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View Full Version : Scouting report on Olivo


gosox41
07-05-2003, 08:43 PM
Just pitch him low, outside fastballs and watch him flail away. Keep doing it and he'll keep falling for it.

Bob

konerkopeachy
07-05-2003, 08:45 PM
He did swing at some total stinkers today. Yeesh.

Konerkoholic
07-05-2003, 08:46 PM
The breaking ball is an automatic out with this guy. Pinella knew it and his pitcher executed it. Manuel, for some reason, didn't know it, and didn't tell Olivo to lay off the ioffspeed stuff.

konerkopeachy
07-05-2003, 08:51 PM
Well, Jerry doesn't know much of anything, so this doesn't surprise me....Rays pitching pretty much knew Miggy like the backs of their hands.

Konerkoholic
07-05-2003, 08:53 PM
It just shows that a good manager can indeed win you several games a year. Bad ones can lose you just as many. Guess which kind we have?

JRIG
07-05-2003, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Just pitch him low, outside fastballs and watch him flail away. Keep doing it and he'll keep falling for it.

Bob

This is basically the same scouting report on Crede as well. Maybe this is something our hitting coach should be working on.

bmwal
07-05-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by konerkopeachy
Well, Jerry doesn't know much of anything, so this doesn't surprise me....Rays pitching pretty much knew Miggy like the backs of their hands. The sad part is Jerry thinks he does know the game and so does his bosses.As long as jerry stays in the dugout the fans will stay away

jeremyb1
07-05-2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic
The breaking ball is an automatic out with this guy. Pinella knew it and his pitcher executed it. Manuel, for some reason, didn't know it, and didn't tell Olivo to lay off the ioffspeed stuff.

hahaha. this is laughable. this may be an all time low for manuel bashing on this board and that really says something. how do you know what jerry manuel said to olivo on the bench? do you think you realize olivo doesn't realize he struggles with outside breaking pitches and you do?! he probably realizes this himself. i don't know how you think its so easy as having the manager tell him to lay off and he won't do it. how stupid do you think manuel, olvio, and walker are? you don't think its at all possible that olvio simply struggles to lay off the outside breaking stuff even when he's trying to or simply has bad recognition of the breaking balls and thinks they are fastballs out of the pitcher's hand?! give me a break. this simply reinforces the fact that many people will find any and every way to make any mistake this team makes and any loss this team suffers manuel's fault for the upteenth time.

gosox41
07-05-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
hahaha. this is laughable. this may be an all time low for manuel bashing on this board and that really says something. how do you know what jerry manuel said to olivo on the bench? do you think you realize olivo doesn't realize he struggles with outside breaking pitches and you do?! he probably realizes this himself. i don't know how you think its so easy as having the manager tell him to lay off and he won't do it. how stupid do you think manuel, olvio, and walker are? you don't think its at all possible that olvio simply struggles to lay off the outside breaking stuff even when he's trying to or simply has bad recognition of the breaking balls and thinks they are fastballs out of the pitcher's hand?! give me a break.

While I won't go that far in my criticism of JM, he may want to pinch hit once in awhile for a struggling hitter. At the time he had Magglio on the bench. He also had Konerko for all you Konerko lovers out there. With the bases loaded and no one out it's inexcusable not to get 1 run in. When it's the later innings of a 1 run game with that situation and now you have 2 outs, one should consider other options besides having his .220 hitting catcher in there.

But what do I know, I'm just a fan. I would have been dumb enough to actually put Ordonez in the starting line up. How crazy is that?

Bob

jeremyb1
07-05-2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
While I won't go that far in my criticism of JM, he may want to pinch hit once in awhile for a struggling hitter. At the time he had Magglio on the bench. He also had Konerko for all you Konerko lovers out there. With the bases loaded and no one out it's inexcusable not to get 1 run in. When it's the later innings of a 1 run game with that situation and now you have 2 outs, one should consider other options besides having his .220 hitting catcher in there.

But what do I know, I'm just a fan. I would have been dumb enough to actually put Ordonez in the starting line up. How crazy is that?

it was still pretty early in the game for a pinch hitter but i wouldn't be completely opposed to that. regardless, that argument was not made in this thread until now.

MarkEdward
07-06-2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic
It just shows that a good manager can indeed win you several games a year.


Yeah, that Lou Piniella sure is doing wonders with the Rays! And look at what Art Howe's doing with the Mets. Simply marvelous.

I sure can't wait until Williams fires Manuel. He's the only one keeping us from going 162-0 and winning a World Series title!

Konerkoholic
07-06-2003, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
how do you know what jerry manuel said to olivo on the bench?
A take sign would have come in handy.

dickallen15
07-06-2003, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
hahaha. this is laughable. this may be an all time low for manuel bashing on this board and that really says something. how do you know what jerry manuel said to olivo on the bench? do you think you realize olivo doesn't realize he struggles with outside breaking pitches and you do?! he probably realizes this himself. i don't know how you think its so easy as having the manager tell him to lay off and he won't do it. how stupid do you think manuel, olvio, and walker are? you don't think its at all possible that olvio simply struggles to lay off the outside breaking stuff even when he's trying to or simply has bad recognition of the breaking balls and thinks they are fastballs out of the pitcher's hand?! give me a break. this simply reinforces the fact that many people will find any and every way to make any mistake this team makes and any loss this team suffers manuel's fault for the upteenth time.

Its not JM's fault they lost, they should have been able to score more runs. It is, however, bush league managing where he lets this struggling hitter bat in that situation with Ordonez and Konerko , whom he earlier claimed would be playing a lot this series because he hits real well there, on the bench watching. He shouldn't have told him to lay off the breaking pitch, he should have told him to sit down and watch. JM is a nice man but should be coaching 3rd base for somebody.

jeremyb1
07-06-2003, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic
A take sign would have come in handy.

a 3-1 take sign with two outs is risky business. the pitcher can throw a get me over fastball and then the hitter missed his pitch and is forced to attempt to hit with two strikes. if you expect the pitcher to throw a breaking pitch on 3-1 (which you obviously do in hindsight since you saw him throw it) then obviously the take sign is a good idea but obviously you're expecting a fastball and a pretty good pitch to hit on 3-1.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-06-2003, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
a 3-1 take sign with two outs is risky business. the pitcher can throw a get me over fastball and then the hitter missed his pitch and is forced to attempt to hit with two strikes. if you expect the pitcher to throw a breaking pitch on 3-1 (which you obviously do in hindsight since you saw him throw it) then obviously the take sign is a good idea but obviously you're expecting a fastball and a pretty good pitch to hit on 3-1.

Sorry, jeremy. The only reason anybody ever takes a pitch is to force the pitcher to prove he can do what he is struggling to do: throw a strike. Backe had already fallen behind 2-0 with the bases loaded, and then fell behind AGAIN for 3-1. You don't seriously think he was trying to do that, do you? Olivo SWUNG at two pitches that clearly were balls. If he keeps the bat on his shoulder for either of those pitches, he earns an RBI!

Please try to remember that sometimes our guy doesn't have to succeed. Instead, we only need the other guy to fail. Olivo was out there hacking away like he was standing in a sugar cane field. Somebody is responsible for this kind of boneheaded baseball. It's either Olivo or his manager.

voodoochile
07-06-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Sorry, jeremy. The only reason anybody ever takes a pitch is to force the pitcher to prove he can do what he is struggling to do: throw a strike. Backe had already fallen behind 2-0 with the bases loaded, and then fell behind AGAIN for 3-1. You don't seriously think he was trying to do that, do you? Olivo SWUNG at two pitches that clearly were balls. If he keeps the bat on his shoulder for either of those pitches, he earns an RBI!

Please try to remember that sometimes our guy doesn't have to succeed. Instead, we only need the other guy to fail. Olivo was out there hacking away like he was standing in a sugar cane field. Somebody is responsible for this kind of boneheaded baseball. It's either Olivo or his manager.

Not quite... The one he swung at on 2-0 was a ball also. The only strike he swung at he managed to foul back on the first 3-2 count. It was one of the worst decisions I've seen in a long time. Whoever decided to give Olivo the green light failed miserably at their job. The count could have been 3-0 and they could have afforded to take two.

Olivo is a good young player, even if he is slumping at the moment. Management needs to pull back on the reins a bit at crucial times in the games so he doesn't make mistakes of aggression. Yesterday, he not only cost us a run by swinging at 3 balls after having the 2-0 count, but he cost us another one when he went to third on the bunt.

Yes, you need patience, but you also need a management team that is aware of the players shortcomings and does something about them...

PaleHoseGeorge
07-06-2003, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Not quite... The one he swung at on 2-0 was a ball also.

I stand corrected, voodoo. I was giving Olivo and Manuel too much credit.

:smile:

voodoochile
07-06-2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I stand corrected, voodoo. I was giving Olivo and Manuel too much credit.

:smile:

Don't let it happen again...

:D:

dickallen15
07-06-2003, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Not quite... The one he swung at on 2-0 was a ball also. The only strike he swung at he managed to foul back on the first 3-2 count. It was one of the worst decisions I've seen in a long time. Whoever decided to give Olivo the green light failed miserably at their job. The count could have been 3-0 and they could have afforded to take two.

Olivo is a good young player, even if he is slumping at the moment. Management needs to pull back on the reins a bit at crucial times in the games so he doesn't make mistakes of aggression. Yesterday, he not only cost us a run by swinging at 3 balls after having the 2-0 count, but he cost us another one when he went to third on the bunt.

Yes, you need patience, but you also need a management team that is aware of the players shortcomings and does something about them...

How about a pinch hitter? JM should take the rest of the summer off.

joecrede
07-06-2003, 10:52 AM
Ordonez should've hit for Graffanino with the bases loaded and one out.

TheRockinMT
07-06-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic
It just shows that a good manager can indeed win you several games a year. Bad ones can lose you just as many. Guess which kind we have?


Your right about Olivo and Crede. Hawk on WGN Saturday said the Rays took advantage of Olivo and his inexperience. He was looking for a fastball and went down swinging at an outside curve. I would have pinch hit for him in the 6th, but at least Maggs got one back in the 9th when he hit for Olivo. I have watched Crede in televised games and when they pitch him low and outside his backside sticks out a mile and he looks abslutely lost when he limp swings at the pitch. Hopefully he and Olivo can adjust and start swinging the bat. Olivo and Crede are still in there becasue of their defense not their offense obviously. They are learning to hit at the big league level and it's not pretty sometimes.