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Lip Man 1
07-03-2003, 09:31 PM
Folks:

Take this for what it's worth.

I just got information from an acquaintance who covered the Orioles and now works for one of the national radio/ print sports networks.

He told me he has confirmation that the Sox and Orioles have had ongoing talks about a Sidney Ponson / Paul Konerko trade.

The talks are continuing.

I've sent this info to some of my Chicago media contacts in the hope that they can cross check it from the Chicago end.

Any thoughts?

Lip

Bucktown
07-03-2003, 09:32 PM
On Tuesday this would have been a dream come true.

Viva Magglio
07-03-2003, 09:33 PM
If Paulie goes, he left us with great memory.

Daver
07-03-2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1


He told me he has confirmation that the Sox and Orioles have had ongoing talks about a Sidney Ponson / Paul Konerko trade.



It would serve as further proof that Peter Angelos is perhaps the stupidest owner in all of Major League Baseball.

MetalliSox
07-03-2003, 09:38 PM
One letter comes to mind when I hear Ponson's name..

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

He's no difference maker IMO.

A.T. Money
07-03-2003, 09:39 PM
Isn't Ponson their ace in Baltimore? What is Ponson's contract status?

doublem23
07-03-2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by KonerkosHip
One letter comes to mind when I hear Ponson's name..

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

He's no difference maker IMO.

To get a pitcher with a 10-5 record and an ERA under 4 for Konerko would be the steal of the century.

RKMeibalane
07-03-2003, 09:41 PM
The Sox don't need anymore pitching, except perhaps to shore up their bullpen. Trading for Ponson would allow them to move Wright into the bullpen, but I don't think he would be anymore effective pitching in relief.

MarkEdward
07-03-2003, 09:43 PM
I don't really like Ponson (low K/9, injury threat), but if we can dump Konerko, I'll be more than happy to take him on.

Daver
07-03-2003, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
Isn't Ponson their ace in Baltimore? What is Ponson's contract status?

He is a FA at the end of this season.

doublem23
07-03-2003, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by daver
He is a FA at the end of this season.

Well then he fits right in! :)

A.T. Money
07-03-2003, 09:48 PM
This FA at the end of the season thing is freaking me out. If we don't win it this season, then we're going to lose all these guys and we'll have no one lol.

doublem23
07-03-2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
This FA at the end of the season thing is freaking me out. If we don't win it this season, then we're going to lose all these guys and we'll have no one lol.

Harwood Heights? Whoa, that's like... 30 seconds from me (Austin & Montrose or thereabouts).

HawkDJ
07-03-2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
This FA at the end of the season thing is freaking me out. If we don't win it this season, then we're going to lose all these guys and we'll have no one lol.

I'll gladly take that over sitting around and hoping what we have is good enough.

joecrede
07-03-2003, 09:53 PM
If they can deal Konerko for Ponson with Angelos picking up all of Konerko's remaining contract, wow.

doublem23
07-03-2003, 09:53 PM
Hey, you got to go for it when you can. I'd much rather they take a chance and trading for some talent instead of sticking with crap in hopes they'll develop someday. That team they had before really wasn't that spectacular, anyway. May as well try.

Daver
07-03-2003, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
This FA at the end of the season thing is freaking me out. If we don't win it this season, then we're going to lose all these guys and we'll have no one lol.

Losing FA's means gaining draft picks as compensation,a game Billy Beane has played for a long time.

kermittheefrog
07-03-2003, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I don't really like Ponson (low K/9, injury threat), but if we can dump Konerko, I'll be more than happy to take him on.

Are you talking about the same Ponson everyone else is? His K/9 is 12th among AL starters (Leaders (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching?ageMax=99&hand=a&league=al&sort=strikeoutsPerNineInnings&seasonType=2&qual=true&type=pitch3&split=0&pos=all&season=2003&ageMin=0)). He's also just outside the top 30 in Support-Neutral wins.

I know at the begining of the season he was an injury risk but I'm starting to believe he's completely healthy. His K-rate is up and he hasn't had any arm issues. He's an interesting case in that he tore his labrum a few years ago but underwent non-surgical treatment. Now he appears A-OK unlike our friend Jon Rauch who went under the knife and seems like he'll never be the same.

B. Diddy
07-03-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
The Sox don't need anymore pitching, except perhaps to shore up their bullpen. Trading for Ponson would allow them to move Wright into the bullpen, but I don't think he would be anymore effective pitching in relief.

EVERYBODY needs more pitching.

We have two stud starters and Loaiza who may or may not continue to tear it up at his current pace. Are you confident that he will? History suggests that he probably won't.

Ponson would help us get to the playoffs and succeed when we get there more than PK would.

I like Paulie, but I'd like a WS title more.

A.T. Money
07-03-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Harwood Heights? Whoa, that's like... 30 seconds from me (Austin & Montrose or thereabouts).

I'm like Oak Park and Montrose.

gosox3072
07-03-2003, 11:26 PM
Why do you say we will have no one left? Other than konerko if this trade goes through what have we lost. At the start of next year we will be the same team minus colon and valentin

TommyJohn
07-03-2003, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Folks:

Take this for what it's worth.

I just got information from an acquaintance who covered the Orioles and now works for one of the national radio/ print sports networks.

He told me he has confirmation that the Sox and Orioles have had ongoing talks about a Sidney Ponson / Paul Konerko trade.

The talks are continuing.

I've sent this info to some of my Chicago media contacts in the hope that they can cross check it from the Chicago end.

Any thoughts?

Lip

I wonder if this is the trade that the Hawkaroozer said would
blow our socks off. If it is, then my socks are in place. YAWN.

TheGipper
07-03-2003, 11:39 PM
I don't know about Ponson. Granted, Pauly is having a really bad year, but I like him more than Daubach. Pauly will get it going in the second half and when he does he can put up some great numbers. I think we could regret this trade if it happens and really hope the Whitesox don't give up on PK.

Frank isn't getting any younger and Daubach just isn't that great. His numbers aren't much better than PK's and once Paul get his confidence back he can really help carry this team. I like PK's defense better than Daubach and hope the Chisox hold on to him or else we could be in some trouble if he's gone and something happens to Frank.

Jerry_Manuel
07-04-2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by TommyJohn
I wonder if this is the trade that the Hawkaroozer said would
blow our socks off. If it is, then my socks are in place. YAWN.

I don't think it is. I think it will be bigger, but what do I know?

MarkEdward
07-04-2003, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Are you talking about the same Ponson everyone else is? His K/9 is 12th among AL starters (Leaders (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching?ageMax=99&hand=a&league=al&sort=strikeoutsPerNineInnings&seasonType=2&qual=true&type=pitch3&split=0&pos=all&season=2003&ageMin=0)). He's also just outside the top 30 in Support-Neutral wins.

Whoops. Well, that's what I get for not looking up stats.

Anyway, I'm still not impressed with his career numbers. 5.6 K/9, 3.1 BB/9, and 1.3 HR/9. Nothing spectacular, certainly not ace material.

I know at the begining of the season he was an injury risk but I'm starting to believe he's completely healthy. His K-rate is up and he hasn't had any arm issues. He's an interesting case in that he tore his labrum a few years ago but underwent non-surgical treatment. Now he appears A-OK unlike our friend Jon Rauch who went under the knife and seems like he'll never be the same.

Well, by the time he turns 27, he will have pitched 1000 innings. Take that for what you will.

I just don't want to give up grade A or B prospects for Ponson. If we can unload Konerko on the O's, then I'd definitely like Ponson.

gosox41
07-04-2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by daver
Losing FA's means gaining draft picks as compensation,a game Billy Beane has played for a long time.

Assuming of course that the Sox offer all the free agents arbitration and none of these guys accept it and sign elsewhere. For example, are a lot of teams going to give up a first round pick for a .260 hitting Alomar? Or is it more likely that if offered arbitration Alomar would take the max. 20% cut and we'd be stuck with an aging veteran.

Just something to think about. JR won't offer all these guys arbitration because he knows some may accept it.

Bob

gosox41
07-04-2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by TommyJohn
I wonder if this is the trade that the Hawkaroozer said would
blow our socks off. If it is, then my socks are in place. YAWN.

It's definitely not a "F***en A" trade.

Bob

spanishwhite
07-04-2003, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by B. Diddy
EVERYBODY needs more pitching.

We have two stud starters and Loaiza who may or may not continue to tear it up at his current pace. Are you confident that he will? History suggests that he probably won't.

Ponson would help us get to the playoffs and succeed when we get there more than PK would.

I like Paulie, but I'd like a WS title more.

What does ELO have to do to get your confidence. Cut him some slack.

I do agree that you can never have enough pitching. Ponson would look good in Black.

TRL
07-04-2003, 01:18 AM
I don't like the idea of trading guys already on our ML roster to get someone for a playoff run. Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make. I'd hate to give up someone who means a lot to the team right now to get someone who will hopefully mean a lot to the team. Give them prospects if you have to. After all prospects will always be prospects until they produce.

ilsox7
07-04-2003, 01:59 AM
O's Reject Sox Offer (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=insidedishosrejectdealfo&prov=tsn&type=lgns)

From Yahoo! Sports:The Orioles rejected the White Sox's recent offer of first baseman/DH Paul Konerko for potential free-agent righthander Sidney Ponson, and the talks between the teams are currently dormant. Konerko, 27, isn't a great fit for the Orioles, who already have too many first-base/DH types.

Maybe KW is looking at throwing on more prospects...who knows.

grebeck18
07-04-2003, 04:00 AM
I would never take this trade. Paul Konerko for a mediocre pitcher? You have to be kidding me. Konerko gets traded you might as well trade the rest of the team away.

Nick@Nite
07-04-2003, 09:37 AM
I dunno if this was already posted... but just in case it hasn't...

------------------------------------------

Inside Dish: O's reject deal for Ponson

July 3, 2003

The Orioles rejected the White Sox's recent offer of first baseman/DH Paul Konerko for potential free-agent righthander Sidney Ponson, and the talks between the teams are currently dormant. Konerko, 27, isn't a great fit for the Orioles, who already have too many first-base/DH types. He is also earning $6.25 million this season, $8 million in 2004 and $8.75 million in 2005 -- and would receive an extra $500,000 in each of the final two years if he is traded. That's a steep price for a player who has struggled all season, and the Orioles would almost want the White Sox to attach a prospect to any deal. Scouts from both the Cardinals and Astros attended Ponson's most recent start in Baltimore. Both teams face budgetary restrictions and would likely want the Orioles to assume the remainder of Ponson's $4.25 million salary in exchange for higher-caliber prospects. ...

Senior writer Ken Rosenthal covers baseball for Sporting News.

WillieHarris12
07-04-2003, 10:37 AM
I like how the Orioles think Ponson is a great pitcher.

Jurr
07-04-2003, 10:42 AM
Well, let 'em keep thinking that. We don't particularly need him. Even with Dan Wright in the rotation, we have a pitching staff that is gold 4 of 5 starts. They haven't been stringing bad starts together for a long time. I think we can win with Dan Wright, especially if he holds true to form and turns it up during the second half. However, I don't think we can get by in clutch games with the state of our bullpen. We need an arm there badly. Why not bring up Josh Stewart and let him do some pen work? He's a lefty, has a slower fastball and throws junk breaking balls that can get over. That's a great change of pace after a diet of Colon, Garland, Loaiza, IMO. I do think having a healthy Kelly Wunsch returning will help out immensely, as well. But, we need one arm in the 'pen.

guillen4life13
07-04-2003, 10:43 AM
Thank God it didn't happen!


Look. That home run is definitely what Paul needed to break out. He's gonna be in the lineup tonight, and it would surprise me if he DIDN'T get 2 or more hits, and he DIDN't come up with a RBI. Man, he's about to catch fire, and when Paul catches fire, He's gonna be hitting just as well as Thomas has been doing of late.

Ponson has a career 4.65 ERA, and his ERA this year is barely below 4. We don't need that (or Konerko is definitely not the type of player we should give up for that).

I would possibly say that a Jimenez for Kip Wells deal could be a possibility, considering Kip has greatly improved, is older/more mature, and knows the organization. The Pirates have Jack Wilson as their SS, and Abraham Nunez is their main 2B. Jimenez seems like he'd be better than either of them. It fills our need, and fills one of theirs. :)?

dickallen15
07-04-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Jurr
Well, let 'em keep thinking that. We don't particularly need him. Even with Dan Wright in the rotation, we have a pitching staff that is gold 4 of 5 starts. They haven't been stringing bad starts together for a long time. I think we can win with Dan Wright, especially if he holds true to form and turns it up during the second half. However, I don't think we can get by in clutch games with the state of our bullpen. We need an arm there badly. Why not bring up Josh Stewart and let him do some pen work? He's a lefty, has a slower fastball and throws junk breaking balls that can get over. That's a great change of pace after a diet of Colon, Garland, Loaiza, IMO. I do think having a healthy Kelly Wunsch returning will help out immensely, as well. But, we need one arm in the 'pen.

Stewart just got off the dl 2 days ago. He was still injured from when he took the liner of the chest.

guillen4life13
07-04-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Jurr
Well, let 'em keep thinking that. We don't particularly need him. Even with Dan Wright in the rotation, we have a pitching staff that is gold 4 of 5 starts. They haven't been stringing bad starts together for a long time. I think we can win with Dan Wright, especially if he holds true to form and turns it up during the second half. However, I don't think we can get by in clutch games with the state of our bullpen. We need an arm there badly. Why not bring up Josh Stewart and let him do some pen work? He's a lefty, has a slower fastball and throws junk breaking balls that can get over. That's a great change of pace after a diet of Colon, Garland, Loaiza, IMO. I do think having a healthy Kelly Wunsch returning will help out immensely, as well. But, we need one arm in the 'pen.

I think that the best choice for having an arm in the pen, could very possibly be Dan Wright. I like the idea of him doing setup duties, and eventually becoming the closer once Koch leaves.

I really think Wright could be the next Eric Gagne. He would probably add a few miles to his fastball (which is already in the 95-96 range), putting it up to 98-100. That's a closer caliber fastball. And on top of that, his other pitches would be harder to hit because of the fastball. I know some of you might think I'm a little off when I say this, but this guy's stuff is amazing, and I think he'd best fit into a relief role, when he does one-two innings per appearance.

Any thoughts?

dougs78
07-04-2003, 10:50 AM
I for one would not be interested in a PK for Ponson deal. I do not believe PK is "finished" as so many have speculated. I think PK will bounce back this year and next. I think he is overpaid relative to his replacement level and his position, but that being said I'm glad hes on our team. There is such a thing as a fan favorite, and PK is sure one of them. I'm not saying that I'd rather be sentimental than successful, but Sir Sidney is not the key to success.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Ponson, but lets hold onto PK.

Jurr
07-04-2003, 10:56 AM
If we could get Kip Wells back, I'd die!! I saw him live the other night with seats right behind home plate. He was great. He hasn't had a decision in 9 straight games. He's still 2-3. The other night, he pitched 8 innings and gave up one run. Mike Williams blew the save for him, though, continuing the problems Wells has had all year- no help. He gets his curve over, challenges hitters, throws inside when needed, and he struck out Barry Larkin with a 95 m.p.h. fastball in the 8TH INNING!!!!!!!!!

Jurr
07-04-2003, 10:57 AM
The one thing I worry about with Wright doing bullpen work is that normally he's sloppy to start a game. He's gotta get warmed up on the mound for some reason. His first innings are usually terrible, then he cruises. You can't afford to do that in the pen.

guillen4life13
07-04-2003, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by Jurr
The one thing I worry about with Wright doing bullpen work is that normally he's sloppy to start a game. He's gotta get warmed up on the mound for some reason. His first innings are usually terrible, then he cruises. You can't afford to do that in the pen.

I think that he would do fine, and here's why: Gagne himself has said (as have other pitchers who jumped from starting to become stellar relievers) that the whole approach changes when you become a reliever. You know that you don't have to go 5-7 innings. You're just doing one inning, so you can give it your all. Once Wright figures that out, he would be lights out! He's got a really nice fastball, and his other pitches would be there to compliment that. Once he becomes confident as a reliever (and I don't think he has much confidence in his starting abilities, honestly), he would tear things up!


Kip... let's just say that Jurr and I want you back!

B. Diddy
07-04-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by spanishwhite
What does ELO have to do to get your confidence. Cut him some slack.

Pitch well for a full season. I don't want another James Baldwin out there when we head to the playoffs.

B. Diddy
07-04-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by grebeck18
I would never take this trade. Paul Konerko for a mediocre pitcher? You have to be kidding me. Konerko gets traded you might as well trade the rest of the team away.

Ponson is better than mediocre. He's not a stud, but he's a good #3 on almost any team.

How about we don't make any trades, keep the whole team intact, and don't bother making a run for the WS this year? Hell, we should have enough good players left after this fall's fire sale to go 81-81 again next year!

Jurr
07-04-2003, 11:28 AM
I bet if we go into the playoffs, we would keep most of the hitters in the lineup here. We would definitely lose Colon and Gordon, possibly Loaiza.

Nails
07-04-2003, 11:31 AM
Wow, I can't believe how many people are ready to give up on Konerko because of two months.

Jurr
07-04-2003, 11:40 AM
Yeah..I think PK is the most mental player ever, as far as his approach goes. He just needs to relax and have fun, and he will be All Star quality again. It may have been a burden on him to get that big extension. When a guy is that mental, he probably added a ton of pressure on himself to keep producing numbers, and he's pressing. If he can "throw it all out the window" like he said and have fun, he may be a big shot in the arm for the Sox.

Iguana775
07-04-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by B. Diddy
EVERYBODY needs more pitching.

We have two stud starters and Loaiza who may or may not continue to tear it up at his current pace. Are you confident that he will? History suggests that he probably won't.

Ponson would help us get to the playoffs and succeed when we get there more than PK would.

I like Paulie, but I'd like a WS title more.

Also, people this would allow Wright to go to the pen where he could really be an assest in the playoffs.....assuming we make it there. Wright could be a real wild card for us.

spanishwhite
07-04-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Assuming of course that the Sox offer all the free agents arbitration and none of these guys accept it and sign elsewhere. For example, are a lot of teams going to give up a first round pick for a .260 hitting Alomar? Or is it more likely that if offered arbitration Alomar would take the max. 20% cut and we'd be stuck with an aging veteran.

Just something to think about. JR won't offer all these guys arbitration because he knows some may accept it.

Bob

I dont think that we have to offer Alomar arbitration. I think that we will resign Alomar. Think about it. Its not like he is going to break the bank out in free agency. Even if he was playing decent. The teams that would pay alot have a super prospect at 2nd or already have an all star 2nd baseman. The fact that we are trying to resurrect his career and have his brother gives him more reason to stay here.

Everett is the only other one I could see accept arbitration.

spanishwhite
07-04-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
I think that the best choice for having an arm in the pen, could very possibly be Dan Wright. I like the idea of him doing setup duties, and eventually becoming the closer once Koch leaves.

I really think Wright could be the next Eric Gagne. He would probably add a few miles to his fastball (which is already in the 95-96 range), putting it up to 98-100. That's a closer caliber fastball. And on top of that, his other pitches would be harder to hit because of the fastball. I know some of you might think I'm a little off when I say this, but this guy's stuff is amazing, and I think he'd best fit into a relief role, when he does one-two innings per appearance.

Any thoughts?

Other pitches? All he needs is that wicked knuckle curve with that fastball he has and he COULD be a great (not dominant, who knows?) closer. If he does pick up velocity, then I think he could be something SIMILAR to Gagne. Maybe. The mental makeup would be the wildcard. He definitely has the look.