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View Full Version : Will KW be fired?


balboner
07-04-2003, 09:27 PM
If the Sox dont make the playoffs this year, it's quite obvious that Jerry Manuel will be fired. However, will Kenny Williams be fired also? He's basically putting his reputation, as bad as it might be, on the line with these recent trades.

pearso66
07-04-2003, 09:33 PM
I may be in the minority here, but I hope that he doesn't get fired. He has pulled some big trades, and in hind sight they havn't been good, but at the time were good trades. The Wells for Sirotka deal was great. I know for one that I loved the thought of having David Wells on the team. So he had a bad year, but what has Sirotka done since? nothing. He got us Olivo, Colon, Marte, and now Alomar and Everett. The only 2 trades I have any beef with were the ones for Todd Ritchie and Billy Koch. But they weren't bad trades. Yeah we gave up a lot for Ritchie, but none of those pitchers are doin much this year, and the only one that would probably still be here is Sean Lowe, Many people were getting on Kip Wells when he was here. I don't think Fogg would be on the Major League roster, or even with the team anymore anyway. And well Billy Koch didn't turn out like expected, it happens. The Clayton deal wasn't that bad, the only bad part was that they kept playing him. But Myette wouldn't be in our rotation, or even the bullpen. He is gutsy, and sometimes, that is what it takes to win.

RKMeibalane
07-04-2003, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by balboner
If the Sox dont make the playoffs this year, it's quite obvious that Jerry Manuel will be fired. However, will Kenny Williams be fired also? He's basically putting his reputation, as bad as it might be, on the line with these recent trades.

I don't think Williams will be fired, at least not right away. Once Manuel is gone, KW becomes the next "fall" guy if anything more goes wrong with this team. This is one of the reasons why Manuel has managed to survive this long. Williams knows that his head will be the next on the chopping block if he fires Manuel. But again, Kenny's future probably depends on how these recent trades work out, because just about every other accquisition he's made has blown up in his face.

RedPinStripes
07-04-2003, 09:36 PM
I doubt it. I think JR is behind this too. Here's a post of mine from another Sox site. Just my opinion.

This IS still a form of rebuilding. Just not as they did in 98 where JR bsically called the fans crazy for thinking we can compete.

Look at all the free agents next year for the Sox. Off the top of my head: Everet, Robby, Sandy, C.Lee, Daubach, Colon, Valentin.

Now dont get me wrong. I love what the Sox did, but this is a cover up for the rebuilding process. The sox are going to get a ton of prospects in next year's draft in compenstation for these guys. This will rebuild the farm with low A ball players. I doubt the Sox will sign half of these guys. So there's a good chance next years team will suck or play .500 ball unless KW does the same thing as this year.

It is a much smarter way of rebuilding though. Instead of giving up, try to go out with a winner. Thsi way they're not pissing off the fans in july. I think all Sox fans can handle a few years of rebuilding if we have a chance to do more then a division title.

If you really think about it, the Sox havent really had a chance to have a good draft position since the late 80's!!!!!!!

Think about it............. The Sox havent really been much worse then .500 since then which puts them in the middle of the draft and they never had a shot at prospects like Mark Prior or other top 10 rated prospects in the country. Instead, they traded players from the 25 man roster away for prospects.

This sure beats watching this team lose BAD for a few years only to wait and get prospects over being one of the worst in the league.

Brian26
07-05-2003, 01:20 AM
Kenny Williams was fired two months ago. HSC told me so. She said her sources were 100% guaranteed, bet the mortgage on it. The person who made the trades with Texas and the Mets last week is actually an imposter clone general manager, composed of the physical DNA of Kenny Williams, but the intellectual genetics of Eddie Einhorn and Walt Disney. The beauty of this marvelous plan, orchestrated by JR himself, is that Kenny's salary is now being saved by the White Sox organization. This, coupled with the release of Josh Paul's salary, gives the franchise the financial flexibility to bring back Ribbie and Roobarb for the stretch run.

Meanwhile, I've been living on lower Wacker for the past month.

TornLabrum
07-05-2003, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Kenny Williams was fired two months ago. HSC told me so. She said her sources were 100% guaranteed, bet the mortgage on it. The person who made the trades with Texas and the Mets last week is actually an imposter clone general manager, composed of the physical DNA of Kenny Williams, but the intellectual genetics of Eddie Einhorn and Walt Disney.

I'm told that you're not too far off in your hypothesis, at least as far as the Alomar trade is concerned.

soxtalker
07-05-2003, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
I doubt it. I think JR is behind this too. Here's a post of mine from another Sox site. Just my opinion.

This IS still a form of rebuilding. Just not as they did in 98 where JR bsically called the fans crazy for thinking we can compete.

Look at all the free agents next year for the Sox. Off the top of my head: Everet, Robby, Sandy, C.Lee, Daubach, Colon, Valentin.

Now dont get me wrong. I love what the Sox did, but this is a cover up for the rebuilding process. The sox are going to get a ton of prospects in next year's draft in compenstation for these guys. This will rebuild the farm with low A ball players. I doubt the Sox will sign half of these guys. So there's a good chance next years team will suck or play .500 ball unless KW does the same thing as this year.

It is a much smarter way of rebuilding though. Instead of giving up, try to go out with a winner. Thsi way they're not pissing off the fans in july. I think all Sox fans can handle a few years of rebuilding if we have a chance to do more then a division title.

If you really think about it, the Sox havent really had a chance to have a good draft position since the late 80's!!!!!!!

Think about it............. The Sox havent really been much worse then .500 since then which puts them in the middle of the draft and they never had a shot at prospects like Mark Prior or other top 10 rated prospects in the country. Instead, they traded players from the 25 man roster away for prospects.

This sure beats watching this team lose BAD for a few years only to wait and get prospects over being one of the worst in the league.

This is a very interesting suggestion, and there may be a lot of truth in it. The one part of this that I can't really see is that Sox fans would be able to handle a few years of rebuilding. While many fans talk about wanting to win now, I doubt that there will be much in the way of lingering good feelings next year if we are mired in last place.

TornLabrum
07-05-2003, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
This is a very interesting suggestion, and there may be a lot of truth in it. The one part of this that I can't really see is that Sox fans would be able to handle a few years of rebuilding. While many fans talk about wanting to win now, I doubt that there will be much in the way of lingering good feelings next year if we are mired in last place.

Um...we've been rebuilding since 1997. We rebuilt from 1985-1989. All we do is rebuild, go three and out in our one playoff appearance, and rebuild again.

gosox41
07-05-2003, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Kenny Williams was fired two months ago. HSC told me so. She said her sources were 100% guaranteed, bet the mortgage on it. The person who made the trades with Texas and the Mets last week is actually an imposter clone general manager, composed of the physical DNA of Kenny Williams, but the intellectual genetics of Eddie Einhorn and Walt Disney. The beauty of this marvelous plan, orchestrated by JR himself, is that Kenny's salary is now being saved by the White Sox organization. This, coupled with the release of Josh Paul's salary, gives the franchise the financial flexibility to bring back Ribbie and Roobarb for the stretch run.

Meanwhile, I've been living on lower Wacker for the past month.

LMAO

gosox41
07-05-2003, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I'm told that you're not too far off in your hypothesis, at least as far as the Alomar trade is concerned.

So who is making the trades then? And how come KW is out there taking credit for Alomar?

Bob

idseer
07-05-2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by balboner
If the Sox dont make the playoffs this year, it's quite obvious that Jerry Manuel will be fired.

to me it's quite obvious that manuel should have been fired a couple years ago!

i no longer think the obviousness of jm's 'abilities' are obvious to jr at ALL!

TornLabrum
07-05-2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
So who is making the trades then? And how come KW is out there taking credit for Alomar?

Bob

The rumor is that that Eddie Einhorn (of all people!) was involved in making the Alomar deal.

hose
07-05-2003, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
The rumor is that that Eddie Einhorn (of all people!) was involved in making the Alomar deal.


Last time Einhorn got involved with a trade he tossed Doug Drabek in.

Einhorn you idiot

duke of dorwood
07-05-2003, 12:28 PM
Quality prospects or not, no organization can endure all these 3 for 1 trades, and then the one not staying. Its like losing 4 players every transaction. He should be gone. But he wont be.

voodoochile
07-05-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Quality prospects or not, no organization can endure all these 3 for 1 trades, and then the one not staying. Its like losing 4 players every transaction. He should be gone. But he wont be.

You are talking about consequences that won't affect the team for several years though. By then they could be offset in several ways.

1)Drafting players who have more talent and will reach the big leagues faster.

2)FA signings.

3)More trades

4)developing the better prospects in your system thus making the parts you traded obsolete

5)Hanging on to the current group of players you traded for longer (re-signing them)

So again, there is no guarantee that the players they have/will traded for Alomar and Everett will ever affect the big league squad. It's impossible for ANYONE to know. Trade more minor leaguers for more big leaguers and keep doing it until the Sox are WS champions and then worry about tomorrow, tomorrow...

Lip Man 1
07-05-2003, 12:53 PM
Kenny Williams will NOT be fired for the obvious reason that it would reflect badly on Uncle Jerry. it would be an admission of guilt, that he chose the worng guy as GM.

Uncle Jerry's ego does not permit such admissions.

Now Williams might resign but he difinately WON'T get fired.

Lip

soxtalker
07-05-2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You are talking about consequences that won't affect the team for several years though. By then they could be offset in several ways.

1)Drafting players who have more talent and will reach the big leagues faster.

2)FA signings.

3)More trades

4)developing the better prospects in your system thus making the parts you traded obsolete

5)Hanging on to the current group of players you traded for longer (re-signing them)

So again, there is no guarantee that the players they have/will traded for Alomar and Everett will ever affect the big league squad. It's impossible for ANYONE to know. Trade more minor leaguers for more big leaguers and keep doing it until the Sox are WS champions and then worry about tomorrow, tomorrow...

There is also no guarantee that trading will result in a WS championship. Any route -- aggressive trading, building a quality minor league organization over 3-4 years, or a blend of the two -- can work, but nothing is easy or obvious. It takes smarts and some luck.

I personally think that building a quality minor league organization is the route with the higher probability of success, but I get the impression that I'm in the minority among fans. I think that the Sox started to go that route, but they switched gears when (a) the 2000 season was a greater success than anticipated and (b) KW came in with a much more aggressive win-it-now style. Schueler's policy of drafting primarily pitching prospects also made trading for position players eventually a requirement.

I wonder if it might help if one or two of our minor league affiliates were located in the Chicago area, so we could see the players as they work their way through the system.

gosox41
07-05-2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
There is also no guarantee that trading will result in a WS championship. Any route -- aggressive trading, building a quality minor league organization over 3-4 years, or a blend of the two -- can work, but nothing is easy or obvious. It takes smarts and some luck.

I personally think that building a quality minor league organization is the route with the higher probability of success, but I get the impression that I'm in the minority among fans. I think that the Sox started to go that route, but they switched gears when (a) the 2000 season was a greater success than anticipated and (b) KW came in with a much more aggressive win-it-now style. Schueler's policy of drafting primarily pitching prospects also made trading for position players eventually a requirement.

I wonder if it might help if one or two of our minor league affiliates were located in the Chicago area, so we could see the players as they work their way through the system.

I have no problem with KW being aggressive as a young team on a limited budget has about a six year window of opportunity to win. The problem is that there is a fine line between aggressive and stupid adn KW has crossed it more often then not.

Bob