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View Full Version : Baseball Primer on the Alomar deal...


MarkEdward
07-01-2003, 04:31 PM
http://www.baseballprimer.com/to/

I pretty much had the same reaction. Doesn't hurt us, but doesn't fill a very important need, like center field.

kevingrt
07-01-2003, 04:33 PM
Wait you're saying 2B wasn't a problem area?

MarkEdward
07-01-2003, 04:36 PM
I hate responding to my own posts, but did anyone check out Alomar's stats against lefties? .500 OPS in 82 at-bats! Over the last three years, he's had a .744 OPS vs. lefties. I wonder if we'll see a Jimenez/Alomar platoon.

thecell
07-01-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
http://www.baseballprimer.com/to/

I pretty much had the same reaction. Doesn't hurt us, but doesn't fill a very important need, like center field.

Thanks for being negative! The Sox see something that can make them better by giving up unproven minor league prospects and people complain. I guess Sox fans do have some kind of complex. We bitch and moan when our team doesn't do anything, and when we DO something it's the same thing. I WANT TO WIN NOW DAMN IT AND AT LEAST WE'RE TRYING WITHOUT GIVING UP TOO MUCH!

MarkEdward
07-01-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
Wait you're saying 2B wasn't a problem area?

No, it was the least of our problems. Third base, catcher, and center field are in much worse shape.

ilsox7
07-01-2003, 04:39 PM
Alomar's looking quite toast-worthy and at this point, provides no improvement at 2B over D'Angelo Jimenez. That's generous, too; Jimenez is having the better season.

Either this baseballprimer hasn't watched one Sox game this year or doesn't value defense one iota. Why don't people realize that a team has to be strong up the middle defensively? At minimum, the Sox have maintained the status quo with the bat at 2nd base and upgraded defensively leaps and bounds. Also, everyone keeps saying how much better of a season DJ is having than Alomar, ignoring the fact that JM has implied that Willie would be getting more pt at 2nd than DJ.

Bottom line: Good trade for the Sox with real impact. I'll take a gold glover up the middle any day. And if he can turn it around at the plate (and I think he can), that's quite an addition for giving up almost nothing.

Bucktown
07-01-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I hate responding to my own posts, but did anyone check out Alomar's stats against lefties? .500 OPS in 82 at-bats! Over the last three years, he's had a .744 OPS vs. lefties. I wonder if we'll see a Jimenez/Alomar platoon.
Alomar had been selected for 12 straight All-Star games and won 10 Gold Gloves. He batted .336 with 20 home runs and 100 RBI in his final season with the Indians.

doublem23
07-01-2003, 04:43 PM
What an incredible waste of a first round pick... Nice job, KW.

MarkEdward
07-01-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
Alomar had been selected for 12 straight All-Star games and won 10 Gold Gloves. He batted .336 with 20 home runs and 100 RBI in his final season with the Indians.

So you're just going to ignore his bad seasons with the Mets?

thecell
07-01-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
Alomar had been selected for 12 straight All-Star games and won 10 Gold Gloves. He batted .336 with 20 home runs and 100 RBI in his final season with the Indians.

Defense doesn't mean squat...besides Jimenez has a higher OPS this year. AND Jimenez will make 12 All-Star teams and win 10 Gold Gloves before his career is over.

thecell
07-01-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
So you're just going to ignore his bad seasons with the Mets?

All 1.5 years of them? Frank had a longer bad streak than that. But you're failing to see the fundamental improvement this move makes to our team.

doublem23
07-01-2003, 04:45 PM
Eh, I guess on the bright side this will keep Miles buried in the minors where he belongs.

Randar68
07-01-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
So you're just going to ignore his bad seasons with the Mets?

Hitter's Park, Losing Team, and refusal to give an extension. Add the media, and there are ample excuses if one wishes to use them.

How about this one: No Protection in the lineup.

MisterB
07-01-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
http://www.baseballprimer.com/to/

I pretty much had the same reaction. Doesn't hurt us, but doesn't fill a very important need, like center field.

It's obvious they went purely on offensive numbers when judging this deal. Alomar's superior defense, baserunning and situational hitting skills more than make up for Jimenez's current edge in offensive stats. This now opens up Jimenez, Harris or Graffanino as possible trade bait for a CF. Considering DJ's plate patience, I wonder if he could be part of a deal to the A's for Singleton. Netting Alomar and Singleton would be a major defensive and minor offensive upgrade up the middle.

MarkEdward
07-01-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by thecell


All 1.5 years of them? Frank had a longer bad streak than that. But you're failing to see the fundamental improvement this move makes to our team.

Frank was younger, and was coming back from injury. Alomar is getting worse because of age. His skills are just deteriorating. He's not going to magically begin to hit .300 again.


Originally posted by Randar68

How about this one: No Protection in the lineup.

The protection myth has been proven false. (http://www.baseball1.com/faqs/protection-faq.html)

I know that he's played in a pitchers' park, but should that affect his OBP that much? Also, I don't see what being on a losing team has to do with Alomar's two years of crapiness. Alex Rodriguez plays on a bad team, but that doesn't affect his stats.

soxfan45
07-01-2003, 04:55 PM
Whoever said that the Sox need help at catcher hasn't apparantly looked at the numbers. The Sox are #1 in SB
in the AL. That is due to both to our pitchers holding guys on but more importantly Olivo being an outstanding fielder.

That was a really misinformed comment. Yes, hes not the best hitting but he's young. However, his fielding is outstanding.

gosox3072
07-01-2003, 04:56 PM
MARK what the heck are you talkin about our biggest problems are 3b catcher and CF?!??!?!?!?!?!Give me a break how do you find crede and olivo a weak spot? these are young guys that are starting to get the job done! Center Field we have a problem but good job KW i like the trade!

doublem23
07-01-2003, 04:57 PM
Uh...

Look at the Sox's depth chart at catching behind Olivo and then tell me we don't need another.

voodoochile
07-01-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Uh...

Look at the Sox's depth chart at catching behind Olivo and then tell me we don't need another.

Alomar is a fine backup. He has hit well this year, is good with the pitchers and is inexpensive. Some veteran talent is necessry to bring home a pennant...

JRIG
07-01-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by ilsox7
Either this baseballprimer hasn't watched one Sox game this year or doesn't value defense one iota. Why don't people realize that a team has to be strong up the middle defensively? At minimum, the Sox have maintained the status quo with the bat at 2nd base and upgraded defensively leaps and bounds. Also, everyone keeps saying how much better of a season DJ is having than Alomar, ignoring the fact that JM has implied that Willie would be getting more pt at 2nd than DJ.


The Yankees just won 4 championships in 5 years with arguably the worst defensive shortstop in baseball, Derek Jeter, a 2nd baseman who couldn't throw the ball to 1st base, Chuck Koblauch, and a catcher, Jorge Posada, whio is average at best defensively.

Defense in general is overrated. Robbie Alomar while a very very good defensive 2nd baseman has also been overrated on that end, IMHO.

No matter what Jerry said about Willie playing more, after a week or two of his .400 OPS that would be changed anyway. Besides, we've heard Jerry say a lot of things over the years.

:jerry
"Royce Clayton is benched. Ecept when I start him tomorrow. And then play him for five consecutive games after that."

NewyorkSoxFan
07-01-2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
What an incredible waste of a first round pick... Nice job, KW.

I don't understand some of you, you want us to get better, but you want to give up all our crap for a player that can help us. They are paying 4mil dollars of his salary, I am sure they wanted another player in order to pick up the salary. We are not the Yankees, or the Dodgers, or Braves, Red Sox, or even the Cubs.
We don't have an endless stream of money, so KW has to be creative. How hard is it to be Brian Cashman when you can have a payroll of 120mil dollars? Let me see him come here and build a team that on the high side the salary of the roster is 55 million dollars.

And we are worried about Royce friggin Ring, Give me a break!!!
Next we will say we don't want to lose Aaron Miles for Beltran.

NYSF :angry:

MarkEdward
07-01-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by gosox3072
MARK what the heck are you talkin about our biggest problems are 3b catcher and CF?!??!?!?!?!?!Give me a break how do you find crede and olivo a weak spot? these are young guys that are starting to get the job done! Center Field we have a problem but good job KW i like the trade!

It's not like I want to trade Crede and Olivo (in fact, I own a Crede jersey), but this year they haven't been hitting well at all. Olivo hasn't been that bad (-3.5 VORP, but his defense may make up for that), but Crede has been the worst everyday hitter since Paul Konerko was benched.

It's hard to win a title when three of your starters have OBPs under .300 (Rowand, Crede, Olivo). Oh well, here's to beating the odds. :bandance:

jabrch
07-01-2003, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
No, it was the least of our problems. Third base, catcher, and center field are in much worse shape.


THIRD BASE? That's a problem area? I don't think so...Crede looks like he is coming around. If his second half is close to last year, we are fine. What we now have is a great #2 hitter who will make our 3, 4, 5 that much more dangerous. I agree that we need a CF still and need a long term (not this year) solution at SS, but for this season, the team is now built to contend for this division...

shane
07-01-2003, 05:30 PM
Alomar should get out of his funk now that he's back in the AL. He didn't like NY or playing for the Mets. I expect him to be a tremendous help offensively and defensively. He will be much happier than he's been since leaving Cleveland and it will probably show, soon. This is all speculation, but hey, sometimes you have to look beyond the stats.

jeremyb1
07-01-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
It's obvious they went purely on offensive numbers when judging this deal. Alomar's superior defense, baserunning and situational hitting skills more than make up for Jimenez's current edge in offensive stats. This now opens up Jimenez, Harris or Graffanino as possible trade bait for a CF. Considering DJ's plate patience, I wonder if he could be part of a deal to the A's for Singleton. Netting Alomar and Singleton would be a major defensive and minor offensive upgrade up the middle.

baserunning and defense are helpful but we'd be much better off improving the sub .600 ops we're getting from third or the sub .700 ops from catcher and centerfield than simply improving defense and baserunning at one spot in the lineup. the difference between a well below average hitter and an above average hitter is much greater than the difference between two average hitters one of which plays better defense and runs better.

fquaye149
07-01-2003, 05:38 PM
EVERYONE WHO SWITCHES LEAGUES HAS TROUBLE MATCHING THEIR STATS...and everyone is a sweeping statement...but most people do

JIM THOME. don't tell me if we could have jim thome as a dh, you'd say, but look what he's done w/ phillie