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WillieHarris12
07-03-2003, 04:13 PM
Mac, Jurko, and Harry just said that a rumor concerning the White Sox and Miguel Tejada has emerged. Do you think this is the deal Hawk was talking about?

Randar68
07-03-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by WillieHarris12
Mac, Jurko, and Harry just said that a rumor concerning the White Sox and Miguel Tejada has emerged. Do you think this is the deal Hawk was talking about?

That would "Blow my mind", yes. Didn't Hawk say it would be for pitching, though?

WillieHarris12
07-03-2003, 04:20 PM
He said he could not tell us whether it's a hitter or a pitcher.

A.T. Money
07-03-2003, 04:20 PM
Leave Jose Valentin alone.

B. Diddy
07-03-2003, 04:21 PM
Not only do I think that this would be a poor deal for the Sox (they need another starter or a better closer), but Oakland is currently 47-36, 7 games in back of Seattle, and it's only early July. Even if Seattle does run away with the division, they still have the third best record in the league right now, so they'll at least be going for the Wild Card.

kingpin_rcs
07-03-2003, 04:24 PM
I would think that with the bad blood between Billy bean and KW that this has no chance of happening.

Even if it does, I would be very cautious of any deal that BB is a part of.

ilsox7
07-03-2003, 04:26 PM
I would think that with the bad blood between Billy bean and KW that this has no chance of happening.

What bad blood? If you're referring to Moneyball, well most of the original statements were taken out of context. Apparently, taken in context, Bean didn't really rip anyone. Plus, it was the author's interpretation of Beane. At least that's my understanding of the whole situation.

jeremyb1
07-03-2003, 04:34 PM
a deal for tejada between beane and kenny would be the downfall of our franchise in my opinion if not for the fact we simply don't have all that much young talent left to give up at this point. tejada is overrated and billy realizes that gm's like kenny will overvalue him. he'll use that to suck us dry of our best talent and tejada wouldn't do all that much to improve our club.

i'm confident this deal would never take place though because i don't think we have any one we'd consider trading that billy would value more than the compensation picks he'll get for tejada. we're not going to trade key players on the major league team who most likely make too much money for the a's anyways and i'm not even sure that sending over honel and reed would get the deal done.

Randar68
07-03-2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by kingpin_rcs
I would think that with the bad blood between Billy bean and KW that this has no chance of happening.

Even if it does, I would be very cautious of any deal that BB is a part of.

Beane and Williams are old friends from their playing days and they spoke about the "Moneyball" reference prior to the book even being released. The air is clear.

Teams don't stop dealing with eachother because they don't lick another GM, especially if it is going to be beneficial to their team.

Baseball is a limited market, it is stupid and ignorant business practice to limit and already narrow marketplace because of personal feelings.

FJA
07-03-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
a deal for tejada between beane and kenny would be the downfall of our franchise in my opinion if not for the fact we simply don't have all that much young talent left to give up at this point. tejada is overrated and billy realizes that gm's like kenny will overvalue him. he'll use that to suck us dry of our best talent and tejada wouldn't do all that much to improve our club.

i'm confident this deal would never take place though because i don't think we have any one we'd consider trading that billy would value more than the compensation picks he'll get for tejada. we're not going to trade key players on the major league team who most likely make too much money for the a's anyways and i'm not even sure that sending over honel and reed would get the deal done.

I agree ... nothing Tejada has done this year suggests to me that he should be on the field instead of Jose.

FJA
07-03-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by FJA
I agree ... nothing Tejada has done this year suggests to me that he should be on the field instead of Jose.

To clarify, I realize Tejada has a better batting average (but not a better OBP or SLG) and is a better defender, but he's not THAT much better to the point that I want to risk breaking another superstar into our clubhouse over a guy who has always been known as a clubhouse guy.

cornball
07-03-2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by WillieHarris12
Mac, Jurko, and Harry just said that a rumor concerning the White Sox and Miguel Tejada has emerged. Do you think this is the deal Hawk was talking about?


I think that would be interesting (Tejada) but I think it would have to be for a front line starter or closer.

Randar68
07-03-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by FJA
I agree ... nothing Tejada has done this year suggests to me that he should be on the field instead of Jose.

Maybe you should look at his splits. This year's salary is almost the same as Jose. Miguel hit .161 over the course of April but has since been in the .290 range. He is on pace for another 30+ HR and 100+ RBI season despite the terrible first month.

I would get him if it didn't cost more than 2 top prospects. You are going to get basically 2 first rounders if you don't sign him, and if you can sign him for a reasonable price, he is going be awesome in Chicago.

Oakland is a rediculously pitcher-friendly park. Take him to the AL Central and he will be an annual MVP candidate.

hold2dibber
07-03-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
a deal for tejada between beane and kenny would be the downfall of our franchise in my opinion if not for the fact we simply don't have all that much young talent left to give up at this point.

Sheesh - "the downfalll of the franchise"? Let's not get overly dramatic here. And when you say "we simply don't have all tha tmuch young talent left" do you mean based upon the 4 to 5 minor league players dealt this week? If so, I've got to disagree. Of the guys who are leaving, only Ring and Webster (if he goes) are real losses, IMHO, and the trades will not have significantly decreased the quality of the Sox farm system (particularly in light of the fact that they've done a damn good job signing their draft picks this year).

tejada is overrated and billy realizes that gm's like kenny will overvalue him. he'll use that to suck us dry of our best talent and tejada wouldn't do all that much to improve our club.

I don't know how much Kenny will overvalue Tejada, but I agree that Tejada wouldn't be the greatest acquisition in the world. He is better than Jose, but I still like Jose and think that the Sox would be better suited going after pitching at this point. I hope the rumor is false.

i'm confident this deal would never take place though because i don't think we have any one we'd consider trading that billy would value more than the compensation picks he'll get for tejada. we're not going to trade key players on the major league team who most likely make too much money for the a's anyways and i'm not even sure that sending over honel and reed would get the deal done.

If Williams traded Honel and Reed for 1/2 year of Tejada, I think I'd slump into the fetal position and sob. If you're going to trade away those two studs, go get someone who's going to be here a while (and who's really good), like Giles.

Randar68
07-03-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
If Williams traded Honel and Reed for 1/2 year of Tejada, I think I'd slump into the fetal position and sob. If you're going to trade away those two studs, go get someone who's going to be here a while (and who's really good), like Giles.


Smartest thing I've read all day. The man is an OBP machine.

kevingrt
07-03-2003, 04:53 PM
Jeez, if we got Tejada, I would not want to be the guy filling out this lineup card day in and day out

FJA
07-03-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Maybe you should look at his splits. This year's salary is almost the same as Jose. Miguel hit .161 over the course of April but has since been in the .290 range. He is on pace for another 30+ HR and 100+ RBI season despite the terrible first month.

I would get him if it didn't cost more than 2 top prospects. You are going to get basically 2 first rounders if you don't sign him, and if you can sign him for a reasonable price, he is going be awesome in Chicago.

Oakland is a rediculously pitcher-friendly park. Take him to the AL Central and he will be an annual MVP candidate.

Looked at the splits, and I'll concede his stats are much better than Jose's if you take out April.

I'd take Tejada if it didn't involve giving up either Honel or Reed ... but knowing Beane it would almost certainly take at least one of them.

NewyorkSoxFan
07-03-2003, 04:57 PM
First of all let me say that I doubt this would happen b/c Oakland is in the race. However if it did, I am sure KW is thinking that he could move Jose to 3rd where he played decently, and put Tejada at short. KW's thinking is that he wants experienced guys playing in the Playoffs ( if we make it) as opposed to untested players.

Their was an article in the Southtown today that quoted KW as saying that he couldn't envision this team deep in the playoffs with untested players. So it may just be rumor thrown against the wall by ESPN in order to get callers, but I think this would be his thought process if he were serious about making this kind of deal. Gotta admit, what an infield Valentin, Tejada, Alomar, Thomas. Whoa. Let's play SMASHBALL!!!


NYSF :o:

MisterB
07-03-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Baseball is a limited market, it is stupid and ignorant business practice to limit and already narrow marketplace because of personal feelings.

see: Reinsdorf vs. Boras :angry:

balboner
07-03-2003, 05:02 PM
KW, JUST SAY NO TO TEJADA! Knowing Beane, he would love to get J. Reed and Honel in a deal for a soon to be FA like Tejada. I think if anything, we should look at getting another pitcher without giving up our top 3 or 4 prospects. Since this team will be dismantled if we dont make the playoffs, KW can't leave the minors bare.

kingpin_rcs
07-03-2003, 05:04 PM
I agree. I would only like this deal if it meant that Jose was still on the team and playing almost everyday. Jose brings so much to the team that you can't see on the back of his baseball card. I feel that he is the heart and soul of the Sox. Besides, what would it be like if we met the A's in the playoffs and Jose was there - in an A's uniform. Ouch - that would be painfull.

B. Diddy
07-03-2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Maybe you should look at his splits. This year's salary is almost the same as Jose. Miguel hit .161 over the course of April but has since been in the .290 range. He is on pace for another 30+ HR and 100+ RBI season despite the terrible first month.

I would get him if it didn't cost more than 2 top prospects. You are going to get basically 2 first rounders if you don't sign him, and if you can sign him for a reasonable price, he is going be awesome in Chicago.

Oakland is a rediculously pitcher-friendly park. Take him to the AL Central and he will be an annual MVP candidate.

The thing, though, is that we don't NEED Tejada. We NEEDED people who could competently play 2B and CF and hit reasonably well. That void was filled earlier this week. Jose isn't the greatest defensive SS out there and he won't put up Tejada's numbers, but his skills are ACCEPTABLE. He's also a leader in the clubhouse (hell, the ONLY leader) and well-liked by the fans... so why undermine is value to the team by booting him from SS? Don't you think that might screw up the clubhouse chemistry?

What we could still use, in order of preference, are a stud closer and another solid starting pitcher. Either of those would boost our team from "very good" to "great."

DrCrawdad
07-03-2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
...Teams don't stop dealing with eachother because they don't lick another GM...

GMs licking each other? Are you confusing Billy Beane (Oakland GM & former player) with Bill Bean (festive former player)?

joecrede
07-03-2003, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by balboner
KW, JUST SAY NO TO TEJADA! Knowing Beane, he would love to get J. Reed and Honel in a deal for a soon to be FA like Tejada. I think if anything, we should look at getting another pitcher without giving up our top 3 or 4 prospects. Since this team will be dismantled if we dont make the playoffs, KW can't leave the minors bare.

The thing about next year is . . . the Twins and Royals could lose key players as well.

Think the Twins starters are bad this year, wait a year. Santanna will be in the rotation to go along with Lohse, but Radke, Milton, Mays? Yuck. On top of the pen losing Santanna it'll also most likely lose Hawkins and Gaurdado to free-agency.

As far as the Royals go, they're going to lose Beltran to free-agency.

Not saying I'd do it, but I think the Sox could afford to deal a couple of their top prospects without seriously jeopardizing their chances at a division title in the next year or two.

longshot7
07-03-2003, 05:30 PM
My concern is whether we want to trade for three guys all in their walk year.
Keep Valentin & Crede. Get another pitcher.

Foulke You
07-03-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by B. Diddy
The thing, though, is that we don't NEED Tejada. We NEEDED people who could competently play 2B and CF and hit reasonably well. That void was filled earlier this week. Jose isn't the greatest defensive SS out there and he won't put up Tejada's numbers, but his skills are ACCEPTABLE. He's also a leader in the clubhouse (hell, the ONLY leader) and well-liked by the fans... so why undermine is value to the team by booting him from SS? Don't you think that might screw up the clubhouse chemistry?

What we could still use, in order of preference, are a stud closer and another solid starting pitcher. Either of those would boost our team from "very good" to "great."

Couldn't agree more B Diddy. We addressed our weaknesses. CF and 2B are no longer a problem. Tejada isn't the "final piece" to the puzzle. Valentin's stroke is back and along with Frank Thomas, he is the heart and soul of the White Sox.

Another proven starter to replace Dan Wright in the rotation would be invaluable. This could give the team flexibility to replace the struggling Gary Glover in the bullpen with Wright for long relief or spot starts.

Another weakness the Sox have right now is left handed relief pitchers. Kelly Wunsch has had another setback and isn't expected back any time soon. This leaves Marte as your only effective lefty out of the pen. Sanders is too young and inexperienced to depend on in a pennant drive or playoff series. It is a big gamble to just assume Kelly is coming back and will pitch as effectively as he did in the early part of this season. The Sox would do good to pick up another proven left handed relief pitcher or a righty who is tough on left handers.

Viva Magglio
07-03-2003, 07:14 PM
Miguel Tejada would be nice to have playing short for us, but he is not essential. Another pitching are is, I believe. Also, I am afraid Billy Beane would take advantage of Kenny Williams and rob us blind.

B. Diddy
07-03-2003, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Another weakness the Sox have right now is left handed relief pitchers. Kelly Wunsch has had another setback and isn't expected back any time soon. This leaves Marte as your only effective lefty out of the pen. Sanders is too young and inexperienced to depend on in a pennant drive or playoff series. It is a big gamble to just assume Kelly is coming back and will pitch as effectively as he did in the early part of this season. The Sox would do good to pick up another proven left handed relief pitcher or a righty who is tough on left handers.

That wouldn't be a bad idea either. I had not heard about Wunsch's setback. Too bad JM pitched his arm out in 2000.

kermittheefrog
07-03-2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by WillieHarris12
Mac, Jurko, and Harry just said that a rumor concerning the White Sox and Miguel Tejada has emerged. Do you think this is the deal Hawk was talking about?

All I have to say is may forces beyond my control save us from Mr. Swings At Everything.

NewyorkSoxFan
07-03-2003, 10:28 PM
Has anyone heard the rumor about the Sox looking at Griffey? It has been circulating on the Reds board. So much has happened this week I am not being so quick to dismiss it. He is signed for the next 5 years, and he is making 10 million this year. Are the Reds so desperate to get rid of him that they would trade him for prospects and a ML player. He is hitting only .246 8 20. Pretty poor numbers for someone of his former stature. Anybody else heard anything about this?


NYSF

FarWestChicago
07-03-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
All I have to say is may forces beyond my control save us from Mr. Swings At Everything. And it's not like he's a leather larcenist either. :o:

Rocklive99
07-03-2003, 11:19 PM
Well, if this deal is ever made, I don't think that Valentin must be the odd man out. He can DH with Frank's resurgence at first base. Frankly, I am very nervous about Jose's defense when one is in the middle of a pennant race.

gosox41
07-03-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by WillieHarris12
Mac, Jurko, and Harry just said that a rumor concerning the White Sox and Miguel Tejada has emerged. Do you think this is the deal Hawk was talking about?

If Billy Beane decides to trade Tejada over to the Sox then KW and all Sox fans better bite the pillow because things are going to get ugly. This has makings of a disaster waiting all over it because we all know KW will way overpay and ruin any little confidence I may have goten in him the last couple of days.

Tejada won't come cheap.

Bob

fquaye149
07-04-2003, 03:10 AM
it could be horrible i GUESS if we got tejada...but it could be quite good too


valentin, sure he has the "intangibles," but he has some tangibles that aren't helping us too much

think about that game against the twins where he threw the ball away and let teh winning run score?

i've also seen him pull buckners quite a few times.

not only that but he's hitting shy of 2 fiddy, which is where tejada is now, and he's coming back stronger....

let's be realistic:

tejada's not one of the best ss's in the league defensively,

and his numbers last year might ahve been an aberration....

but he is much closer to being a derek jeter than jose is.

and jeter is almost 1/2 way to being a nomar, who is almost 1/2 way to being an a-rod...so if you look at it, we're almost getting an a-rod!..haha

but seriously....good teams have GOOD defense, not sometimes they'll make a nice play but pray they don't hurt us defense...

i'd love to have tejada if the price is right...but it could well be too high.

he's still an improvement over manos