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JUGGERNAUT
07-05-2003, 01:28 PM
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/051sd6.htm

After Koch's latest fall, Jerry Manuel sounded like a manager who's seen enough.

While pitching coach Don Cooper goes back to the drawing board with Koch (5-5), Manuel likely will turn to Damaso Marte and Tom Gordon in save situations.

"Marte and Flash (Gordon) have done a good job and have saved some ballgames before," Manuel said. "Until it looks like Billy kind of gets his stuff back, we've got to do what we've got to do."

The problem is Koch's much-hyped 100-mph fastball hasn't been seen all season, which leads Manuel to believe there's a problem beyond what can be detected on the surface.

"I can't recollect a velocity being that big a difference without something going on," Manuel said. "The guy (Koch) we saw in Oakland and Toronto would just throw the ball right by you."


Once again, blame KW.
He led Beane cajole him into this trade.
All Kenny had to do was tie the trade to a physical including a velocity check.
But he wasn't thorough enough again.

So far Kenny's track record is HORRIBLE when it comes to assessing the health status of players he's traded for.

He's not a bad guy or really a bad GM.
Marte gives the SOX reason to hope despite a broken Koch. Without KW there is no Marte.

But he really needs to do a MUCH better job at being thorough with the details when he trades.

Likewise, he needs to do a better job overall at assessing health. He brought Rowand back to soon, Parque had no business being on last yr's team, Wells bad back, Ritchies weak arm, & now Koch's loss of velocity.
Loss of velocity is the clearest sign that something is wrong. Even Manuel knows that!

JRIG
07-05-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/051sd6.htm

After Koch's latest fall, Jerry Manuel sounded like a manager who's seen enough.

While pitching coach Don Cooper goes back to the drawing board with Koch (5-5), Manuel likely will turn to Damaso Marte and Tom Gordon in save situations.

"Marte and Flash (Gordon) have done a good job and have saved some ballgames before," Manuel said. "Until it looks like Billy kind of gets his stuff back, we've got to do what we've got to do."

The problem is Koch's much-hyped 100-mph fastball hasn't been seen all season, which leads Manuel to believe there's a problem beyond what can be detected on the surface.

"I can't recollect a velocity being that big a difference without something going on," Manuel said. "The guy (Koch) we saw in Oakland and Toronto would just throw the ball right by you."


Once again, blame KW.
He led Beane cajole him into this trade.
All Kenny had to do was tie the trade to a physical including a velocity check.
But he wasn't thorough enough again.

So far Kenny's track record is HORRIBLE when it comes to assessing the health status of players he's traded for.

He's not a bad guy or really a bad GM.
Marte gives the SOX reason to hope despite a broken Koch. Without KW there is no Marte.

But he really needs to do a MUCH better job at being thorough with the details when he trades.

Likewise, he needs to do a better job overall at assessing health. He brought Rowand back to soon, Parque had no business being on last yr's team, Wells bad back, Ritchies weak arm, & now Koch's loss of velocity.
Loss of velocity is the clearest sign that something is wrong. Even Manuel knows that!



Wow, who would have thought that throwing 97 innings last year would have an effect on his arm.

That's a ton of innings for a guy that never started at any level in the minors.

JUGGERNAUT
07-05-2003, 02:06 PM
deaf: there were reports out of OAK by both fans & other scouts that Koch was no longer able to throw in the high 90's

dumb: KW should have insisted on speed tests as part of Koch's physical. Even though Beane had cajoled him into this trade, given the infamous Siro trade KW had every right to insist on this as part of the physical.

blind: Every team gets a published report of every pitch tracked by a radar gun. It's as if KW doesn't bother to look at this data or have any one else look at it.

Koch's pitches on Friday: 16-10
3 @ 78, 3 @ 81, 2 @ 85-86, 3 @ 88
1 @ 89, 2 @ 90, 2 @ 91

A far cry from 100 mph or even high 90's.

Marte's: mostly 94-96 with off-speed down to 81. Very effective.


KW, STOP being a DUMB ARSE & start looking at the details to assess health!
:angry:
Parque had no business being on the team last year!
Wells had a bad back when you traded for him!
Berry is not Barry!
Ritchie had a weak arm when you traded for him!
Rowand was brought back to soon!
AND NOW KOCH CAN'T THROW MORE THAN 91 MPH!

Get a freakin' clue! :angry:



GO WHITE SOX!
:lsox :lsox

dickallen15
07-05-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
deaf: there were reports out of OAK by both fans & other scouts that Koch was no longer able to throw in the high 90's

dumb: KW should have insisted on speed tests as part of Koch's physical. Even though Beane had cajoled him into this trade, given the infamous Siro trade KW had every right to insist on this as part of the physical.

blind: Every team gets a published report of every pitch tracked by a radar gun. It's as if KW doesn't bother to look at this data or have any one else look at it.

Koch's pitches on Friday: 16-10
3 @ 78, 3 @ 81, 2 @ 85-86, 3 @ 88
1 @ 89, 2 @ 90, 2 @ 91

A far cry from 100 mph or even high 90's.

Marte's: mostly 94-96 with off-speed down to 81. Very effective.


I think the outing in KC the first series of the season showed there was something wrong with him. Why does it take 3 months and numerous horrid outings, an average closer we'd be in first place, NOW there is something wrong? At least we have other options.

B. Diddy
07-05-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
[B]Wow, who would have thought that throwing 97 innings last year would have an effect on his arm.
B]

Sounds a lot like Kelly Wunsch in 2000, no?

Stick a fork in him, Billy's done.

jeremyb1
07-05-2003, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by B. Diddy
Sounds a lot like Kelly Wunsch in 2000, no?

Stick a fork in him, Billy's done.

an arm injury which would allow koch to return by next season with a high recovery rate would be a blessing at this point. we could get him out of the pen and add ginter while giving glover more regular work.

ma-gaga
07-05-2003, 03:27 PM
This all feels so familiar (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19477)

kevingrt
07-05-2003, 03:36 PM
I was gonna say, haven't we been thinking he's injured the whole time! :?: