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View Full Version : Espn Radio reports Alomar has been traded to Sox


chosk8
07-01-2003, 01:13 PM
Espn radio has reported that Alomar has been traded to Sox -- details to follow.

clarkent
07-01-2003, 01:13 PM
No details yet.

WillieHarris12
07-01-2003, 01:15 PM
YESSS!!!!

kevingrt
07-01-2003, 01:16 PM
Get here tonight, I wanna see you live in person Robbie!

DrCrawdad
07-01-2003, 01:17 PM
I hope that the Roberto Alomar that shows up is the one who played previously with the Indians and not the one who's been playing with the Mets.

One other thing, I hope this doesn't turn out to be like the Steve Sax deal.

Rocklive99
07-01-2003, 01:17 PM
A Mets fan from NY who is a friend of mine just told me online :) Like you guys said, no specifics yet

kevingrt
07-01-2003, 01:19 PM
Robbie Alomar for prospects all I know so far

JasonC23
07-01-2003, 01:19 PM
...another old, used-to-be-great, overrated, "proven veteran" acquired by Kenny Williams. What were the odds?? :(:

I hope he magically get his bat and fielding range back, like people have said he will once he's out of the mean ol' NL and back in the nice comfy AL, but I have my doubts.

Kenny Williams sucks. :angry:

(And yes, for everyone reading this, I really hope I'm wrong and the Alomar we get is [or is close to] the vintage 1999-2001 Alomar we saw on the Indians. I just doubt that's the case.)

JRIG
07-01-2003, 01:21 PM
ESPN 1000's Bruce Levine says the Sox give up Edwin Almonte, Royce Ring, and Andrew Salvo.

The Mets also apparently pick up all of Alomar's salary this year.

kevingrt
07-01-2003, 01:21 PM
Right on the front page of ESPN.com...

We still have Neal Cotts but our future closer is gone... oh no! I LUVE THE TRADE

WinningUgly!
07-01-2003, 01:23 PM
I like the deal (depending on whoe the prospects are). Having Alomar at 2b everyday & Jimenez in the utility role, where he belongs, is a good thing.
Way to go KW! :)

Randar68
07-01-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
ESPN 1000's Bruce Levine says the Sox give up Edwin Almonte, Royce Ring, and Andrew Salvo.

The Mets also apparently pick up all of Alomar's salary this year.

One of, or all 3? Ouch. There goes that lefty bullpen help for the near future...

hold2dibber
07-01-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
...another old, used-to-be-great, overrated, "proven veteran" acquired by Kenny Williams. What were the odds?? :(:

I hope he magically get his bat and fielding range back, like people have said he will once he's out of the mean ol' NL and back in the nice comfy AL, but I have my doubts.

Kenny Williams sucks. :angry:

(And yes, for everyone reading this, I really hope I'm wrong and the Alomar we get is [or is close to] the vintage 1999-2001 Alomar we saw on the Indians. I just doubt that's the case.)

Sheesh - you don't even know who they traded to get him and you're already slamming the deal? Alomar certainly wouldn't have been my first choice (Castillo would have been), but rumors abound that the key with Alomar is making him happy and motivated. He will now be playing on a team only a few games out of first and will be playing with his brother. Assuming that the Sox didn't give up any serious prospects, it's a pretty low risk proposition with some serious upside of Alomar plays anywhere near his '01 (and prior) level. I don't see why anyone would slam KW for this trade (unless he gave up Cotts or Reed or Honel or someone like that).

koch44
07-01-2003, 01:25 PM
http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/4189.jpg

"Finally, I'm back in the american league, where I can hit."

1951Campbell
07-01-2003, 01:26 PM
But I wanted Ponson!

A.T. Money
07-01-2003, 01:26 PM
Right on!

kevingrt
07-01-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by koch44
http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/4189.jpg

"Finally, I'm back in the american league, where I can hit."

1 or 2 hole anywhere I DONT CARE, HIT!

FJA
07-01-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by koch44
http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/4189.jpg

"Finally, I'm back in the american league, where I can hit."

That's how I'm looking at it now. I really think a change of scenary is going to do Robbie well. He very obviously hated being on the Mets, and he was too good before he went there not to give him the benefit of the doubt.

kevingrt
07-01-2003, 01:28 PM
ESPN.com Article (http://msn.espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0701/1575307.html)

Here's an article

Randar68
07-01-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by FJA
That's how I'm looking at it now. I really think a change of scenary is going to do Robbie well. He very obviously hated being on the Mets, and he was too good before he went there not to give him the benefit of the doubt.

He's only 35, and I think it was really a question of motivation with him. There was no real injury to cause him to slump off so badly, it was just being in NY and hitting in that pitcher's park...

Randar68
07-01-2003, 01:30 PM
Anyone know the details of Alomar's contract status?

kevingrt
07-01-2003, 01:31 PM
"The Mets will eat the $3.9 million left on his contract this year, the New York Daily News reports."

From ESPN.com article... the entire salary

Dadawg_77
07-01-2003, 01:32 PM
FA at the end of the year I think, but the biggest positive of this all is before the Sox played the Cubs, they were saw as sellers on the market. Now we just go out and acquired talent, no white flag. That is a good thing.

Hangar18
07-01-2003, 01:33 PM
Isnt it Funny how if we had just KEPT RAY DURHAM, we probably
arent making this trade, and we keep 2 very good minor leaguers.
I dont like this trade. The Mets love anything AL associated (the farm system NY sucks)

JRIG
07-01-2003, 01:34 PM
Alomar's a free agent after this year. The Mets will pay all of his salary for the rest of the year. That's huge.

If the Sox were going to use Almonte, they would have done it already. I don't think he was in their plans. Plus, he had a 6.88 this year at AAA. Ring's the big guy in the deal.

MarkEdward
07-01-2003, 01:36 PM
I don't really like this. First, I don't like giving up Royce Ring. He was probably our top relief prospect. Salvo and Almonte aren't much, although Almonte may make a major league squad sometime in his career.

Second, Alomar has been worse than Jimenez this year! Both get on base at about the same rate, but Jimenez has more power and has a slight edge in defense. I'd much rather have Jimenez, or even Castillo for that matter.

Koch, Ritchie, Clayton, Alomar... Kenny, when will you learn?

TheRockinMT
07-01-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Isnt it Funny how if we had just KEPT RAY DURHAM, we probably
arent making this trade, and we keep 2 very good minor leaguers.
I dont like this trade. The Mets love anything AL associated (the farm system NY sucks)

This trade will probably be a half year only one for the Sox so who we give up is important. I have seen a few posts naming up to three prospects, which I think is not a good deal for us especially if Ring is included as has been intimated in other threads.

Iguana775
07-01-2003, 01:37 PM
WE FINALLY GOT A GOOD DEFENSIVE 2B!!! WOO HOO!!!

:bandance:

Iguana775
07-01-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I don't really like this. First, I don't like giving up Royce Ring. He was probably our top relief prospect. Salvo and Almonte aren't much, although Almonte may make a major league squad sometime in his career.

Second, Alomar has been worse than Jimenez this year! Both get on base at about the same rate, but Jimenez has more power and has a slight edge in defense. I'd much rather have Jimenez, or even Castillo for that matter.

Koch, Ritchie, Clayton, Alomar... Kenny, when will you learn?

DJ is a complete moron on the bases and really hasnt done crap lately.

Jerko
07-01-2003, 01:38 PM
If he is still on the team next year, you know when we go to Wrigley we will see nothing but signs making fun of the Spitter. Oh wait, every male Cub fan at one point was probably a spitter too, so maybe not.

B. Diddy
07-01-2003, 01:38 PM
They didn't say who the prospects were, but I don't care right now. If we don't win this year, it's rebuilding time again and I'm tired of that ****. I'll take my chances with Robbie to win right now!

Good move, KW. :cool:

MarkEdward
07-01-2003, 01:40 PM
By the way, two good things happen with this trade:
1. Aaron Miles has no chance of getting called up, and
2. Willie Harris may get sent down.

JasonC23
07-01-2003, 01:40 PM
1. So, Alomar only plays well when he's motivated? Wow, what a great attitude to add to this team.

2. The Big Reason: D'Angelo Jimenez, as I have pointed out elsewhere on this board, is outhitting Alomar this year. Instead of strengthening the Sox lineup, this weakens it or (at best) keeps it the same.

3. Alomar won't be resigned (remember who owns the team), so who plays 2B next year? Not Jimenez, apparently, so Harris? Miles? Ugh to both.

4. I'm in a cranky mood and this didn't help. :cool:

Seriously, though, I hope everyone who is excited is right, and I hope Alomar plays like Kenny Lofton did in April last year. I'm just fairly certain he'll play more like Kenny Lofton did from May on last year (with the attitude to match). Plus, this proves yet again that Kenny Williams values amount of years played in the big leagues, name recognition, and past accomplishments (no matter how distant) over, you know, talent and stuff.

I'll stop posting because I fear I'm turning into Lip. :cool: Just try not to think this is the move that puts the Sox over the top, and you'll stay sane. :smile:

Randar68
07-01-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
By the way, two good things happen with this trade:
1. Aaron Miles has no chance of getting called up, and
2. Willie Harris may get sent down.

3. They better trade Jimenez for CF help! Jimenez for Pierre straight up?

raul12
07-01-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Alomar's a free agent after this year. The Mets will pay all of his salary for the rest of the year. That's huge.

If the Sox were going to use Almonte, they would have done it already. I don't think he was in their plans. Plus, he had a 6.88 this year at AAA. Ring's the big guy in the deal.

What were Ring's numbers in the minors? A possible reasoning for dealing Ring might be that we seem to have an ability to have closers in the rough (see Biddle).

I think I like this deal, but it would have been nice to have Castillo. What are our chances of signing Robbie, if he plays well, seeing as we have his over-the-hill brother on the team? We're still 2 games under 500, but we're definitely moving in the right direction. I'm just glad that we've put off "re-building" for the time being. I hate re-building...it's for losers.

btw, what's the tag for the dancing banana--that thing's hilarious.

Chisox353014
07-01-2003, 01:42 PM
Wow, the Sox sure have a knack for picking up former Indians (Belle, Cordero, Lofton, Sandy) who I absolutely couldn't stand before.
At least we know we've improved at 2nd base as far as baserunning, bunting and defense is concerned. If Alomar can hit the way he did a couple years ago this could be a solid trade. At least it shows we're trying to get better instead of packing it in. Now if Kenny can find a way to bring in Juan Pierre I'll be even happier.

Iguana775
07-01-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
3. They better trade Jimenez for CF help! Jimenez for Pierre straight up?

I'd do DJ and rauch.

maurice
07-01-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
"The Mets will eat the $3.9 million left on his contract this year, the New York Daily News reports." From ESPN.com article... the entire salary

This explains why KW was willing to give up Ring for a declining, rent-a-player. Almonte and Salvo have little trade value. With Alomar starting (and batting #1, I suppose), D'Ang and Harris join Graffy on the bench, and we now officially lead the league in backup second basemen.

I hope we're still in the market for another bat. How about renting Juan Gonzalez to bat #5 and DH the rest of the season? Then we'd definitely lead the league in former Indians and Puerto Ricans.

Here's hoping that a return to the AL Central and a dancing banana can revitalize Robbie for a second half run.

:bandance:

Dadawg_77
07-01-2003, 01:44 PM
If the Sox lose Robbie in FA this off season, they will pick up two extra draft picks. Which should be good enough to replace what we gave up for him.

thecell
07-01-2003, 01:45 PM
First, I don't like giving up Royce Ring. He was probably our top relief prospect.

Relief prospect? That's BS. You don't draft relievers. KW wasted a pick on drafting a closer. You can plug almost any pitcher into a relief job and he will more than likely succeed. I'm glad the Sox traded unproven talent to upgrade this team.

Randar68
07-01-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
If the Sox lose Robbie in FA this off season, they will pick up two extra draft picks. Which should be good enough to replace what we gave up for him.

Unless they remove that compensation plan as they had talked about last collective bargaining time. The plan fell through at the last minute and draft reform is still in the works.

It wouldn't be the first time KW misread the situation (traded Durham because he thought he wouldn't get draft picks for him). He took that risk and lost. Hopefully, they don't lose this one.

MarkEdward
07-01-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by thecell
Relief prospect? That's BS. You don't draft relievers. KW wasted a pick on drafting a closer. You can plug almost any pitcher into a relief job and he will more than likely succeed. I'm glad the Sox traded unproven talent to upgrade this team.

Considering we have no pitching prospects in AA or AAA (aside from Cotts), Ring was very vital to the farm system. I'm not high on relief prospects, but considering our farm system, any pitcher with a K/IP above one is valuable. Oh well, at least we didn't give up one of our hitters, like Reed or Webster.

And we didn't upgrade this team! At best, we stayed the same.

hold2dibber
07-01-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
3. They better trade Jimenez for CF help! Jimenez for Pierre straight up?

That's perfect -- would seem to make perfect sense, since the Marlins are likely to be dealing Castillo and will need a new 2B next year.

WillieHarris12
07-01-2003, 01:53 PM
Jimenez for Pierre! Sure I'd do it. But I doubt the Marlins would...

hold2dibber
07-01-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Isnt it Funny how if we had just KEPT RAY DURHAM, we probably
arent making this trade, and we keep 2 very good minor leaguers.
I dont like this trade. The Mets love anything AL associated (the farm system NY sucks)

If the Sox had re-signed Durham, they almost certainly would not have had the $ to be able to afford Colon.

And "very good minor leaguers" ain't doing a thing to help the Sox win a very winnable AL Central this year. I have my doubts about Alomar, but I think this was a pretty low risk move, with the posssibility of a serious upside if Alomar can get his groove back. It's also a good statement to the team and to the fans that the Sox want to win now. Also, because the Sox aren't adding any payroll in this deal, they may still be able to make other moves (i.e., pick up another stick).

MarkEdward
07-01-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
That's perfect -- would seem to make perfect sense, since the Marlins are likely to be dealing Castillo and will need a new 2B next year.

Then who plays second base for us next year (assuming Alomar isn't re-signed)? Graffanino? Hummel?

Konerkoholic
07-01-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber

And "very good minor leaguers" ain't doing a thing to help the Sox win a very winnable AL Central this year.
Very well said. The fact is, the Sox improved their team. This is the kind of move the Yankees make all the time in order to improve their ballclub. I think the Sox will win the AL Central, but that is not good enough. Alomar is a professional hitter and fielder who should really help us come playoff time. KW maybe gave up too much, but I still like the move because it makes the Sox stronger right now.

JRIG
07-01-2003, 01:58 PM
Is this an upgrade merely because Jerry won't be tempted to play Harris at 2B anymore? Getting him out of the lineup has to help. Given that Rowand has hit so well since coming back I would hope he would play the majority of CF over Willie.

:jerry

"I don't know. I've been thinking about moving Robbie to 3B. Gotta have those versatile players!"

raul12
07-01-2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Then who plays second base for us next year (assuming Alomar isn't re-signed)? Graffanino? Hummel?

It seems from your sig, that you'd love to have Miles at 2B!

I'm sure the Sox management will deal with that issue in an appropriate manner.

FJA
07-01-2003, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by WillieHarris12
Jimenez for Pierre! Sure I'd do it. But I doubt the Marlins would...

If they're looking to move both Castillo and Pierre, they might ... it would give them a Castillo replacement.

Juan Pizarro
07-01-2003, 02:00 PM
It's a good move even if it only signals to the club that the front office believes in it.

Good timing, too, with Cleveland coming up on the schedule. I have a feeling Robby will feel the juice. Well, we can always hope.

Foster a positive milieu!

Hangar18
07-01-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
If the Sox lose Robbie in FA this off season, they will pick up two extra draft picks. Which should be good enough to replace what we gave up for him.

hmmmmmm, this is a good point. This isnt so bad after all.....

JasonC23
07-01-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic
The fact is, the Sox improved their team.

Actually, the fact is, the Sox made their team a little worse or, at best, kept it the same. They did not upgrade.

For those who missed it, here are Jimenez's and Alomar's values from Baseball Prospectus...

EQA
Jimenez: .259
Alomar .257

RARP
Jimenez: 7.7
Alomar: 6.5

OK, I promise, I'm done being negative now. Go Sox! :smile:

Irishsox1
07-01-2003, 02:04 PM
Another "shocking" trade from "Check out the big brain on Kenny". I just hope the Robbie of old shows up for the playoff push. I've got a feeling that playing for a contender, plus playing with his brother will help. I have to admit, when I saw this trade, I hocked a huge lugie on the computer screen!...In honor of Robbie of course!!

Konerkoholic
07-01-2003, 02:06 PM
Jimenez' only upside seems to be that he's hitting .260. Big deal. He costs this team games. He's horrible defensively, and an absolute dumbass on the bases. That double play ball he barehanded and dropped in the Cubs series is all you need to look at. I don't want to see Jimenez anymore.

kermittheefrog
07-01-2003, 02:07 PM
I like this deal for a few reasons.

1. I don't consider losing Ring or Alomte to be a big deal. Ring was the best player lost in the deal and as you can see with Kelly Wunsch and Damaso Marte it doesn't take a first round pick to net a good lefty reliever.

2. Willie Harris might get sent back to the minors.

3. It opens the door to use Alomar at second and Jimenez at third.

4. It says the Sox aren't giving up.

5. We don't have to pay Alomar's salary.

6. There is a chance, albeit a slight one, that Alomar still has some of that hall of fame type production left. Unlike some people I don't think the guy lacks motivation. A lot of great players produce on bad teams and becoming an inner circle hall of famer and reaching milestones like 3000 hits is pretty good motivation. However I think Alomar has a better shot at posting a .320 EqA over the next half season than Jimenez or Crede does.

dougs78
07-01-2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
If the Sox lose Robbie in FA this off season, they will pick up two extra draft picks. Which should be good enough to replace what we gave up for him.

Exactly right. If anything we'll get a better 1st rounder than Ring and also get a sandwich pick that has a chance to be better than either Almonte or Salvo.

Originally posted by hold2dibber
And "very good minor leaguers" ain't doing a thing to help the Sox win a very winnable AL Central this year. I have my doubts about Alomar, but I think this was a pretty low risk move, with the posssibility of a serious upside if Alomar can get his groove back. It's also a good statement to the team and to the fans that the Sox want to win now. Also, because the Sox aren't adding any payroll in this deal, they may still be able to make other moves (i.e., pick up another stick).


Also exactly right. For those of you that missed the bulletin, we are actually trying to win it THIS YEAR! That means its ok to trade away prospects to better the major league club. As said, above, we may actually come out better on prospects by the time next years draft rolls around, so wait and see before saying we gave up too much.

Second of all, this whole Royce Ring pick finally makes complete sense to me. Kenny drafted a very major league ready commodity and then proceeded to trade it away very soon. Ring did not have the highest upside, but he had a very major league readiness. This is precisely what the Yankees do all the time. They draft guys who they know will have trade value sooner, rather than later; guys who may not have the highest ceiling, but also have a HIGH FLOOR. This is a great move by KW. I can't find a fault with it. Its low-risk (ie, we dont' lose too much), but the reward of Alomar even regainig some of his 2001 form is too much to pass up. Regardless of whether DJ outhits Alomar by .010, the point is Robbie is an absolute vaccuum at 2nd base. He immediately becomes our BEST fielder. That point should not be lost in this discussion.

I for one am extremely pumped about this trade.

Randar68
07-01-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
3. It opens the door to use Alomar at second and Jimenez at third.



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kermittheefrog
07-01-2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
Actually, the fact is, the Sox made their team a little worse or, at best, kept it the same. They did not upgrade.

For those who missed it, here are Jimenez's and Alomar's values from Baseball Prospectus...

EQA
Jimenez: .259
Alomar .257

RARP
Jimenez: 7.7
Alomar: 6.5

OK, I promise, I'm done being negative now. Go Sox! :smile:

Alomar came into the season with a much higher projected EqA than Jimenez. A half season of data isn't THAT meaningful. If Alomar finishes the season fulfilling his projected .275 EqA we made a good trade. Plus we can use Jimenez at third.

sox_fan_forever
07-01-2003, 02:09 PM
I like this trade. I really think that being back in the AL with his brother, etc and playing for a contending team will do Robbie a world of good. I have never really been a fan of his, but I'll be rooting for him now. As for those of you wondering about who will play second base next year...I really care could less right now about next year. I am so sick of "next year." I want to know about THIS year.

gosox41
07-01-2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Sheesh - you don't even know who they traded to get him and you're already slamming the deal? Alomar certainly wouldn't have been my first choice (Castillo would have been), but rumors abound that the key with Alomar is making him happy and motivated. He will now be playing on a team only a few games out of first and will be playing with his brother. Assuming that the Sox didn't give up any serious prospects, it's a pretty low risk proposition with some serious upside of Alomar plays anywhere near his '01 (and prior) level. I don't see why anyone would slam KW for this trade (unless he gave up Cotts or Reed or Honel or someone like that).

I need to research the minor league players we gave up before forming an opinion, but Castillo was my first choice.

Does it concern anyone that people say is Alomar is a head case who needs to be happy and motivated to play hard??

Also, does anyone think his last season and a half was due to lack of motivation or age catching up to him?

Bob

WillieHarris12
07-01-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Is this an upgrade merely because Jerry won't be tempted to play Harris at 2B anymore? Getting him out of the lineup has to help. Given that Rowand has hit so well since coming back I would hope he would play the majority of CF over Willie.

:jerry

"I don't know. I've been thinking about moving Robbie to 3B. Gotta have those versatile players!"

Manuel looks like Steve Erkel from family matters in that photo.

FarmerAndy
07-01-2003, 02:11 PM
Has anybody even heard anything about Florida wanting to deal Pierre??? I'm not sure what his contract status is, but I think he's only 24 years old. Florida may be on the sellers market, but that doesn't mean everybody is for sale. I can't imagine they would want to get rid of young non-expensive talent. They should be trying to shop Pudge.

Konerkoholic
07-01-2003, 02:11 PM
Please do not say we can play Jimenez at third! He will be way worse than Valentin there, plus Joe Crede is really heating up! Jimenez should get the benching he deserves.

kermittheefrog
07-01-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Also, does anyone think his last season and a half was due to lack of motivation or age catching up to him?


Age. The hall of fame, 3000 hits, stuff like that motivates people. Plus he thought he was on a good team at the beginning of each season.

Nonetheless I think Alomar might have something left.

duke of dorwood
07-01-2003, 02:12 PM
This is a Good Move-closers Are made. Was Rocky the closer of the future last year? Thats my point.

:rocked

I had no future

gosox41
07-01-2003, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Then who plays second base for us next year (assuming Alomar isn't re-signed)? Graffanino? Hummel?

I assume Jimenez and Hummel would duke it out for that spot.

Bob

kermittheefrog
07-01-2003, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic
Please do not say we can play Jimenez at third! He will be way worse than Valentin there, plus Joe Crede is really heating up! Jimenez should get the benching he deserves.

Well Crede had a 575 OPS in April, a 602 OPS in May and now a 666 OPS in June. I guess you could call that heating up if you consider starting to hit a little better than Rey Ordonez heating up.

Randar68
07-01-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
Has anybody even heard anything about Florida wanting to deal Pierre??? I'm not sure what his contract status is, but I think he's only 24 years old. Florida may be on the sellers market, but that doesn't mean everybody is for sale. I can't imagine they would want to get rid of young non-expensive talent. They should be trying to shop Pudge.

Gammons mentioned it on radio yesterday. Pierre is arbitration eligible after this season IIRC. They want to free up money for Lowell, and they can't afford to go to arbitration with several players in the offseason. Plus, he has trade value.

hold2dibber
07-01-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Then who plays second base for us next year (assuming Alomar isn't re-signed)? Graffanino? Hummel?

They'd have to go out and get a 2B in the offseason. But they would no longer be in need of a CF, as Pierre is signed through '05 at a reasonable rate. Pierre would give the Sox an added dimension - speed. He gets on base at a decent (.350) clip, steals bases at a very high success rate, and is a better defensive CF than anyone we have at or near the MLB level. Plus, the Sox are in a very winnable division -- I'll worry about next year next year. Pierre would improve this team now, and Jimenez clearly is the odd man out after the Alomar acquisition. Jimenez is a league average 2B (and a boneheaded one at that); I'm confident the Sox would be able to replace him.

Randar68
07-01-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Well Crede had a 575 OPS in April, a 602 OPS in May and now a 666 OPS in June. I guess you could call that heating up if you consider starting to hit a little better than Rey Ordonez heating up.

He plays defense. I want Jimenez gone. Did you not watch the game he played at third the other day? Crede has much better potential than Jimenez and it showed last year and periodically this year. Sophomore slump, he'll work through it. He has looked better at the plate recently.

hold2dibber
07-01-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Gammons mentioned it on radio yesterday. Pierre is arbitration eligible after this season IIRC. They want to free up money for Lowell, and they can't afford to go to arbitration with several players in the offseason. Plus, he has trade value.

According to this, (http://www.bluemanc.demon.co.uk/baseball/mlbcontracts.htm) Pierre is signed through '05.

JasonC23
07-01-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Nonetheless I think Alomar might have something left.

Kermit, I've respected your opinion on these boards for a while, now, so thank you for helping me to see the positive sides of this move. After reading your posts (especially the one pointing out how Alomar should be around a .275 EQA, which would make me very happy), I feel a little better about this. I still think it smacks of a typical "Hey, I know that guy! He used to be good!" Kenny Williams move and I really wish he would have traded for Castillo if he felt like 2B had to be upgraded (debatable), but I will try and be more positive about it from now on.

White Sox Interactive...it's like drive-through therapy. :smile:

Randar68
07-01-2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
According to this, (http://www.bluemanc.demon.co.uk/baseball/mlbcontracts.htm) Pierre is signed through '05.

None the less, that is a considerable salary jump. $5.7 million over the next 2 years plus incentives (he appears on pace to reach) is a lot of money that can go towards signing Lowell.

thecell
07-01-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I need to research the minor league players we gave up before forming an opinion, but Castillo was my first choice.

Does it concern anyone that people say is Alomar is a head case who needs to be happy and motivated to play hard??

Also, does anyone think his last season and a half was due to lack of motivation or age catching up to him?

Bob

Alomar has proven that he can play in the American league and has been very successful. Who knows how long it would take for Castillo to adjust to American league pitching. I like the move. You're adding a proven major leaguer with playoff experience who is only a year and half removed from batting .336 with a .956 OPS. Once again, I like the move.

MarkEdward
07-01-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I like this deal for a few reasons.

1. I don't consider losing Ring or Alomte to be a big deal. Ring was the best player lost in the deal and as you can see with Kelly Wunsch and Damaso Marte it doesn't take a first round pick to net a good lefty reliever.

That is what I do like about this trade. We didn't give up much. Although, unlike you, I think Ring will be much more than just an average LOOGY.

Replacement-level relievers aren't hard to find. Ace relievers, however, are not a dime a dozen.

2. Willie Harris might get sent back to the minors.

One can only hope...

3. It opens the door to use Alomar at second and Jimenez at third.

Manuel isn't that creative.

4. It says the Sox aren't giving up.

So? And if the Sox got Ugueth Urbina, it also would've showed that they "weren't giving up." What's yer point?

5. We don't have to pay Alomar's salary.

Yes, that is good...

6. There is a chance, albeit a slight one, that Alomar still has some of that hall of fame type production left.

I can't buy that. Alomar has now been playing at this level for 1 and 1/2 years, what makes you think that he'll suddenly turn it around? I just hope he doesn't completely fall from grace, like many players his age do.

This trade isn't that bad, but I would've liked to go after a center fielder instead.

NewyorkSoxFan
07-01-2003, 02:36 PM
Let me just say that Met fans think they got robbed!!! But what fan of any team ever thinks his team didn't pay too much? I watch Robby play alot b/c I am here and I have always been kind of a fan of his b/c he is a gifted fielder and is a clutch hitter.

That being said he is a bit of a head case, but he is a veteran leader and has already made an impact with the Mets young shortstop Reyes. And has willingly has been helping all the players they have brought up. I am excited and I think Sox fans will be as well.

NYSF

hold2dibber
07-01-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
I really wish he would have traded for Castillo if he felt like 2B had to be upgraded (debatable), but I will try and be more positive about it from now on.

My guess is that the Marlins want to dump Castillo's salary for the remainder of '03 and that the Sox are unwilling to pay that freight. They get Alomar without paying him one red cent; that's why he's here and not Castillo. I hold out some hope that that means KW may still have some money to spend, but who knows where JR stands on that issue.

AngelLeroy
07-01-2003, 02:59 PM
I was against this trade because of Alomar's age, not his offensive production the past two years. Now that I found out that we basically gave up little to nothing for him, (wow, a AAAA closer, some guy, and Royce Ring... we have 4 potential closers on the MLB roster anyway -- Koch, Marte, Gordon and Wright) don't have to pay him jack this year which frees up money for other moves, and also prevented a league rival (KC) from possibly getting him... I like this trade. Getting a TEN TIME GOLD GLOVE 2nd basemen who can at least hit as well as Jimenez, but can bunt, field and run is a good move. And who knows, maybe Alomar can teach Jimenez how to play. I've always viewed Jimenez as a potential Alomar Jr. anyway.

IronFisk
07-01-2003, 03:04 PM
Good move KW!

Bash him as you will, but at least he tries to win. Who the heck could've predicted the Wells & Richie collapses, or Koch's ineffectiveness (oka, maybe that - but I liked it based on Foulke's knack to choke). In the last 3 years, KW has provided us Sox fans with some of the boldest moves we have ever seen - maybe not the best - but boldest. He's a risk-taker, and that's what you need to win - it also opens you up to a whole bunch of crap from the fans when it doesn't pan out.

As for Alomar, all I can say is that playing with the Mets is a death sentence due to the crappy park, fans, and underachieving teammates. I really think he will thrive here with less pressure to produce. Overall, I am just happy to see the Sox "going for it". This has been KW's mantra from the start - there have been no signs from him of rebuilding since he's been here.

Or...just drink a few down and everything will look just fine!

:gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

kevingrt
07-01-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by IronFisk
Good move KW!

Bash him as you will, but at least he tries to win. Who the heck could've predicted the Wells & Richie collapses, or Koch's ineffectiveness (oka, maybe that - but I liked it based on Foulke's knack to choke). In the last 3 years, KW has provided us Sox fans with some of the boldest moves we have ever seen - maybe not the best - but boldest. He's a risk-taker, and that's what you need to win - it also opens you up to a whole bunch of crap from the fans when it doesn't pan out.

As for Alomar, all I can say is that playing with the Mets is a death sentence due to the crappy park, fans, and underachieving teammates. I really think he will thrive here with less pressure to produce. Overall, I am just happy to see the Sox "going for it". This has been KW's mantra from the start - there have been no signs from him of rebuilding since he's been here.

Or...just drink a few down and everything will look just fine!

:gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

I totally agree, KW seems to try his hardest, not all of his moves have worked, but I like the move and KW giving it his all.

Juan Pizarro
07-01-2003, 03:11 PM
Something else to consider:
How do you think Frank, Magglio, Lee, Buehrle, Colon, et. al., feel about this?
They've got to be excited. The team believes in them!

Lip Man 1
07-01-2003, 03:36 PM
Good points about the deal:

It shows the players, fans and the media (for all you conspiracy theorists) the club intends to stay in things this year.

Since the Sox aren't paying Alomar a dime it still allows Williams' (if Uncle Jerry lets him) to perhaps get some other players

If Alomar hits .275, catches the ball and doesn't look like a buffoon on the bases he's doing a hell of a lot more then Duh Angelo Jimenez.

Bad points about the deal:

I don't like 3-1 trades even if they are only minor league prospects. 2-1 is fine, 3-1 Hmmmm.....

Retort to my bad point:

Sox "can't miss kids," never seem to do great do they? (By the way where are all the fans longing for Josh Fogg and Kip Wells nowadays? Hmmmmm... on a better Pirate team then last year they seem to be doing worse.)

Overall it's not a bad move. Now go out and get a center fielder and maybe even a catcher and let's see what happens.

Worry about next year, next year. Time to get to the playoffs this season (and maybe even actually win a home postseason game!)

Lip

mandmandm
07-01-2003, 03:38 PM
Now do the Sox get Lofton from the Pirates to fill the need in center/lead off and begin the 97 Indians reunion tour?

Kilroy
07-01-2003, 03:59 PM
Maybe I'm alone, but if anyone goes to the minors, and KW said at the PC that there's going to be a roster move tomorrow when Alomar arrives, I hope its Jiminez. Willie Harris has speed, and the Sox need it. I miss when a guy could get on and steal second, or just beat the relay on a DP because he's fast. Remember April 2002 w/ Durham and Lofton?

DJ isn't the first option anywhere. At least Harris would be the first option to pinch run, and fair coming in behind Rowand.

THE_HOOTER
07-01-2003, 04:12 PM
Harris is the backup/platoon guy with rowand.

If it is not a pitcher, which doesnt make much sense, then its Jimenez.

I think Jimenez will be in a deal real soon-

Polack
07-01-2003, 04:18 PM
I can't get excited about giving up young pitchers to get a 35 year old malcontent who is underwhelming the National League at the moment. Since he's a free agent next year, and the Sox are so parsmonious, this reminds me of the Charles Johnson deal. It will only make sense if, (1) Alomar plays with resurgent enthusiasm, and (2) the Sox resign him next year. I would rather muck through this season with DJ and Harris trying to find maturity. If the Sox had been more patient with Mike Cameron after a regressive sophomore season we would not be playing a midget in center field. :?:

voodoochile
07-01-2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
Harris is the backup/platoon guy with rowand.

If it is not a pitcher, which doesnt make much sense, then its Jimenez.

I think Jimenez will be in a deal real soon-

Actually, I think this opens the door for Rios to get some playing time in CF. I'm not happy with him mouthing off, but he has a point. He has a been at least a semi-regular for his whole career. Now he doesn't play at all. I really hope Williams insists on sending Harris down. The kid just cannot hit. He is a waste of a roster slot now matter how fast he is...

JRIG
07-01-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Maybe I'm alone, but if anyone goes to the minors, and KW said at the PC that there's going to be a roster move tomorrow when Alomar arrives, I hope its Jiminez. Willie Harris has speed, and the Sox need it. I miss when a guy could get on and steal second, or just beat the relay on a DP because he's fast.

Of course, to steal second, you have to get on base first. Something that Willie Harris has shown absolutely no ability to do. Carrying a designated pinch runner is a waste of a roster spot. Jimenez can hit, can get on base, and he's not exactly slow.

jeremyb1
07-01-2003, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I like this deal for a few reasons.

1. I don't consider losing Ring or Alomte to be a big deal. Ring was the best player lost in the deal and as you can see with Kelly Wunsch and Damaso Marte it doesn't take a first round pick to net a good lefty reliever.

2. Willie Harris might get sent back to the minors.

3. It opens the door to use Alomar at second and Jimenez at third.

4. It says the Sox aren't giving up.

5. We don't have to pay Alomar's salary.

6. There is a chance, albeit a slight one, that Alomar still has some of that hall of fame type production left. Unlike some people I don't think the guy lacks motivation. A lot of great players produce on bad teams and becoming an inner circle hall of famer and reaching milestones like 3000 hits is pretty good motivation. However I think Alomar has a better shot at posting a .320 EqA over the next half season than Jimenez or Crede does.

all good points. my major concern is we traded a guy with the potential to be an elite reliever (our pen could use some work the last i noticed although we're in pretty good shape with lefties) for a player who isn't outproducing the incumbent second basement by much. hopefully our front office has collected information that leads them to believe alomar is still capable of producing more like he did in the al than he has the past two seasons. if we have decent reason to believe he can improve his production that may be worth dealing ring.

the problem i have is that while the deal would be more than worth it if it gets jimenez a lot of at bats over crede at 3B and harris is demoted, with some of the terrible decisions this organization has been making lately in terms of playing time i wouldn't be suprised to see jimenez go instead of harris and then watch harris eat into rowand's (1.147 ops in 32 at bats since returning from charlotte) playing time in center.

if the deal leaves us with alomar at second, jimenez getting at least half the at bats at third, rowand getting the playing time in center, and harris in charlotte it improves our team ten fold, i'm just skeptical that any of this will actually take place.

Randar68
07-01-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
jimenez getting at least half the at bats at third


Were you taking a nap all weekend? Get Jimenez packing.

Hullett_Fan
07-01-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
all good points. my major concern is we traded a guy with the potential to be an elite reliever (our pen could use some work the last i noticed although we're in pretty good shape with lefties) for a player who isn't outproducing the incumbent second basement by much. hopefully our front office has collected information that leads them to believe alomar is still capable of producing more like he did in the al than he has the past two seasons. if we have decent reason to believe he can improve his production that may be worth dealing ring.

the problem i have is that while the deal would be more than worth it if it gets jimenez a lot of at bats over crede at 3B and harris is demoted, with some of the terrible decisions this organization has been making lately in terms of playing time i wouldn't be suprised to see jimenez go instead of harris and then watch harris eat into rowand's (1.147 ops in 32 at bats since returning from charlotte) playing time in center.

if the deal leaves us with alomar at second, jimenez getting at least half the at bats at third, rowand getting the playing time in center, and harris in charlotte it improves our team ten fold, i'm just skeptical that any of this will actually take place.


I wouldn't be surprised to see Jimenez shipped out of town in the next deal (for a CF...just a matter of who).

Only Graffanino will be left to take ABs away from Crede

ilsox7
07-01-2003, 04:34 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Jimenez shipped out of town in the next deal (for a CF...just a matter of who).

Man I hope so. The good news with Dj is that he does enough offensively that we may actually get something decent in return for him. If watching him CONTINUOUSLY make mental errors, whether it be on defense or on the bases, plus hearing his own teammates rip him doesn't convince you he should be long gone, then nothing will.

vegyrex
07-01-2003, 04:39 PM
I hope, I hope, I hope Robbie still has something left in him.

34 Inch Stick
07-01-2003, 04:45 PM
One thing that I haven't heard mention about Alomar is that he is a switch hitter. This helps to solve another problem for us as he gives us another lefthanded hitter in the lineup.

mandmandm
07-01-2003, 04:48 PM
Can't he bunt? If so that is valuable. I have seen enough horrible bunt attempts this season to last a life time.

JRIG
07-01-2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
One thing that I haven't heard mention about Alomar is that he is a switch hitter. This helps to solve another problem for us as he gives us another lefthanded hitter in the lineup.


Of course, Alomar hasn't hit from the right hand side in over 2 years. His stats from that side mirror Valentin's, so a Graff/Jimenez platoon against LHP might be a good idea.

Konerkoholic
07-01-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Jimenez can hit, can get on base, and he's not exactly slow.

He can also get off base. Haven't we all seen enough of this guy? Trade him.

JRIG
07-01-2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic


He can also get off base. Haven't we all seen enough of this guy? Trade him.


I've seen enough of Jimenez to know he can contribute to a winning team. I've seen enough of Willie Harris to know he cannot.

ilsox7
07-01-2003, 05:37 PM
I've seen enough of Jimenez to know he can contribute to a winning team.

Which Jimenez is that? The one who makes defensive gaffs on a regular basis or the one who can't run bases to save his life? Or maybe the one that past and present teammates have called lazy...

Ship him out of town, fast.

JRIG
07-01-2003, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by ilsox7


Which Jimenez is that? The one who makes defensive gaffs on a regular basis or the one who can't run bases to save his life? Or maybe the one that past and present teammates have called lazy...

Ship him out of town, fast.

The Jimenez with a .341 career OBP. The Jimenez who this year bats .298 vs RHP with a .357 OBP. The Jimenez, who, like most players doesn't do everything perfect but does do some things well. Good organizations stress the things that a player can do well, not what they can't do. Jimenez has a lot of positives to go along with his negatives.

FarWestChicago
07-01-2003, 05:50 PM
:tomatoaward

WhiteSox = Life
07-01-2003, 06:05 PM
I love Kenny's aggressiveness and I hope one of his moves works out for a change.

A lot of people wanted Castillo, a lot wanted Alomar. I really hope that Robbie's play will make people say, "Luis who?"

Anyway, all I want to see are more White Sox wins and I don't care who's on the field as long as the score at the end of the game has the White Sox on top.

:gulp:

pearso66
07-01-2003, 06:17 PM
I like this deal, sure we got rid of 3 players for him, but if you look at it, only Ring had the potential to be anything great, so even if it was Ring and Almonte, they would sitll have a player they wouldn't use, so who cares. Plus I think this 3rd player was enough to get the Mets to pay his salary. with 2 i think this deal doesn't happen, or it means we trade for him, but have to pay his salary. Good deal

BTW, what is with Jimenez at 3rd? are we that ready to give up on Crede? I don't want to see Jimenez at 3rd, I want him gone. And Crede will be back, I have faith. I don't want anyone especially Jimenez taking away from his playing time, and at bats.

TwinsGeek
07-01-2003, 06:25 PM
but I'm not sure I know why this trade makes sense. It's long on intangibles, but short on impact, it seems.

1 - It isn't a matter of who Kenny gave up. Even if he got Alomar free, there's the question of who Robbie replaces in the lineup. According to ESPN, the second baseman on the Sox have combined for a 735 OPS so far this season. Alomar is at 693.

2 - And Alomar wasn't free. Not only does he cost prospects that KW could've traded for something else, but he makes it impossible to add a premier second baseman, like Luis Castillo, or even Vidro if the Expos should continue to falter.

3 - And I don't think anyone should count on replacement draft picks when Robbie walks as a free agent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that only happens if the team offers him arbitration and he rejects it. Given his plunge the last two years, he would almost surely accept arbitration, so it's doubtful that KW offers it. And if that's the case, there are no draft picks as compensation. Isn't that correct?

I'm not trying to rain on a parade, I really am not, despite the fact that I'm (obviously) a Twins fan. But I'm going to be writing this up tomorrow and wonder if I'm missing something. I understand the intangibles - it shows the players that management is serious and Robbie could become Robbie again in the AL - but I don't watch the Sox much. Is Jiminez's defense that bad? he got a positive rating from BP2003 last year, while Alomar's looked awful. But that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Thanks.

Fridaythe13thJason
07-01-2003, 06:25 PM
So I was busy doing some things today, and then POOF, the Sox have a new second baseman. I'm too tired to write much, but I will say that I am way in favor of this trade.

kermittheefrog
07-01-2003, 06:29 PM
Another thing I'd like to point out is that by not giving up much in this trade the Sox can still make another move.

Lip Man 1
07-01-2003, 06:34 PM
Two more potential positives to this deal:

1. By moving early the Sox avoid a potential bidding war for Alomar later on. The Cardinals for example have already lost two second baseman to serious injury.

2. By moving now the Sox get Alomar (good or bad) for three months instead of two had they waited for the trading deadline.

Lip

Jjav829
07-01-2003, 06:50 PM
I like it. I'm not nuts about giving up Ring, but what the hell. Go for it! Good job by KW.

wassagstdu
07-01-2003, 07:10 PM
I think this just about does it for me. I can support a boring, incompetent team, but not an obnoxious one. I think it would be a shame if this team were to win, even if they are the Sox. Bye.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-01-2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by wassagstdu
I think this just about does it for me. I can support a boring, incompetent team, but not an obnoxious one. I think it would be a shame if this team were to win, even if they are the Sox. Bye.

Put me down in the column for loving obnoxious champion teams over boring incompetent ones. :smile:

I hope you change your mind, especially since Everett isn't even a member of the team. :(:

Tragg
07-01-2003, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Maybe I'm alone, but if anyone goes to the minors, and KW said at the PC that there's going to be a roster move tomorrow when Alomar arrives, I hope its Jiminez. Willie Harris has speed, and the Sox need it. I miss when a guy could get on and steal second, or just beat the relay on a DP because he's fast. Remember April 2002 w/ Durham and Lofton?

DJ isn't the first option anywhere. At least Harris would be the first option to pinch run, and fair coming in behind Rowand.
I think Konerko should go to the minors: A)He deserves it; b)The sox need him to get it together and that's the only place he can get the work in to straighten it out, if it is fixable.

Kilroy
07-01-2003, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
I think Konerko should go to the minors: A)He deserves it; b)The sox need him to get it together and that's the only place he can get the work in to straighten it out, if it is fixable.

I agree. One thing is for sure, he's not going to crack his slump from the bench. He needs ab's.

I'm getting a bit tired of him getting absolutely no PT at all, but I'd expect that will change when the Sox finish off the Twins tomorrow.

BearSox
07-01-2003, 07:48 PM
Now lets trade with the Cubs to get Sandy Sr. :gulp:

SoxxoS
07-01-2003, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by BearSox
Now lets trade with the Cubs to get Sandy Sr. :gulp:

There also have to be some more nice '97 Indians available. Nagy, Burba, or Jose Mesa, anyone?

Lip Man 1
07-01-2003, 11:09 PM
I'd take Mesa for our bullpen in a heartbeat .

Lip

delben91
07-02-2003, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Two more potential positives to this deal:

1. By moving early the Sox avoid a potential bidding war for Alomar later on. The Cardinals for example have already lost two second baseman to serious injury.

2. By moving now the Sox get Alomar (good or bad) for three months instead of two had they waited for the trading deadline.

Lip

Haha, never thought I'd see Lip this excited again (first witnessed in the euphoria following the Colon deal/Loaiza, Daubach, Rios signings)

Way to go KW, way to go Sox!

Lip Man 1
07-02-2003, 01:57 PM
As I and others like Torn Labrum and Pale Hose George have been saying over and over and over again...it's all about winning. NOTHING else matters. We'd make a deal with the devil (paging Mr. Applebee!) if that's what it took to get it done.

This doesn't excuse the faults of this organization (which are many and serious) but as long as I get the sense that they are trying to win I can live with them.

Lip

gosox41
07-02-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
As I and others like Torn Labrum and Pale Hose George have been saying over and over and over again...it's all about winning. NOTHING else matters. We'd make a deal with the devil (paging Mr. Applebee!) if that's what it took to get it done.

This doesn't excuse the faults of this organization (which are many and serious) but as long as I get the sense that they are trying to win I can live with them.

Lip

Is making a deal with Mr. Reisndorf the equivalent of making a deal with the devil?

Bob

hold2dibber
07-02-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Two more potential positives to this deal:

1. By moving early the Sox avoid a potential bidding war for Alomar later on. The Cardinals for example have already lost two second baseman to serious injury.

2. By moving now the Sox get Alomar (good or bad) for three months instead of two had they waited for the trading deadline.

Lip

I would think that the Cardinals would be a perfect choice for a destination for Jimenez. The guy has talent; I'd be pissed if the Sox just cut him loose instead of getting something back for him in trade.

guillen4life13
07-02-2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I would think that the Cardinals would be a perfect choice for a destination for Jimenez. The guy has talent; I'd be pissed if the Sox just cut him loose instead of getting something back for him in trade.

You knocked it on the head. Do the Cards have an expendable reliever?