PDA

View Full Version : I Didnt Know They Hired Oompa Loompas As Umps!


southsidegirl
07-08-2003, 09:47 PM
i am FLIPPIN mad at this midget! he is seriously out of line! he calls out frank like that without even asking the first base ump! then frank gets in his face and starts yellin at him and he goes with this fine-if-you-want-it-that-way attitude and calls out maggs for the same thing! then he called out el caballo on an outside strike! i wanna smash his face to the back of his tiny little head. man, if i could give him a piece of my mind........ :angry:

oheeoh...magglio
07-08-2003, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by southsidegirl
i am FLIPPIN mad at this midget! he is seriously out of line! he calls out frank like that without even asking the first base ump! then frank gets in his face and starts yellin at him and he goes with this fine-if-you-want-it-that-way attitude and calls out maggs for the same thing! then he called out el caballo on an outside strike! i wanna smash his face to the back of his tiny little head. man, if i could give him a piece of my mind........ :angry:

i agree with all that, but it shouldn't come to the point where u have to come from behind against the g#$ d@*$ tigers!! :angry:

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 10:09 PM
He got both calls correct. They both swung. Nice to see Jerry decide to get out there to fire up the team in that situation, No?

Lip Man 1
07-08-2003, 10:10 PM
Stop it...PLEASE STOP IT!!!

When you score ONE RUN against the Tigers and another garbage starting pitcher, it's NOT the umpires!

Stop with the excuses.

Lip

LuvSox
07-08-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
He got both calls correct. They both swung. Nice to see Jerry decide to get out there to fire up the team in that situation, No?

No way Maggs swung. Typical of JM to wait until there was two outs in the ninth to fire the guys up.

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
No way Maggs swung. Typical of JM to wait until there was two outs in the ninth to fire the guys up.

Maggs bat clearly was past the edge of the plate. Even more so than Frank. I saw the replay. He had nothing to gripe about. Neither did Frank.

The ump called it like he saw it and he saw it correctly, both times. Of course that is JMHO.

However, Lip is correct. Whining about borderline blown strike calls on swing no swing situations is really pathetic. Sox need to be able to score more than 1 run against the Kitties and their collection of AAAA pitchers...

LuvSox
07-08-2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Whining about borderline blown strike calls on swing no swing situations is really pathetic. Sox need to be able to score more than 1 run against the Kitties and their collection of AAAA pitchers...

Exactly.....

mack10zie
07-08-2003, 10:40 PM
I just got back from the game and I was sitting at almost the perfect angle to see the two check swing attempts and was only like 12 rows up from the field so I was pretty close to the action. Now I don't know if they went across or not, but I do know that it was VERY VERY close and I'd say that in almost 99 out of 100 close plays like that the ump will ask the first base umpire since he has a better angle to make the call. Maybe they both went, maybe one went, but it sure as hell was close and there is no reason that I can possibly think of as to why he didn't confer with the first base umpire and although it may not have changed the outcome of the game it was in a critical situation and should have been handled properly. Also, I found it quite strange that both times the players were arguing the third base umpire ran down the line to sort of break up the argument while the first base umpire just sttod there and did nothing. Maybe its just because he knew he was sort of part of the call and didn't want to get involved, or maybe he felt that maybe the players and JM had a good point.

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by mack10zie
I just got back from the game and I was sitting at almost the perfect angle to see the two check swing attempts and was only like 12 rows up from the field so I was pretty close to the action. Now I don't know if they went across or not, but I do know that it was VERY VERY close and I'd say that in almost 99 out of 100 close plays like that the ump will ask the first base umpire since he has a better angle to make the call. Maybe they both went, maybe one went, but it sure as hell was close and there is no reason that I can possibly think of as to why he didn't confer with the first base umpire and although it may not have changed the outcome of the game it was in a critical situation and should have been handled properly. Also, I found it quite strange that both times the players were arguing the third base umpire ran down the line to sort of break up the argument while the first base umpire just sttod there and did nothing. Maybe its just because he knew he was sort of part of the call and didn't want to get involved, or maybe he felt that maybe the players and JM had a good point.

The ump is not allowed to confer unless asked by the catcher. His job as described in the rule book is to make that call when he thinks it is right. Do we really want umps who are more hesitent and less likely to make the calls they are supposed to make?

mack10zie
07-08-2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The ump is not allowed to confer unless asked by the catcher. His job as described in the rule book is to make that call when he thinks it is right. Do we really want umps who are more hesitent and less likely to make the calls they are supposed to make?

I don't want him calling strikes on questionable and very close plays that he does not have thebest angle on. Had he not called them I was of course assuming that the catcher would appeal and then the first base ump would be able to make the call. I just think that they were too close for the umpire to definitively call, and if it really was too close for him to call, then he shouldn't be making the call. And seriously, I had a tremendous angle on the play and I thought that both swings were most definately NOT definitive.

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by mack10zie
I don't want him calling strikes on questionable and very close plays that he does not have thebest angle on. Had he not called them I was of course assuming that the catcher would appeal and then the first base ump would be able to make the call. I just think that they were too close for the umpire to definitively call, and if it really was too close for him to call, then he shouldn't be making the call. And seriously, I had a tremendous angle on the play and I thought that both swings were most definately NOT definitive.

I thought the replays were pretty clear that both guys bats were past the front edge of the plate before they stopped them.

Viva Magglio
07-08-2003, 10:54 PM
I don't know what happened tonight because I did not see the game. But I saw the highlight of Mágglio Ordóńez going Pinella on the home plate umpire. It does look like Maggs went around on the call, but you know the umpiring sucks when Mágglio's behavior is 180 degrees different from normal. That would sort of like Mother Teresa going full scale Leona Helmsley.

:maggs
"Dumbass piece of crap umpire!!!"

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 10:55 PM
:maggs
"I'm really pissed because I can't take a full swing at Jerry's head. The ump just made for a convenient target."

Clembasbal
07-08-2003, 10:58 PM
Not that it matters, because they played like crap today anyway, but both Frank and Mags did not break their wrists with the check swings. Therefor, even though one might argue that the bat crossed the plate (which they did not...I saw the replay as well) -- they cannot be called swings.

Peace! :D:

voodoochile
07-08-2003, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Clembasbal
Not that it matters, because they played like crap today anyway, but both Frank and Mags did not break their wrists with the check swings. Therefor, even though one might argue that the bat crossed the plate (which they did not...I saw the replay as well) -- they cannot be called swings.

Peace! :D:

Breaking your wrists has nothing to do with whether the umps consider it a swing. It has to do with whether you offered at the pitch. When your bat goes past the edge of the plate, you swung...

Viva Magglio
07-08-2003, 11:19 PM
Suppose Mágglio tried what he did tonight on Ed Hochuli. Just a thought.

FoulTerritory
07-09-2003, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Breaking your wrists has nothing to do with whether the umps consider it a swing. It has to do with whether you offered at the pitch. When your bat goes past the edge of the plate, you swung...

Voodoo is right. Confusion exists because the rule was changed in the late eighties. Up until, I think 1989, the rule had always been that it was a strike if the batter broke his wrist, but due to difficulty in discerning whether or not a player broke his wrists and the corresponding arguments, the rule was changed so that it is officially a swing if the barrel of the bat crosses the front edge of the plate, which is supposedly easier for umps to call.

WhiteSox = Life
07-09-2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by FoulTerritory
Voodoo is right. Confusion exists because the rule was changed in the late eighties. Up until, I think 1989, the rule had always been that it was a strike if the batter broke his wrist, but due to difficulty in discerning whether or not a player broke his wrists and the corresponding arguments, the rule was changed so that it is officially a swing if the barrel of the bat crosses the front edge of the plate, which is supposedly easier for umps to call.

Every umpire has a different view of the strike zone, as well as check-swings. And, due partly to human error, or course, a lot of times strike zones and check-swings can seem to change pitch to pitch, swing to swing.

It's become so very prevalent now, though. I'm beginning to wonder if some of the umpires have ever read the official rulebook.

voodoochile
07-09-2003, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
Every umpire has a different view of the strike zone, as well as check-swings. And, due partly to human error, or course, a lot of times strike zones and check-swings can seem to change pitch to pitch, swing to swing.

It's become so very prevalent now, though. I'm beginning to wonder if some of the umpires have ever read the official rulebook.

You are seriously asking if the best 100 baseball umpires in the world have ever read the rule book? On average about 3 ump positions turn over a year. The guys who come in are from the best of the best of college and minor league systems.

They don't just pick some wino off the street and hand him a black hat...

Brian26
07-09-2003, 01:26 AM
Voodoo,

I respect your opinion. I saw both replays also. Magglio's was very close, but I agree that it was indeed a swing. Frank, on the otherhand, did not swing. He definitely checked up. He strode forward, but the bat didn't cross the plate.

Dan H
07-09-2003, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Stop it...PLEASE STOP IT!!!

When you score ONE RUN against the Tigers and another garbage starting pitcher, it's NOT the umpires!

Stop with the excuses.

Lip

I completely agree. The Sox have gotten few breaks from umpires this year, but the best thing to do in this case is to forget this game, and start beating up on Detroit like they are supposed to. And Hawk and DJ and Ed and John ought to stop their complaining about the umps. There is no excuse for losing three one-run games in less than a week to the likes of the Tigers and Devil Rays.

pl8ump1012
07-09-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


The ump is not allowed to confer unless asked by the catcher.
The ump is allowed to confer whenever he wants. I have never seen it happen for a batter asking for an appeal. I have seen it happen without the catcher asking. I would think the ump would have a hell of a hole to dig himself out of if he called a swing, appealed to first on the batter's request, and then changed the pitch to a ball.

Originally posted by Clembasbal
Frank and Mags did not break their wrists with the check swings.


Doesn't matter. It is whether or not the batter attempts to "strike" at the pitch. It is commonly called if the bat just goes half way around. Wrists have NOTHING to do with it.

:gulp:

jabrch
07-09-2003, 10:39 AM
Why is it that a catcher can appeal an umpires call on the check swing, but a hitter can not? It doesn't seem right to me...never has... I know those are the rules, but...

pl8ump1012
07-09-2003, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
Why is it that a catcher can appeal an umpires call on the check swing, but a hitter can not? It doesn't seem right to me...never has... I know those are the rules, but...

I agree. Defense is generally given the benefit in most cases though. Ex: On a force, runner has to beat the tag of the bag in order to be safe, not the defense has to tag the bag before the runner in order to get him out. So if there is a "tie" (which there arent :smile: ) it goes to the defense.

:gulp:

Hangar18
07-09-2003, 12:22 PM
I hate to complain as much as the next guy, but CMON!
These Umps have to do their jobs.......simple as that. And theyre
NOT SUPPOSED TO INSTIGATE INCIDENTS with other players/teams.

maurice
07-09-2003, 12:57 PM
I agree that the ump did not lose the game for the Sox, but he definitely sucked in the 9th. Close calls on check swings by righthanded batters should be referred to the 1B ump. Frank's comments in the paper are absolutely right. You will never again see a home plate ump call two consecutive batters out on attempted check swing strikes. The 1B ump always makes that call on close plays.

When Maggs got mad, the ump moved TOWARDS Maggs and only tossed him (pointlessly, given the two outs in the 9th) AFTER Maggs started to walk away. Then he proceeded to jaw with the Sox dugout throughout CLee's AB. This guy's a punk who needs to be sent back to the bush leagues.

Brian26
07-09-2003, 01:11 PM
He's definitely a punk. Did you notice how he stared into the Sox dugout for 30 seconds straight before CLee stepped into the batter's box? There was a strange croch-grab in there too, but I think it was unintentional. What a dueche.

Gumshoe
07-09-2003, 01:41 PM
From my understanding, defense, DOESN'T get benefit of anything, unless you are talking about throws that beat the runner and even though the tag is late they still get the call. A tie goes to the runner at 1st. That makes me think it's offensive-biased in calls because the game in general is defensively biased all the way around (hard to get hits).

As for what happened last night, the Thomas call was complete HORSECRAP. He was getting out of the way and the bat still didn't go half way. The Maggs call was just frustration --- he went around. The Thomas thing was CRUCIAL though because he was the leadoff guy and he went from 0-2 to a walk that would have started the inning off well (knowing us Maggs would have hit into a double play though). But the fact that he didn't ask for help on Thomas's swing was totally ludicrous. In any case, Jerry Manuel is a dimwit. He can't get the team ready or the right lineup in. I have a feeling not much will change until KW and JM are GONE. Why should I believe things will just turn around when expectations have been there for 3 years and we're just a .500 club?

Gumshoe