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View Full Version : Get Koch's ***damn ass off this team!


Viva Magglio
07-04-2003, 07:03 PM
I have had it with his horse**** pitching!!! :angry:

CHISOXFAN13
07-04-2003, 07:04 PM
We could have Bonds, Pujols and AROD in the lineup and would still lose games because Manuel continues to trot this bum out there day in and day out. It ain't working. Go with Gordon.

Brian26
07-04-2003, 07:05 PM
The most frustrating part is that he blew Colon's 6+-inning masterpiece and Daubach even gave him an insurance run in the 9th. Mercy.

balboner
07-04-2003, 07:06 PM
Not only do the fans not have any confidence in Koch, but I guarantee that none of the players on the team do also. He has an average fastball now with mediocre junk. Way to kill the momentum you piece of crap!

OEO Magglio
07-04-2003, 07:10 PM
It ain't working. Go with Gordon.
I second that.

Bisco Stu
07-04-2003, 07:15 PM
I say Koch should also be bestowed with the moniker of "The Big Hurt."

For entirely different reasons, of course.

Viva Magglio
07-04-2003, 07:15 PM
You know what Koch could have sparked?

This!

:chickenlittle

RKMeibalane
07-04-2003, 07:19 PM
If Manuel has any common sense, he won't use Koch for a long time, at the very least. Gordon should be the closer until a perminent replacement can be found.

MikeKreevich
07-04-2003, 07:22 PM
I got a good look at Koch's stomach during the ninth inning and I swear, it looks big, like he's a big beer drinker or he's not in very good shape.

Viva Magglio
07-04-2003, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Guzman's Goat
I got a good look at Koch's stomach during the ninth inning and I swear, it looks big, like he's a big beer drinker or he's not in very good shape.

All the more reason to get his ass off this team.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-04-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Guzman's Goat
I got a good look at Koch's stomach during the ninth inning and I swear, it looks big, like he's a big beer drinker or he's not in very good shape.

Hmmm... this is an interesting theory. Koch is pitching lousy because he drinks too much beer, has put on weight, and is now out of shape!

I KNEW FALSTAFF WAS THE CULPRIT!!!! :smile:

:beer

OEO Magglio
07-04-2003, 07:27 PM
I got a good look at Koch's stomach during the ninth inning and I swear, it looks big, like he's a big beer drinker or he's not in very good shape.
Yeah I've noticed that also, to me he looks bigger then he did on oakland last year.

Bisco Stu
07-04-2003, 07:28 PM
Something's up from last year, because living out here I saw him a lot in 02 and he was dominant at times. This year he's a total joke.

Viva Magglio
07-04-2003, 07:49 PM
Callers to both the Score and ESPN Radio 1000 are calling for Koch's ouster.

As far as I'm concerned that Koch ruined my whole night!!!!!!!!!

This is proof that KW was Billy Beane's byoch when this deal was made.

oheeoh...magglio
07-04-2003, 08:01 PM
god im so mad koch blew that game i FINALLY became a member on here lol... :angry:

pudge
07-04-2003, 08:02 PM
I could not agree more. I'd like to see someone try to defend Koch now. He has ALWAYS sucked as a closer. Closers should not have ERA's near 4.00. That was basically his career ERA before he even got here. He SUCKS. Plain and simple. Please, for the love of Roberto Alomar, give someone else the closer role. This loss just killed our momentum and ruined my friggin 4th. I don't even want to watch any fireworks now.

oheeoh...magglio
07-04-2003, 08:04 PM
does anybody else here wish we would have thrown in koch and had texas throw in urbina in that trade a few days ago?

Lip Man 1
07-04-2003, 08:05 PM
Now you know why the talk about Troy Percival.

Lip

oldcomiskey
07-04-2003, 08:12 PM
how many of you idiots wanted a traditional closer--well you got one

pudge
07-04-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by oheeoh...magglio
does anybody else here wish we would have thrown in koch and had texas throw in urbina in that trade a few days ago?

I thought about this before the game today. I almost wish we traded for Urbina instead of Everett. Frankly, I don't think Everett is going to add that much. He's a mediocre hitter who swings at bad pitches (did you see him swinging at balls in the dirt today?). But Urbina could at least do a better job than friggin' Koch.

oheeoh...magglio
07-04-2003, 08:14 PM
i don't care if the closer is traditional or not....as long as he gets out 3 guys in the 9th and holds leads on a consistent basis i'll be happy, and koch obviously can't do that

OEO Magglio
07-04-2003, 08:47 PM
Now you know why the talk about Troy Percival.
Is there really serious talks about maybe getting Percival, I've seen rumors but I didn't know if there is actually any truth to them, I would love to see Percival on the sox, he's a dependable closer.

voodoochile
07-04-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
how many of you idiots wanted a traditional closer--well you got one

Don't really care, just so long as they are effective. I expected Koch to be effective. He isn't. The rest is just gravy...

ShoelessFred
07-04-2003, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
how many of you idiots wanted a traditional closer--well you got one

billy koch is by no means a "traditional" closer. "traditional" closers ACTUALLY get people out. not give up runs and lose games.

thezeker
07-04-2003, 09:04 PM
I might be in the minority but I think we've got a darn good closer on this team if used properly.

Damaso Marte. He's got good stuff and seems equally effective against lefties and righties. Use him strictly as a closer and he will excell. He will blow a game now and then but he has better stuff and better control than Gordon. The way Manuel has used him this year he has no real role. He did a good job as closer at the end of last year but everyone seems to have forgotten that. Sometimes the answer is right on front of you but you cannot see it!

OEO Magglio
07-04-2003, 09:09 PM
I might be in the minority but I think we've got a darn good closer on this team if used properly. Damaso Marte
I don't think your really in a minority I think most of the people on this board feel the same way.

Corkinator
07-04-2003, 09:49 PM
Agreed. Marte should get the role. There is plenty of time before the trade deadline to see if he can handle it. Oh for the old days of Sox traditional closers...Hoyt Wilhelm, Eddie Fisher.

JRIG
07-04-2003, 09:50 PM
I certainly agree. Marte gets right handers out just as well as LHB. Trying to aquire a "closer" at this point will cost us dearly in terms of prospects.

Marte can do it.

Lip Man 1
07-04-2003, 09:52 PM
or Bobby Locker, Terry Forster, "Goose" Gossage, Dennis Lamp, "Bullett" Bob James and Bobby Thigpen.

Lip

LongLiveFisk
07-04-2003, 10:13 PM
Who hit that 3-run homer?! Carl Crawford?

My God, I think CINDY Crawford could hit rocket shots off this loser.

Send his a** packing. :angry:

joecrede
07-04-2003, 10:25 PM
I wonder if there is any correlation between Sosa's lost homers and Koch's lost velocity.

TheGipper
07-04-2003, 10:35 PM
Koch has got to go, I didn't like giving up Foulke for him in the first place. Atleast Keith had two or three pitches. Maybe we could ship Koch to the Mets and get Ring back.

They need to get rid of Koch before he can do more damage and get rid of his salary. We still might get something for him, even if it is a six pack of beer. He just killed this team tonight. Marte owned them while he was out there. I really hoped that they were going to leave him out there for the ninth.

Koch makes me nervous the minute his ass leaves the bullpen and a closer shouldn't do that.

southsidegirl
07-04-2003, 10:55 PM
The fireworks tonight seemed a lot like Billy Goat's ERA, flying up into the night and exploding in mid air. All jokes aside, I think that somethings going on with him that we don't know about. Don't get me wrong, I can't STAND his performance this year, but he definatly has the capability to pitch better and hopefully he will soon. But until then, I say, get his sorry ass off the mound and use Flash!

B. Diddy
07-04-2003, 10:59 PM
I'd like to see KW offer Anaheim Koch, Konerko, and Wright for Percival. If they say no, offer to eat the rest of Konerko's salary for this season.

If we can't dump this white trash choke, give the closer role to Gordon.

Jjav829
07-04-2003, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
how many of you idiots wanted a traditional closer--well you got one

Awww, what a nice way to endear yourself to your fellow posters at WSI...by calling us idiots. I can feel the love...

QueerGirrl
07-04-2003, 11:34 PM
We were winning!!!!! *** is wrong with Koch?!? I thought this guy was suppose to be good! We can't afford to lose games like this. We should've been able to sweep the Rays, but now the best we can get is 2 out of 3. We need a closer immedately! :angry:

SluggersAway
07-05-2003, 01:14 AM
The world runs off idiots, retards, and morons, so there has got to be a few among us.

Onto other things, I want to ring the damn good for nothing, beer bloated, barf hurling joke, Billy Koch's neck. I hope he improves or we get something else going in the bullpen. Et tu, Brute?

Konerkoholic
07-05-2003, 01:19 AM
A damn disheartening loss, but I think this team will bounce back. I wouldn't be saying that a month ago. However, nothing is worse than seeing a team pitch its ass off for 8 innings and then have one guy come in and destroy all the good momentum. Koch clearly doesn't have any confidence up there. He threw two straight breaking balls in the dirt to Al Martin and got two swinging strikes. Why not go back to the same pitch? Instead, Koch tried to spot something on the corner and brought the winning run to the plate. You can't do that. If another save opportunity should arise soon, Gordon or Marte should be in there because they look fearless up there.

TornLabrum
07-05-2003, 06:26 AM
I decided to go back and look at my "Fallen Arches" column from right after the Koch-for-Foulke trade. Looks like the writer from Oakland was pretty accurate.

So what did the Sox get in Koch? It depends on who you listen to. Supporters of the deal are quick to point out Koch’s 44 saves in 2002. On the other hand, where Foulke had a decent fast ball and an amazing change-up (at least when he could control it), Koch is a “one trick pony, “ at least according to Oakland sports writer Monte Poole, who is relieved that the A’s are getting rid of Koch.

Poole is quick to point out that Koch had a great season with Oakland except for a couple of important games against Anaheim on September 17 and against Minnesota in game 5 of the AL Division Series. What Poole doesn’t like is the fact that Koch only has one weapon.

“He had the blazing fastball,” writes Poole, “often getting it up around 100 mph. After that, he had another blazing fastball. And if you hit that, he'd try to slip a blazing fastball past you.”

Then there was his other problem: lack of control. Poole describes him as “walking peril. An adventure on every pitch.” To put it another way, “While relief pitching is by nature a high-wire act, Koch too often took it to another level. He frequently pitched from behind in the count, and he often walked the leadoff batter, two sins of relief pitching.”

And according to Poole, that’s exactly why Billy Beane decided to trade him. ” Koch's lack of control irritated fans, teammates, manager Art Howe, general manager Billy Beane and owner Steve Schott.” This could explain why Koch was traded twice in less than 365 days. People don’t like their closers to perform a high wire act every outing.

Couple that with Kenny Williams main selling point: “He’s in our control for the next three years.” This could be a good thing if Koch matures as a pitcher during that time. On the other hand, since this is his arbitration year, most experts are expecting him to make something like $4 million a year. That dollar amount could make this deal another disaster waiting to happen. If Koch doesn’t live up to Sox management’s expectations for him, it could be yet another incentive for fans to stay away from the ballpark. When a closer can’t close, teams tend to lose big-time.

Looks like all of the worst case scenarios have come true.

gosox41
07-05-2003, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by QueerGirrl
We were winning!!!!! *** is wrong with Koch?!? I thought this guy was suppose to be good! We can't afford to lose games like this. We should've been able to sweep the Rays, but now the best we can get is 2 out of 3. We need a closer immedately! :angry:

Koch was highly ovaerrated last season, now he's coming down to earth big time.

Bob

WillieHarris12
07-05-2003, 09:32 AM
Marte could've done better in his 3rd inning out there! Koch is horrible!!!

ma-gaga
07-05-2003, 10:59 AM
Is there any doubt that JM will incorrectly use his relievers the rest of the year?

I swear, that if you put these guys in the right situation 85-90% of the time they'll do their job. I wouldn't worry as much about Koch's tendancies to put guys on base, as JM's and KW's tendancies to overreact and start screwing around with Koch's usage pattern.

:KW
"Let's bench Billy for 2 weeks. Then slowly put him in, in non-save and blowout situations and slowly work his way back into the bullpen. That'll get his head on straight. It worked for Keith Foulke, look how much 'value' I received for him, I got 3 years of Billy Koch!!! Yeah, I got this GM stuff down pat. Man, that Billy Beane is a rube!"

gosox41
07-05-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
Is there any doubt that JM will incorrectly use his relievers the rest of the year?

I swear, that if you put these guys in the right situation 85-90% of the time they'll do their job. I wouldn't worry as much about Koch's tendancies to put guys on base, as JM's and KW's tendancies to overreact and start screwing around with Koch's usage pattern.

:KW
"Let's bench Billy for 2 weeks. Then slowly put him in, in non-save and blowout situations and slowly work his way back into the bullpen. That'll get his head on straight. It worked for Keith Foulke, look how much 'value' I received for him, I got 3 years of Billy Koch!!! Yeah, I got this GM stuff down pat. Man, that Billy Beane is a rube!"

I worry amore about Koch's tendencies of putting guys on base. One way to limit hte number of runs given up is to have as few men as possible on base.

As for putting them in the right situation, are you saying Koch shouldn't be the closer? If so, I agree. If not, then wasn't he used in the right position yesterday. 11/15 in terms of saves is hardly a 85-90% success rate.

Bob

ma-gaga
07-05-2003, 11:49 AM
Bob,

I don't think Billy Koch is very good. That being said, he can still close if he is the best you have. Koch is best when used a lot. Get him out there 2-3 times a week, put him in a closer role, put him in at the 8th inning, and let him go 2 innings. Rotate him with Marte and Gordon, put him in in tie games, whatever. Get him work and stop screwing with his mechanics.

I think if JM sits him for 2 weeks, it'll kill his value/effectiveness. If JM puts him in, then yanks him after ONE hit, he'll kill Billy's confidence. Koch has a ton of bravado, fire and a rubber arm. Use it.

In answer to your question, yes, I'd continue to throw him out there in the closers role and scarily enough, expand it. If I was JM/KW, I'd study the way Oakland used him last year, and mimic it.

ssang
07-05-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
Bob,

I don't think Billy Koch is very good. That being said, he can still close if he is the best you have. Koch is best when used a lot. Get him out there 2-3 times a week, put him in a closer role, put him in at the 8th inning, and let him go 2 innings. Rotate him with Marte and Gordon, put him in in tie games, whatever. Get him work and stop screwing with his mechanics.

I think if JM sits him for 2 weeks, it'll kill his value/effectiveness. If JM puts him in, then yanks him after ONE hit, he'll kill Billy's confidence. Koch has a ton of bravado, fire and a rubber arm. Use it.

In answer to your question, yes, I'd continue to throw him out there in the closers role and scarily enough, expand it. If I was JM/KW, I'd study the way Oakland used him last year, and mimic it.


No way are you serious!?!?! You think we should expand his role. Also, the Sox can't mimic his role with the A's because his fastball is at 90 mph compared to 100 mph last season. The bottom line is that at this moment Billy Koch is AWFUL in every way possible. He does NOT have major league stuff! Put Marte in the closer role and let's move on.

ma-gaga
07-05-2003, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by ssang
his fastball is at 90 mph compared to 100 mph last season.

Fine. Here's my option #2: Cut him loose now and wave the money goodbye.

Gee, I wonder which option Reinsy will advocate. Maybe you can get someone to trade for him. Why do you think he's only throwing 90 mph?

I heard it's because the W.Sox have fixed Koch's mechanics. Ha! Coming into this year, he was a flamethrower that consistantly got into trouble but had the velocity to get out of it. Someone decided to "fix" him, and sure enough they lowered his velocity.

Koch has his uses. You either have to use him, or cut him loose. Right now if you're going to keep him, you have to use him and let him get back to his 100 mph mechanics. If you're going to pay him, you might as well let him play. He sucks, I agree, but he doesn't have any value on the bench.

vegyrex
07-05-2003, 04:11 PM
I hope to gawd Koch hasn't put a hex on us. Just when I was starting to feel good about this season. :angry:

konerkopeachy
07-05-2003, 08:43 PM
I like the idea of cutting Billy Crotch loose. So we lost (whatever the hell his salary was). We can't afford to lose any more games because this assmaster is underperforming.