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View Full Version : Alomar for Almonte and Ring


clarkent
07-01-2003, 01:22 PM
There it is-- we gave up alot.

DrCrawdad
07-01-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by clarkent
There it is-- we gave up alot.

I agree. That's quite a bit for an aging 2nd baseman. I guess the Sox look at it as though they got him for free for a year.

kermittheefrog
07-01-2003, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by clarkent
There it is-- we gave up alot.

We didn't give up anything, decent trade.

hold2dibber
07-01-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by clarkent
There it is-- we gave up alot.

That's more than I would have thought -- I'm assuming the Mets are paying his salary, at least. Hell, the Sox got far less for Durham, who was having a great season, than they're giving the Mets for Alomar, who's having a lousy season.

Nonetheless, I don't think Almonte is ever going to be a MLB pitcher. Don't know about Ring - he's been fantastic this year, but I've never heard reports suggesting that he has electric stuff or is a anything close to a sure thing. At the very least, the Sox will get an extra draft pick as compensation for Alomar's imminent departure via free agency.

I think it is a relatively low risk move, but I'm not too optimistic that Alomar will be any better than Jimenez has been.

TheRockinMT
07-01-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
We didn't give up anything, decent trade.


If we gave up Ring we may have given up someone with a big league future. I am not convinced this is good for the Sox.

Randar68
07-01-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
We didn't give up anything, decent trade.

What? Ring was a real prospect. I know he was a college closer, and Billy Beane thinks it is foolish, but this has gone far enough. Ring was a very good prospect and he throws with his left hand. enough said.

soxruleEP
07-01-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


I think it is a relatively low risk move, but I'm not too optimistic that Alomar will be any better than Jimenez has been.

I agree except that Alomar will not make the bonehead mental errors that Jimenz will make.

Dadawg_77
07-01-2003, 01:42 PM
If you think Robby will perform better then what he has done in NYC, then you trade a relief pitcher for him. Ring would have only been a RP and average RPs are a dime a dozen, 2B aren't.

FJA
07-01-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
If we gave up Ring we may have given up someone with a big league future. I am not convinced this is good for the Sox.

I think we have to give Alomar the benefit of the doubt. Everyone is saying that the big problem with Alomar is that he absolutely hates being in the Mets organization. If that's true and he plays like he's capable of, we just got one of the best 2B ever to play the game. If not, it's a gamble that doesn't pay off.

Either way, I like that Kenny is making a statement. This team is within striking distance, and it's making the first move of what will be a busy July. A proactive White Sox. I like that A LOT.

boog_alou
07-01-2003, 01:43 PM
Sox gave up one very good prospect, and one ok prospect for a defensive upgrade at 2B. Does that seem like a smart trade for the Sox?

On offense, Alomar has been worse than Jiminez this year and last year as well. Unless Alomar has a magical transformation into his old self, the Sox just made themselves worse (and gave up prospects to boot).

mandmandm
07-01-2003, 01:46 PM
What are Harris's and Jimenez's options?
Is it time to dump Rios?
Kelly also will be coming back soon?
Sanders sent down for more work?

valposoxfan
07-01-2003, 01:47 PM
I am intrigued by this trade for the sole reason that there are so many question marks. It is exciting that KW is doing something to try and help out the offense and defense. We did give up some promising prospects, Ring being the one that hurts the most. But when you are in contention you have to do something to put you over that final hump and really get you rolling. There are still more deals to be made too. We didnt give up Cotts or anyone like that. I like this deal better than I would have liked a Weaver deal with the Yanks. Almonte and Ring wouldn't have made an impact this year anyways. We have to think about the present right now. I'm still confident in the farm system. These are two big losses but we still have good quality players on the farm.

B. Diddy
07-01-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
That's more than I would have thought -- I'm assuming the Mets are paying his salary, at least. Hell, the Sox got far less for Durham, who was having a great season, than they're giving the Mets for Alomar, who's having a lousy season.


Or one can look at it this way:

(a) We could have Durham and not enough money left over to pay Bartolo Colon

(b) We could have both Colon and Alomar for approximately the same price as choice (a)

I like the latter option.

balboner
07-01-2003, 01:49 PM
The defensive upgrade of Alomar over Jimenez is the key to this deal in my opinion. Who would you rather have a ball hit to in a late inning game in September, Jimenez or Alomar? Also, Ring is a good prospect, but we have strength in numbers w/lefties in our organization.

Tragg
07-01-2003, 01:51 PM
We gave up more than we got for Durham, that's for damn sure. A lot more. And for what - an aging jerk like Alomar?

If you trade prospects, get a decent ballplayer.

Let's reunite the Alomars - oh, boy, what a hoot. Sandy's been so productive himself.

Wasn't ring our First round draft choice last year?

kermittheefrog
07-01-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
What? Ring was a real prospect. I know he was a college closer, and Billy Beane thinks it is foolish, but this has gone far enough. Ring was a very good prospect and he throws with his left hand. enough said.

Relief pitchers are easy to find. Even if Royce Ring is a good relief pitcher someday in the majors all it takes is to trade away the next Matt Guerrier to get a reliever who'd be just as good.

voodoochile
07-01-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
What? Ring was a real prospect. I know he was a college closer, and Billy Beane thinks it is foolish, but this has gone far enough. Ring was a very good prospect and he throws with his left hand. enough said.

Yes, but it immediately improves the team for the cost of NO ONE who is currently on the squad. In addition, since the Mets are paying Robbie's salary, it leaves all the money the Sox had available to acquire another player too.

Don't tell me about future potential, tell me about how this improves the team this year. It does. 'Nuff said.

How about Jimenez as the DH?

34 Inch Stick
07-01-2003, 02:05 PM
Jimenez should be sent to the Astros for a prospect.

Chisox353014
07-01-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
How about Jimenez as the DH?

If it means me not having to sit through 4 more Armando Rios at-bats, then I'm all for it!

spanishwhite
07-01-2003, 02:10 PM
It reminds me of the Lofton for Diaz and Meaux trade of
last year.

ssang
07-01-2003, 02:15 PM
C'mon guys. This trade is WELL worth it! So what? We trade Royce Ring, who is a good prospect, but the Sox want to win now. Stop complaining. You haters are ridiculous. What did you expect?.....a headline that reads "METS GIVE ALOMAR TO WHITE SOX FOR NOTHING!!!" First off, Alomar will hit better with the change of scenery. Plus he's a huge upgrade defensively (we need that badly), he is a HUGE upgrade on the basepaths, he is a great bunter, And he is a winner and has plenty of post season experience. And Finally, he is re-united with his bro, Sandy!!!! What's not to like? So the trade is EXCELLENT, if you ask me. Stop hating.

Konerkoholic
07-01-2003, 02:17 PM
The perfect post, ssang. Stop whining about the future and take a ****ing chance!

gosox41
07-01-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by clarkent
There it is-- we gave up alot.

What does everyone think about the third guy the Sox gave up, Andrew Salvo?

Bob

gosox41
07-01-2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by B. Diddy
Or one can look at it this way:

(a) We could have Durham and not enough money left over to pay Bartolo Colon

(b) We could have both Colon and Alomar for approximately the same price as choice (a)

I like the latter option.

or a third option

C. When faced with the choice of signing the second best offensive second baseman in the league for $6 mill per year or signing your offensively average (and easily replaceable) first basemen for $ 8 mill. a year, what do you do?

Bob

thecell
07-01-2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
What does everyone think about the third guy the Sox gave up, Andrew Salvo?

Bob

schmuck

Gumshoe
07-01-2003, 02:29 PM
I'm not saying I like the deal, but in my mind, although he is old right now, Roberto Alomar is the best second baseman of all time. Better than Joe Morgan, better than Sandberg, better than anyone. I can't stand KW some I'm skeptical, I know RR and EA are really solid, I know RR was a 1st round pick.

I also know that Jimenez was a really good upcoming player, regardless of overrated "errors" many WSI people claimed he made. Maybe a change of scenery helps? We get a draft pick at least, and I hope Jimenez is back next year regardless, or he helps a lot this year. Hey, Alomar is clutch in the postseason.

My final line is this: If we don't get to the ALCS, this trade was very bad.

I hope JM is smart and keeps Rowand in CF, and puts Rios in a shoebox and sticks him underneath the bench. Let Willie play once every 10 days, and Jimenez play more often

Gumshoe

MisterB
07-01-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
What does everyone think about the third guy the Sox gave up, Andrew Salvo?

Bob

A backup 2b/3b in low-A ball hitting .230-something. Easily replaceable with one of the gaggle of middle infielders we just drafted.

Konerkoholic
07-01-2003, 02:34 PM
The headline on mlb.com: Mets get prospects for Alomar.

hold2dibber
07-01-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
My final line is this: If we don't get to the ALCS, this trade was very bad.

The only way this trade could be bad is if one of the guys we gave up turns out to be a productive major leaguer. IMHO, Ring is the only one of the 3 we lost with a chance for that to happen. And although I do think Ring may turn out to be a good major league reliever, I don't think he's every going to be a great major league reliever. And it is certainly possible that he'll never make it at all.

Mammoo
07-01-2003, 02:43 PM
Good Trade!

Gotta tighten up the defense if you want to play into October. Also, I think Alomar still has something left in the bat.

Kudos to Williams for trying to make his team better! :gulp:

CHISOXFAN13
07-01-2003, 02:45 PM
I'm 27 and we've won exactly zero world championships, zero pennants and three division titles in that span. I'm tired of waiting for the future. Screw the future.

ilsox7
07-01-2003, 02:47 PM
I also know that Jimenez was a really good upcoming player, regardless of overrated "errors" many WSI people claimed he made. Maybe a change of scenery helps? We get a draft pick at least, and I hope Jimenez is back next year regardless, or he helps a lot this year.

No offense, but how are these errors overrated. There have been numerous boneheaded plays by DJ that have cost the Sox dearly this year. I'd maybe let it slide if he didn't have the same reputation the last 2 teams he's been on. The bottom line is that DJ lacks fundamentals, and Alomar in fundamentally sound. It'll be nice to know who is going to play 2nd base every day for the remainder of the season.

ButtCheeseBubba
07-01-2003, 04:36 PM
This will go down in history as the WORST trade ever in Chicago professional baseball. Even worse than Brock for Broglio back in 1964. Royce Ring is a stud left-handed power closer. He was touted as being "on a fast track to the major leagues" by the Sox scouting director upon being selected in the 1st round 13 short months ago. In return, Williams lands a washed-up, loogie spitting dude who will probably be a major disappointment during his 3 short months on the South Side ...

ilsox7
07-01-2003, 04:42 PM
This will go down in history as the WORST trade ever in Chicago professional baseball. Even worse than Brock for Broglio back in 1964. Royce Ring is a stud left-handed power closer. He was touted as being "on a fast track to the major leagues" by the Sox scouting director upon being selected in the 1st round 13 short months ago. In return, Williams lands a washed-up, loogie spitting dude who will probably be a major disappointment during his 3 short months on the South Side ...

And how many relievers are in the hall of fame? If you've followed the Sox for the last decade, you know the percentages of our minor league studs being major league studs is. Remember Scott Ruffcorn? Oh yea, Marte and Wunsch are pretty darn good left-handed relievers, too. Would it be nice to have a left-handed reliever in 2 years? Sure. Is there a risk in trading Ring away? I guess. But you don't win anything by sitting back and watching the world pass by. And in this case, losing Ring isn't much of a risk at all.

Randar68
07-01-2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by ButtCheeseBubba
This will go down in history as the WORST trade ever in Chicago professional baseball. Even worse than Brock for Broglio back in 1964. Royce Ring is a stud left-handed power closer. He was touted as being "on a fast track to the major leagues" by the Sox scouting director upon being selected in the 1st round 13 short months ago. In return, Williams lands a washed-up, loogie spitting dude who will probably be a major disappointment during his 3 short months on the South Side ...


Exaggeration of the year award.

gosox41
07-01-2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by ButtCheeseBubba
This will go down in history as the WORST trade ever in Chicago professional baseball. Even worse than Brock for Broglio back in 1964. Royce Ring is a stud left-handed power closer. He was touted as being "on a fast track to the major leagues" by the Sox scouting director upon being selected in the 1st round 13 short months ago. In return, Williams lands a washed-up, loogie spitting dude who will probably be a major disappointment during his 3 short months on the South Side ...

Closers are overrated to begin with.

Also, keep in mind that most major league relievers are guys who for whatever reason weren't very good starters.

I'm not saying Ring won't be good, but I don't think he's Dennis Eckersley.


Bob

lowesox
07-01-2003, 05:31 PM
As long as Manuel doesn't make Jimenez the everyday third baseman this is a good trade. I could care less about giving up Ring. Alomar will hit much better in the AL. Especially playing on the same team as Sandy.

Good work Kenny.