via forfeit. Somehow, I think that game would be more interesting than the one that took place tonight.

The Chicago White Sox have an excellent chance to make the postseason. Having said that, they aren't going to be winning any championships as long as Jerry Manuel is around. Great teams play with passion and intensity just about every night. I don't see that when I watch this team. Yes, they get up for the big games, but when it comes to the so-called easy games against Tampa and Detroit, their "A-game" is nowhere to be found.

oheeoh...magglio
07-08-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
About a week ago, this board was alive with excitement. The Sox had just swept the Minnesota Twins, and after Ken Williams made two excellent trades, it looked as though the Sox were poised to take command of the AL Central. What happened?

:jerry

*TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER*

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen someone as clueless as Jerry Manuel. It seems as though every move he makes leads to disaster. Why does this man still have a job? The White Sox have more talent than any other team in their division, yet they can't even get over the .500 mark. Gee, I wonder why that is.

I am tired of Manuel's tinkering. It never works, yet he keeps doing it. Night after night, week after week, it's the same old ****. No matter how well the Sox play in a particular game, Manuel completely changes the lineup around the next time the team takes the field. Why? Because he "wanted to see what would happen." What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Carl Everett and Roberto Alomar are probably already wondering what they've gotten themselves into with this team. Everett wasn't in the lineup tonight "because he has been traveling a lot." Once again, what is that supposed to mean? Hasn't the entire White Sox team been traveling recently? I guess that means that no one should play tomorrow, and the Tigers can win the via forfeit. Somehow, I think that game would be more interesting than the one that took place tonight.

The Chicago White Sox have an excellent chance to make the postseason. Having said that, they aren't going to be winning any championships as long as Jerry Manuel is around. Great teams play with passion and intensity just about every night. I don't see that when I watch this team. Yes, they get up for the big games, but when it comes to the so-called easy games against Tampa and Detroit, their "A-game" is nowhere to be found.

PREACH IT!!! Jerry Manule belongs managing a "so-called easy team" like tampa bay or detroit. I mean even his tinkering couldn't screw them up anymore, could it??? :?:

LuvSox
07-08-2003, 09:09 PM
I actually lost my mind tonight after seeing the lineup. I haven't yelled at the television that bad since Bevington was around.

RKMeibalane
07-08-2003, 09:10 PM
:hurt

"I'm leaving once the season is over."

:maggs

"I'm gone after next season. Frank and I are going to take our services to the West Coast."

:caballo

"Can I go, too?"

:hurt :maggs

"No!"

:caballo

"Somebody get me out of here!"

:reinsy

"Muhahahahahahahahaha!"

oheeoh...magglio
07-08-2003, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
I actually lost my mind tonight after seeing the lineup. I haven't yelled at the television that bad since Bevington was around.

this may sound crazy, but after nights like this where manuel has THAT BAD of a lineup...i can't decide if bevington or manuel is worse

southsidegirl
07-08-2003, 09:14 PM
[SIZE=3][COLOR=royalblue]will they fire him already?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! the last and only time he's won the division for us was in 2000! that was 3 years ago!!!!!! its like running around in circles for endless hours, days, weeks, months, YEARS! this guy needs to go...

LuvSox
07-08-2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by oheeoh...magglio
this may sound crazy, but after nights like this where manuel has THAT BAD of a lineup...i can't decide if bevington or manuel is worse

Not crazy at all.

ilsox7
07-08-2003, 09:15 PM
It's games like this that I would hope Frank and Maggs go talk to KW and just say, "this is ridiculous. He's gone or we are, make up your mind."

First step: Fire Manuel.

Second Step: Get a manager who makes the players read scouting reports about the pitchers they face.

Jerko
07-08-2003, 09:16 PM
We should write a song about Jerry to the tune of twinkle twinkle little star.

Tinker, tinker, bench your stars
Your job should be washing cars

All those trades that looked so right
Shot to hell in just one night

Never knew it was so hard
to fill out one damned lineup card

2nd verse

If I ever left my seat
It's not an ump I'd try to beat

In the dugout I would go
Wake you up then thrash you so

Tinker tinker piece of crap
Sorry I disturbed your nap

RKMeibalane
07-08-2003, 09:17 PM
There is a small chance that this crap will end. If we can convince Frank Thomas that Jerry Manuel's head is actually a giant baseball, maybe he'll hit it hard somewhere. Then all of our problems will be solved.

RKMeibalane
07-08-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
We should write a song about Jerry to the tune of twinkle twinkle little star.

Tinker, tinker, bench your stars
Your job should be washing cars

All those trades that looked so right
Shot to in just one night

Never knew it was so hard
to fill out one damned lineup card

2nd verse

If I ever left my seat
It's not an ump I'd try to beat

In the dugout I would go
Wake you up then thrash you so

Tinker tinker piece of crap
Sorry I disturbed your nap

This is the Post of the Year, folks. I was laughing so hard I started to cry.

joecrede
07-08-2003, 09:23 PM
What is the exact complaint against Manuel in this game? Everett shouldn't play center in all 3 games at spacious Coamerica park and with a lefty on the mound it made sense to play Rowand here.

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
What is the exact complaint against Manuel in this game? Everett shouldn't play center in all 3 games at spacious Coamerica park and with a lefty on the mound it made sense to play Rowand here.

Okay, so why not DH Everett and put Frank at 1B?

oheeoh...magglio
07-08-2003, 09:25 PM
:jerry

"my brilliant lineup kept us in the game 2nite, proving tinkering works, but we just couldn't get the big hit late in the game. Maybe we need more pitching."

:jaime

"i'm available..."

does anybody else want to :chunks when they see manuel make decisions??

Jerko
07-08-2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
This is the Post of the Year, folks. I was laughing so hard I started to cry.


Too bad they took out the bad word I had in there. I used asterisks but it is still gone so I changed it to hell

oheeoh...magglio
07-08-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
We should write a song about Jerry to the tune of twinkle twinkle little star.

Tinker, tinker, bench your stars
Your job should be washing cars

All those trades that looked so right
Shot to hell in just one night

Never knew it was so hard
to fill out one damned lineup card

2nd verse

If I ever left my seat
It's not an ump I'd try to beat

In the dugout I would go
Wake you up then thrash you so

Tinker tinker piece of crap
Sorry I disturbed your nap

that is excellent song writing my friend, u have ne record deals in the works???

chisoxt
07-08-2003, 09:28 PM
The moves that KW made to improve the club ultimately will mean nothing unless he removes his idiot manager. It's ironic how while Kenny works hard to improve the team (though I am not too crazy about the deals he has made), his hard work will be undermined by the questionable managing of Mr. Tinkers.

RKMeibalane
07-08-2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Okay, so why not DH Everett and put Frank at 1B?

Exactly. I don't mind seeing Frank get the occassional start at DH, but he should be playing first base most of the time. There's no reason to keep him off the playing field. He's a much more effective hitter when he plays first. Yet, Manuel continues to use him as the DH. I'm beginning to think that Manuel wants to get fired.

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Exactly. I don't mind seeing Frank get the occassional start at DH, but he should be playing first base most of the time. There's no reason to keep him off the playing field. He's a much more effective hitter when he plays first. Yet, Manuel continues to use him as the DH. I'm beginning to think that Manuel wants to get fired.

Heck, Everett over Konerko is the half I want to see, but you are correct about the rest of it too.

joecrede
07-08-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Okay, so why not DH Everett and put Frank at 1B?

If Konerko doesn't play against the first lefty the team sees after his big homer then you can forget about trying to salvage anything from him this year.

RKMeibalane
07-08-2003, 09:35 PM
This is the lineup Manuel should use for the rest of the year:

2B- Alomar
SS- Valentin
1B- Thomas
RF- Ordonez
CF- Everett
LF- Lee
DH- Daubach
3B- Crede
C- Olivo

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
If Konerko doesn't play against the first lefty the team sees after his big homer then you can forget about trying to salvage anything from him this year.

okay, fine. Have a nice life, Paulie...

There now, that wasn't so hard was it?

The time to play him was last Friday when he still had that feel good thing going in his veins. Using the L/R matchup is just more pathetic tinkering at this point in time. And, HE PLAYED ON SUNDAY going 0-4.

:firejerry

idseer
07-08-2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
If Konerko doesn't play against the first lefty the team sees after his big homer then you can forget about trying to salvage anything from him this year.

is paul's contract guaranteed for the whole 3 years? if not i say, rather than playing him in ANY crucial capacity, we put our best team out there for EVERY GAME! even if the little sissies complain they're tired! dump paul at the first opportunity.

WhiteSoxWinner
07-08-2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
If Konerko doesn't play against the first lefty the team sees after his big homer then you can forget about trying to salvage anything from him this year.

The problem is that a) JM put the weakest lineup out there possible and b) PK had done NOTHING all game up to the 7th and JM let him hit.

If JM wants to get PK at bats, that's fine, but you cannot sned out a lineup with all those weak hitters at the same time (PK, Olivo, Crede). If he wants PK in, then Alomar Jr catches to try to make up for some of that weak hitting.

If the game is on the line, JM has to remember who is on the bench and get them in the game. Letting PK hit cost us a chance to win the game.

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
This is the lineup Manuel should use for the rest of the year:

2B- Alomar
SS- Valentin
1B- Thomas
RF- Ordonez
CF- Everett
LF- Lee
DH- Daubach
3B- Crede
C- Olivo

THANK YOU!

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
If JM wants to get PK at bats, that's fine...

No, it's not fine. It's ground for termination with extreme prejudice. It's a sure fire sign that the manager is a raving blooming idiot. It's... It's... It's...

(Voodoo's head explodes and the season continues along its tinkering way...)

mack10zie
07-08-2003, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
The problem is that a) JM put the weakest lineup out there possible and b) PK had done NOTHING all game up to the 7th and JM let him hit.

He hadn't gotten a base hit, but in his first two ABs he hit the ball pretty solidly, sending the first one about 415 ft to dead center and the second one to the warning track in right center. I saw nothing wrong with him continuing to bat in that sitaution

joecrede
07-08-2003, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
okay, fine. Have a nice life, Paulie...

There now, that wasn't so hard was it?

The time to play him was last Friday when he still had that feel good thing going in his veins. Using the L/R matchup is just more pathetic tinkering at this point in time. And, HE PLAYED ON SUNDAY going 0-4.



So in essence the Sox are playing with a 24 man roster the rest of the way?

Everett struggles against lefties. Playing Konerko was the right thing to do tonight.

Daver
07-08-2003, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by idseer
is paul's contract guaranteed for the whole 3 years? .

All baseball contracts are guaranteed contracts.

xil357
07-08-2003, 09:48 PM
I've been one of the most loyal Manuel supporters but the constant lineup changes have got to stop. Frank needs to be at 1B and PK needs to ride the pine. Everett can swap between CF and DH but should bat in the same spot every day. Maggs needs to be in RF and batting cleanup every day. The best lineup needs to be out there in the same order every single day.

MarkEdward
07-08-2003, 09:48 PM
Yeah, who really cares about Roberto Alomar going 0-4 with three strikeouts, or that Frank Thomas went 0-3. Surely that must be Jerry's fault.

Reichardt
07-08-2003, 09:51 PM
I can't understand how Manuel is so obsessed with rest. Its ok to sit a catcher every once in a while - that's it. The rest of the players should be able to play 150+ games. Put the best lineup out there and get on with it already!

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
So in essence the Sox are playing with a 24 man roster the rest of the way?

Everett struggles against lefties. Playing Konerko was the right thing to do tonight.

Cut his ass, I don't care. Whatever stops Manuel from playing him.

]Originally posted by MarkEdwardYeah, who really cares about Roberto Alomar going 0-4 with three strikeouts, or that Frank Thomas went 0-3. Surely that must be Jerry's fault.

Okay, so maybe this one wasn't entirely Jerry's fault, but want to play the game again with the lineup posted earlier in this thread and see if the Sox only score 1 run? I do.

RKMeibalane
07-08-2003, 09:52 PM
This is what happens to Jerry Manuel each day the Sox have a game:

7:00 AM

:jerry

"Man, did I sleep great or what? I need to start thinking about today's lineup."

10:30 AM

:jerry

"Today is Tuesday. The last time I played Konerko on a Tuesday, we lost. I'm going to play him again just to see what happens this time."

4:15 PM

:jerry

"I've got it! If I play Konerko, Olivo, and Rowand at the same time, we just might be able to win this game. The way I see it, the other team's pitchers will be so worried about Frank and Magglio that they won't even notice our other guys."

WhiteSoxWinner
07-08-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by mack10zie
He hadn't gotten a base hit, but in his first two ABs he hit the ball pretty solidly, sending the first one about 415 ft to dead center and the second one to the warning track in right center. I saw nothing wrong with him continuing to bat in that sitaution

Every game Konerko plays, all I hear is, "Oh!! Paulie smoked that one right at [insert opposing player's name here]!!" or "Oh!! Just a foot or two away from being a homerun."

Forget it!! He hasn't got it this year, and he should not be in there in key situations.

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Every game Konerko plays, all I hear is, "Oh!! Paulie smoked that one right at [insert opposing player's name here]!!" or "Oh!! Just a foot or two away from being a homerun."

Forget it!! He hasn't got it this year, and he should not be in there in key situations.

Just once I want to hear, "Line drive to right field. That's going to score a pair. Way to go Paulie." Until he does that, he shouldn't be playing...

WhiteSoxWinner
07-08-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Yeah, who really cares about Roberto Alomar going 0-4 with three strikeouts, or that Frank Thomas went 0-3. Surely that must be Jerry's fault.

Well, putting Frank at DH is JM's fault. We have clearly seen that Frank bats better when he plays 1st. In addition, if we didn't have three nearly guaranteed outs every time through the lineup in Konerko, Crede, and Olivo, it might not be as bad if Frank, Alomar, or any other player goes 0'fer.

idseer
07-08-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Well, putting Frank at DH is JM's fault. We have clearly seen that Frank bats better when he plays 1st. In addition, if we didn't have three nearly guaranteed outs every time through the lineup in Konerko, Crede, and Olivo, it might not be as bad if Frank, Alomar, or any other player goes 0'fer.

well .... actually he had a couple good games that seemed to coincide with his starting at first. his last 3 games at first he hit under .200.

can anyone show a breakdown (recent) of how much better he hits when he's at first? cause i do recall in '01 he played at first and stunk all the way up to when he was injured.

FoulTerritory
07-08-2003, 10:35 PM
I'm not sure if anyones mentioned this yet, but frankly, I think Graffinino is getting WAY too much playing time as well. Even tonight -- I understand he started because Valintin usually sucks against leftys, however, Valentin had a huge game on Sunday and has been swinging the bat well recently. Maybe this is a night to let him have a go at left handed pitching. Do we have to allow other teams' rotations dictate our lineup in every possible instance?

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by idseer
well .... actually he had a couple good games that seemed to coincide with his starting at first. his last 3 games at first he hit under .200.

can anyone show a breakdown (recent) of how much better he hits when he's at first? cause i do recall in '01 he played at first and stunk all the way up to when he was injured.

This years stats:

By Position AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
As First Baseman 88 18 32 10
0
8
22
21
2
22
0
0
.364
.495
.750
1.245 OPS

As DH 187 26 46 12
0
12
26
40
6
37
0
0
.246
.390
.503
.893 OPS

In 2001 he had 9 AB at 1B before being injured. Your bias is showing... :D:

Frank's Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4527)