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View Full Version : Alomar/Everett trade news : around the horn


JUGGERNAUT
07-02-2003, 10:33 AM
I'm going to put all the trade related excepts I can in this all encompassing thread for your info & enjoyment.

Grandforks.com:
"Oh, my goodness, I'm going to have a heart attack. I'm going to lose my hair," Twins center fielder Torii Hunter said, running his hand over his clean-shaven scalp, upon hearing of the latter trade after Minnesota's 6-1 loss to the White Sox. "We need to step it up because those guys over there are stepping it up. Dawg, that's a wakeup call."

How clear a message? Both players are notorious Twin killers, acquired the day the Twins were in Chicago already smarting from a 10-3 loss in the series opener Monday.

Alomar has a lifetime .309 batting average against the Twins, with 11 home runs, and was especially tough on this group of Twins players when he was with Cleveland from 1999-2001. Everett not only has a .353 lifetime average against the Twins, his second highest mark against any AL opponent, but he hits better at the Metrodome (.389) than any other ballpark in the majors.

The Alomar move alone raised eyebrows in the Twins' clubhouse before the game.

"I had a big reaction to it," Hunter said. "A rash. I heard he came to Chicago, and I broke out in a rash."

The White Sox were able to get the Mets and Rangers to pay all but $150,000 each of the contracts of both players.

"I wish we could get a deal like that," Hunter said.

"What can you do?" Hunter said. "I just work here. I know they're not going to do anything. But I want to be wrong."

Despite his struggles since being traded to the Mets before last season (.266 last year and .262 this year), Alomar has a .313 average in 11 seasons in the American League, including .323, .310 and .336 his three seasons with Cleveland (1999-2001).

JUGGERNAUT
07-02-2003, 10:37 AM
History tells us that one of those two pitchers, Royce Ring or Edwin Almonte, is likely to come back and haunt the Sox.

But that's the price you pay for trying to get to October, and if you can get there - a giant "if'' - you might be in pretty sweet shape with Bartolo Colon, Esteban Loaiza and Mark Buehrle.

So Williams did what he had to do, which was try to improve the club to make the fans happy, and do it without spending money to make the owners happy.

Neat trick. In a few months, we'll know if what he pulled out of his hat was a tiger or a kitten.

THIS STATEMENT PROMPTS THE
WORD: ARSEHOLE !!!
And then there's Carl Everett, who can't play the field at all, and certainly not with Carlos Lee to his right. On top of that, he's selfish at the plate and in the clubhouse. As good a hitter as he is, it's a gutsy but very dangerous move for a team that finally has gotten its stuff together.

********! CARLOS LEE HAS BEEN 1 OF THE BEST D PLAYERS ON THE TEAM THIS YEAR & HAS MORE WEB GEMS THAN ANY OTHER OF'er!

If you had a brain, you would know he was 20 pds over his current wt & that played a big part in his previous yr's mis-cues. He's got more web gems than any Cub OFer. If you stopped drinking your blue koolaid maybe your brain might get some oxygen!



BARRY ROZNER's is KOTEK BOY 2!
Ken Williams called Robby Alomar "another quality person'' on the club. His nickname in New York was "Misery.''

mandmandm
07-02-2003, 10:43 AM
If they are haunting the team formally known as the 2003 world champions then so be it.

JUGGERNAUT
07-02-2003, 11:07 AM
http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/sports/6217390.htm

Hart said the players would be a combination of pitchers and position players. The White Sox's top pitching prospect is left-hander Neal Cotts, who is 8-2 with a 1.83 earned-run average in 14 starts at Double-A Birmingham, but Hart said there were some players the
Rangers asked for but couldn't get.

WHY DOESN'T THIS GET REPORTED BY THE DOUCHE BAG ROZNER?

"He's a spark plug, a fiery guy," White Sox first baseman Frank Thomas said after his team's 6-1 victory over Minnesota on Tuesday. "Who knows? I know he's a very good player who plays hard on defense and offense. I've heard they've had no problems out of him in Texas this year, so he's a welcome addition, a true pro who plays hard. We'll definitely stick up for him and make him part of this family."

JUGGERNAUT
07-02-2003, 11:09 AM
http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/sports/6215134.htm

After the announcement early in the day that the White Sox had acquired Alomar, a 12-time all-star second baseman, in a trade with the New York Mets, the White Sox's usually apathetic fan base rushed the U.S. Cellular Field ticket windows in a buying frenzy that produced the largest walk-up sale in the 13-year history of the ballpark representing almost half the 30,694 announced attendance.

ROZNER YOU SUCK!
Even more impressive than Chicago's charged-up offensive start was the way the Sox's suspect fielders played defensively. Left fielder Carlos Lee robbed A.J. Pierzynski of extra bases and a possible run batted in in the second inning with a running, lunging, falling catch of a line drive in the corner

JUGGERNAUT
07-02-2003, 11:17 AM
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/021sd3.htm

"Roberto Alomar will get it done," Harris said. "I'm anxious to work with this guy and see what he tells me about double-play pivots and back-hands. I'm anxious. He can only make me better. I still marvel at him, and I'm still growing up.

"When you talk about Roberto, one of best defensive second baseman in game ... I want to pick up whatever I can. If I have questions, I'm going to ask him."

Rios & DAng were designated for assignment to make room for Everett & Alomar.

Dadawg_77
07-02-2003, 11:26 AM
Here is some help Jugger, From the Transaction Oracle at BaseballPrimer.com


http://www.baseballprimer.com/to/

Chicago White Sox

Acquired OF Carl Everett from the Texas Rangers for three players to be named later.

Oracle Says:

Thumbs-up for now, although I don't envision the 8 players the Rangers will pick from being the tip-top prospects in the organization. Yes, Everett's not been pretty statistically or visually in centerfield in a limited sample size this season, but White Sox centerfielders have hit 222/263/304 this year. Unlike the Alomar trade in which the White Sox picked up a name non-solution, the Everett trade features the White Sox correctly identifying a team weakness and finding a real solution.
That is, of course, if they use him in centerfield. While a lot of managers who make mistakes on purpose (Dusty Baker and the Lenny Harris worship), Manuel makes moves at random, so there's no telling how they'll use Everett the rest of the season once the games are actually played. As a centerfielder, I like this trade very much.


--posted 9:45 AM EDT / Discussion (1 Comment)

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Tuesday, July 1 - Full Transaction Oracle Archive


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Chicago White Sox

Acquired 2B Roberto Alomar from the New York Mets for P Royce Ring, P Edwin Almonte, and IF Andy Salvo.

Oracle Says:

Of all the places Alomar could have possibly ended up, the White Sox decided to step forward and ensure that Alomar went to one of the teams which had the least use for him.
Alomar's looking quite toast-worthy and at this point, provides no improvement at 2B over D'Angelo Jimenez. That's generous, too; Jimenez is having the better season.

No, the prospects aren't great, but despite the terrible record that minor league relievers have (less than a quarter of current closers weren't starters), I'd still like to hang on to Royce Ring if I can. Almonte is a journeyman minor-league reliever of no real consequence and Salvo is a worthless A-ball utility guy throw-in.

Even if they didn't give up much, they didn't really fix any of their problems. The bullpen's weak and even if Ring never helps out the team, they gave away someone who could help fetch someone in return.

Thumbs down for the Sox for not understanding where their problems are. Thumbs in the middle for the Mets as I think I would have, in their position, risked offering Alomar arbitration and get the draft picks since they're still paying Alomar's salary. If I could save that 3-ish million, I'd take Ring over a pick. Draft pick compensation is based off of 3 year triple crown stats after all and projecting this year out, he'll still have a 3 year average of something like .280-14-75, which should do OK among 2B.


--posted 3:16 PM EDT / Discussion (39 Comments)

JUGGERNAUT
07-02-2003, 11:26 AM
http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intid=37804287

"I'm excited to have the opportunity to go to Chicago and play with a team that has a chance to win. And to be able to play with my brother (Sandy) again is something I'm excited about.''

Williams:
"I know the desire. He was thrilled to death when I talked to him this afternoon, and he's going to give you 100 percent, day in and day out.

Thomas has suddenly become the team's spokesman:
"You only get so many opportunities to win in this league,'' Thomas said. "Adding a key player (Alomar) like this, he could be piece that's been missing. Speed, defense, power, he's cream of the crop. He's struggled a little bit this year, but a change of scenery will probably help him.''

JUGGERNAUT
07-02-2003, 11:31 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/6213910.htm

The Royals wanted Alomar, 35, for their own playoff push and had reached agreement with the Mets on financial terms. But Royals officials say they weren't willing to surrender the prospects the Mets demanded in return.

So the Mets turned to the White Sox and nabbed left-handed reliever Royce Ring, the 18th overall pick in the 2002 draft. Ring, 22, is 1-4 with 19 saves and a 2.52 ERA at Class AA Birmingham.

WHY IS IT THAT ALL PRESS OUTSIDE CHICAGO IS FAVORABLE TO THE SOX AND ALL PRESS IN IT .. SUCKS!?

JUGGERNAUT
07-02-2003, 11:57 AM
The Rangers will receive two lower level minor-leaguers to be named later and a third conditional minor-leaguer to be named later. The Sox will also receive cash from Texas to offset the remaining $4.55 million of Everett's $9.15 million contract.

Once Alomar arrives, the Sox are expected to designate D'Angelo Jimenez for assignment, the first step to trading him or releasing him. The 25-year-old infielder is out of minor-league options.

Jimenez started 67 games at second base this season but management grew tired of his baserunning errors and defensive gaffes.

Williams said such mental mistakes "disturbed" him.

"It looks like our guys have rallied and we can see beyond the horizon," he said. "We can dream again. To insure that, we need to be able to look out there and have the confidence that somebody knows how to play the game the right way."

The switch-hitting Alomar is likely to bat second when Willie Harris plays center field. Alomar will lead off when Aaron Rowand is in the lineup.

Everett has cooled off after a great start, though. He hit just .211 in June with four homers and eight RBIs.

JUGGERNAUT
07-02-2003, 12:01 PM
http://www.nynewsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-alomar023355915jul02,0,3031941.story?coll=nyc-sports-short-navigation

Two other teams were in the running for Alomar through yesterday morning, Duquette said. They are believed to be the Reds and Royals. Duquette said White Sox GM Ken Williams had refused to include Ring until the Mets insisted another team was ready to close a deal for Alomar.

Category Pre-Met As a Met*

Games 145 148

Batting .307 .265

At-bats 557 558

Runs 96 71 = upgrade for SOX

Hits 171 148 = upgrade for SOX

Doubles 32 29 = upgrade for SOX

Triples 5 3

Home runs 14 8

RBIs 73 49 = expected in NL with 9th=pitcher

Walks 64 58

Strikeouts 68 82 = concern

Stolen bases 32 14 = concern

*2003 numbers prorated for an entire year.

JUGGERNAUT
07-02-2003, 12:15 PM
No matter what Alomar gives the SOX at the plate (anything better than DAng or Harris is a plus) his GG D will definitely make the SOX a better D club.

DAng alone cost the SOX about 5 victories in the 1st half with stupid play.

To get a GG upgrade at 2B for 150K is worth Ring, Almonte, & junk.

I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYBODY ELSE SAYS. THIS IS A TRADE THAT DEFINITELY IMPROVES THE SOX.
And it cost next to nothing $ wise to make.

BIG KUDOS to KW!

The Everett trade is essentially a MAJOR upgrade over RIOS for 150K & non top-tier prospects. There is a chance he will thrive in the new lineup & fill the gap left by Slownerko.

Again, BIG KUDOS to KW!

Both trades definitely improve the club & have the potential to propel the SOX ABOVE & BEYOND just a DIV crown.

More importantly:
It solidifies the SOX strategy as a winning one for the 18th ranked rev club.

Draft mostly pitching & trade the pitching for position players as your needs arise.

It's amazing that KW's strategy & guts may in the end turn the fortunes of the SOX around. Especially given all the heat we placed on him, his personal crisis, & the possibility he would resign a few months back.

The guy's time with the SOX is worthy of a book deal that will reap millions.

KW seems to be the best point man for the SOX strategy. With the real possibility now of that strategy leading to both a div crown & a WS championship this could turn out to be the biggest sports story of the year.

Randar68
07-02-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
KW seems to be the best point man for the SOX strategy. With the real possibility now of that strategy leading to both a div crown & a WS championship this could turn out to be the biggest sports story of the year.


Let's not put the cart before the horse here! Colon, Jose, Sandy, Everett, and Alomar are free agents after the season, Loaiza has a 3.5 million dollar option, Thomas has a dual-option, Carlos is arbitration eligible, Buehrle goes to arbitration...

This is a one-year run. If things don't work out, the Sox could have a crap-load of draft picks, but that help won't be there for years. The Sox have more questions than answers this upcoming offseason.

MarqSox
07-02-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Let's not put the cart before the horse here! Colon, Jose, Sandy, Everett, and Alomar are free agents after the season, Loaiza has a 3.5 million dollar option, Thomas has a dual-option, Carlos is arbitration eligible, Buehrle goes to arbitration...

This is a one-year run. If things don't work out, the Sox could have a crap-load of draft picks, but that help won't be there for years. The Sox have more questions than answers this upcoming offseason.

We'll be in trouble next year ... so let's enjoy the here and now and let the Hateable Losers worry about Waiting Till Next Season! :gulp:

gosox3072
07-02-2003, 01:36 PM
WHy do you say that we have no chance after this year. We wont sign Alomar or Everett but we still would have the same team as this past year. We basicly traded for 2 good veterans for 1 guy that might make the bigs and 5 that probably wont

JUGGERNAUT
07-02-2003, 01:55 PM
Pitcher Tom Gordon called Alomar "certainly one of the best offensive guys in baseball. I don't see how he can hurt our team."

Reserve Brian Daubach said, "We're playing quite well now, and adding somebody like that always helps. We hope he plays as he did in Cleveland. We have to win some pennants here."

"Robbie is not a rah-rah guy," Sandy said. "He's a quiet guy. An observer of the game. He'll see things and pass them along to his teammates."

1951Campbell
07-02-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
We'll be in trouble next year ... so let's enjoy the here and now and let the Hateable Losers worry about Waiting Till Next Season! :gulp:

Exactly. As if before this trade 2004 looked like the land of wine and roses anyway. Let's just win it in 2003!

soxruleEP
07-02-2003, 02:51 PM
>>>Of all the places Alomar could have possibly ended up, the White Sox decided to step forward and ensure that Alomar went to one of the teams which had the least use for him.
Alomar's looking quite toast-worthy and at this point, provides no improvement at 2B over D'Angelo Jimenez. That's generous, too; Jimenez is having the better season.<<<

Clearly written by someone who goes entirely by stats and doesn't watch the games. Alomar would have to really stink up the joint to be having a worse year than Jimenez when their stats are close in many ways.

[Note: I discount much of the vitriol handed out on the Score yesterday by the Mets announcer. After having watch Roberto Alomar dismantle the AL for ten years, I doubt he became a baseball idiot overnight. The day-to-day second guessing and overreacting in NYC make us look calm in comparison.]

I believe stats tell you things but Jimenez has been bad in ways that don't show up in the stats.

Jeremy1 has an excellent analysis of Jimenez v. Harris in a another thread, but I believe that Jimenez's negatives outweigh his positives.

hold2dibber
07-02-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by soxruleEP
>>>Of all the places Alomar could have possibly ended up, the White Sox decided to step forward and ensure that Alomar went to one of the teams which had the least use for him.
Alomar's looking quite toast-worthy and at this point, provides no improvement at 2B over D'Angelo Jimenez. That's generous, too; Jimenez is having the better season.<<<

Clearly written by someone who goes entirely by stats and doesn't watch the games. Alomar would have to really stink up the joint to be having a worse year than Jimenez when their stats are close in many ways.

[Note: I discount much of the vitriol handed out on the Score yesterday by the Mets announcer. After having watch Roberto Alomar dismantle the AL for ten years, I doubt he became a baseball idiot overnight. The day-to-day second guessing and overreacting in NYC make us look calm in comparison.]

I believe stats tell you things but Jimenez has been bad in ways that don't show up in the stats.

Jeremy1 has an excellent analysis of Jimenez v. Harris in a another thread, but I believe that Jimenez's negatives outweigh his positives.

Well said; I completely agree.