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Jurr
06-30-2003, 11:00 AM
Gammons reports that the Expos, Royals, and White Sox are all fighting for Alomar, and there should be some move as early as this week. He says the White Sox have the lead on the deal because of some minor league pitcher that is "intriguing" to the Expos.
Gammons of all people even stated that the Sox are going to be a force in the central the rest of this year. How about that for weird?? He never says stuff like that!!!

A.T. Money
06-30-2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Jurr
Gammons reports that the Expos, Royals, and White Sox are all fighting for Alomar, and there should be some move as early as this week. He says the White Sox have the lead on the deal because of some minor league pitcher that is "intriguing" to the Expos.
Gammons of all people even stated that the Sox are going to be a force in the central the rest of this year. How about that for weird?? He never says stuff like that!!!

At the same time, he said we should be contracted. What a dork he is.

lowesox
06-30-2003, 11:14 AM
I wonder if the intriguing pitcher could be Rauch. He has a high ceiling, but poor results. That seems like the kind of guy other teams might find intriguing.

The more I think about it though, the more I think Castillo is our man. This team is very, very slow. Does anybody know if Alomar can still run?

White Stocking
06-30-2003, 11:28 AM
Alomar doesn't have blazing speed, but never really did. He is a very smart base-runner - something the Sox desperately need. Alomar's biggest hang-up at this point is, when the team he is playing for isn't winning, the effort drops with the winning percentage.

maurice
06-30-2003, 11:31 AM
Sandy Alomar, Kenny Lofton, Bartolo Colon, . . . now Roberto Alomar? Can Baerga, Nagy, and Mesa be far behind?

gosox41
06-30-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Jurr
Gammons reports that the Expos, Royals, and White Sox are all fighting for Alomar, and there should be some move as early as this week. He says the White Sox have the lead on the deal because of some minor league pitcher that is "intriguing" to the Expos.
Gammons of all people even stated that the Sox are going to be a force in the central the rest of this year. How about that for weird?? He never says stuff like that!!!

If Gammons reports it, it's probably not going to happen. If I were given a dollar for every rumor Gammons claims was an immenent deal, I could retire.

Is this going to be a 3 way deal? You mentioned a pitcher intriguing to the Expos.

Lastly, if that pitcher is Honel then KW better move out of town.

Bob

gosox41
06-30-2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by maurice
Sandy Alomar, Kenny Lofton, Bartolo Colon, . . . now Roberto Alomar? Can Baerga, Nagy, and Mesa be far behind?


:KW
I'm trying to bring in as many washed up ex-Indian players as possible. Afterall, they had quite a run in the AL Central in the mid to late '90's.

Bob

MHOUSE
06-30-2003, 11:36 AM
Castillo is the guy. He could be our future 2nd baseman and leadoff hitter. He has speed and plays well. HUGE upgrade from Jimenez. I don't mind Alomar, but he seems more like a rent-a-player and I don't want to give up too much or end up inking him to a big deal and then have him break down. How old is Alomar?

A.T. Money
06-30-2003, 11:36 AM
I don't think Honel is going anywhere for a 16-year veteran.

It'll be someone else. And if Sandy goes to KW and begs him to bring Robbie here, then maybe Robbie wants to come here.

gosox41
06-30-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by White Stocking
Alomar doesn't have blazing speed, but never really did. He is a very smart base-runner - something the Sox desperately need. Alomar's biggest hang-up at this point is, when the team he is playing for isn't winning, the effort drops with the winning percentage.

I was just wondering if Alomar still has it. His OPS isn't all that good, comparable to Jimenez. Will he be motivated to be the Alomar of old? Has anyoone seen him play in NY or know what the NY papers say about his effort?

Bob

FJA
06-30-2003, 11:40 AM
Neal Cotts, the minor leaguer who came over in the Koch deal, is the pitcher in question.

MHOUSE
06-30-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by FJA
Neal Cotts, the minor leaguer who came over in the Koch deal, is the pitcher in question.

Cotts was pitching really well in the minors IIRC. I hope KW doesn't overpay.

gosox41
06-30-2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Cotts was pitching really well in the minors IIRC. I hope KW doesn't overpay.


:KW
Who me????

FJA
06-30-2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by FJA
Neal Cotts, the minor leaguer who came over in the Koch deal, is the pitcher in question.

And here's the line from Birmingham:

Neal Cotts 6-2 2.28 ERA 10 G 0 CG 0 SHO 0 SV 51.1 IP 33 H 15 R 13 ER 2 HR 32 BB 69 SO

MHOUSE
06-30-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by FJA
And here's the line from Birmingham:

Neal Cotts 6-2 2.28 ERA 10 G 0 CG 0 SHO 0 SV 51.1 IP 33 H 15 R 13 ER 2 HR 32 BB 69 SO

Wow that sounds really good. What kind of pitcher is he? Any past arm troubles or worries? What about age?

kwschro
06-30-2003, 11:52 AM
Cotts pitched at Illinois State, he's 23 years old. I've seen him pitch at ISU, he's got good stuff. I think that Kenny would be overpaying for Alomar by giving up good young arms

FJA
06-30-2003, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Wow that sounds really good. What kind of pitcher is he? Any past arm troubles or worries? What about age?

I don't know anything about him along these lines (except that he's 23), but what I do remember reading is that his name has been brought up in a number of trades--including one with the Yankees--and he's playing in the All-Star Futures game. My best judgement is that he's hardly someone we can afford to blindly part with.

That being said, I'd rather see another name in any Alomar deal, considering we probably won't see Alomar in a Sox uniform anytime past this season.

JasonC23
06-30-2003, 12:14 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how Roberto Alomar is an upgrade at 2B. I mean, he's old and he's been below average the last 2 years. But I decided to keep an open mind about the fact that his OPS is lower than D'Angelo's (.742 vs .696), thinking maybe it's a park-effect thing (Shea is a notorious pitcher's park). So I went over to the Baseball Prospectus Web site to see what the adjusted values of D'Angelo and Alomar are.

Jimenez's EQA: .260
Alomar's EQA: .257

Jimenez's RARP: 7.6
Alomar's RARP: 6.5

So, Alomar is older, in the last year of his contract, and worse. Please, someone, explain to me how this would be a good move and not just another "let's get an over-the-hill veteran, play him at the expense of a younger player, then act shocked when it doesn't work out" Kenny Williams-patented move? :?: :?:

Luis Castillo, on the other hand...

Jimenez's EQA: .260
Castillo's EQA: .270

Jimenez's RARP: 7.6
Castillo's RARP: 12.5

Kenny, if you're going to make a deal for a 2B, PLEASE make this one!!

moochpuppy
06-30-2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Sandy Alomar, Kenny Lofton, Bartolo Colon, . . . now Roberto Alomar? Can Baerga, Nagy, and Mesa be far behind?

Isn't Finley still available? :o:

Lip Man 1
06-30-2003, 12:23 PM
According to The Sporting News, Finley turned down an offer from the Cardinals at 2 million for a half season. He (or his agent) feels he should get more then that.

When I covered Chuck when he was pitching at Northeast Louisiana University in Monroe, I always felt he was a level headed guy. I'm surprised that he thinks he should get more money.

Lip

moochpuppy
06-30-2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
According to The Sporting News, Finley turned down an offer from the Cardinals at 2 million for a half season. He (or his agent) feels he should get more then that.

When I covered Chuck when he was pitching at Northeast Louisiana University in Monroe, I always felt he was a level headed guy. I'm surprised that he thinks he should get more money.

Lip

Sounds like he agent to me.

Iguana775
06-30-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Sandy Alomar, Kenny Lofton, Bartolo Colon, . . . now Roberto Alomar? Can Baerga, Nagy, and Mesa be far behind?

I was thinking the same thing. lol.

Iguana775
06-30-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
I'm still trying to figure out how Roberto Alomar is an upgrade at 2B. I mean, he's old and he's been below average the last 2 years. But I decided to keep an open mind about the fact that his OPS is lower than D'Angelo's (.742 vs .696), thinking maybe it's a park-effect thing (Shea is a notorious pitcher's park). So I went over to the Baseball Prospectus Web site to see what the adjusted values of D'Angelo and Alomar are.

Jimenez's EQA: .260
Alomar's EQA: .257

Jimenez's RARP: 7.6
Alomar's RARP: 6.5

So, Alomar is older, in the last year of his contract, and worse. Please, someone, explain to me how this would be a good move and not just another "let's get an over-the-hill veteran, play him at the expense of a younger player, then act shocked when it doesn't work out" Kenny Williams-patented move? :?: :?:

Luis Castillo, on the other hand...

Jimenez's EQA: .260
Castillo's EQA: .270

Jimenez's RARP: 7.6
Castillo's RARP: 12.5

Kenny, if you're going to make a deal for a 2B, PLEASE make this one!!

Yea, I'd much rather have Castillo. would Rauch be enough? he had a lot of hype but got hurt and hasnt been as effective since.

hold2dibber
06-30-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
I'm still trying to figure out how Roberto Alomar is an upgrade at 2B. I mean, he's old and he's been below average the last 2 years. But I decided to keep an open mind about the fact that his OPS is lower than D'Angelo's (.742 vs .696), thinking maybe it's a park-effect thing (Shea is a notorious pitcher's park). So I went over to the Baseball Prospectus Web site to see what the adjusted values of D'Angelo and Alomar are.

Jimenez's EQA: .260
Alomar's EQA: .257

Jimenez's RARP: 7.6
Alomar's RARP: 6.5

So, Alomar is older, in the last year of his contract, and worse. Please, someone, explain to me how this would be a good move and not just another "let's get an over-the-hill veteran, play him at the expense of a younger player, then act shocked when it doesn't work out" Kenny Williams-patented move? :?: :?:

Luis Castillo, on the other hand...

Jimenez's EQA: .260
Castillo's EQA: .270

Jimenez's RARP: 7.6
Castillo's RARP: 12.5

Kenny, if you're going to make a deal for a 2B, PLEASE make this one!!

The thinking, I assume, would be that Alomar would be re-vitalized playing for a team that is (arguably) in contention and to play with Sandy again. Also, he is a better fielder and baserunner than Jimenez, IMHO. But I still don't think it's a good idea, unless you're not giving up much of anything and not taking on so much of his salary that you can't add a CF or another SP.

pudge
06-30-2003, 12:56 PM
Hell no to Roberto Almoar, unless you can get him for nothing. Castillo is a different story...

1951Campbell
06-30-2003, 01:05 PM
Gammons of all people even stated that the Sox are going to be a force in the central the rest of this year. How about that for weird?? He never says stuff like that!!!

Being a force in the central is like being the skinniest kid at fat camp.

Joel Perez
06-30-2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
I wonder if the intriguing pitcher could be Rauch. He has a high ceiling, but poor results. That seems like the kind of guy other teams might find intriguing.

The more I think about it though, the more I think Castillo is our man. This team is very, very slow. Does anybody know if Alomar can still run?

NOW, THERE IS A BASEBALL PLAYER THAT WE SHOULD GO AFTER!!!!

Luis Castillo from Florida.

The Marlins are going nowhere, and since they are in the NL, I would feel comfortable in trading, say, Jason Stumm, Jon Rauch and a player to be named later for Castillo and another player to be named.

Foulke You
06-30-2003, 02:04 PM
I think bringing Roberto Alomar here would be a HUGE upgrade at 2B. The guy is a vacuum cleaner at 2B and does not make the gaping mental mistakes young D'(umb)Angelo makes.

The Mets are an absolute mess right now and have been since the 2001 season. Getting out of that bad situation and back into the AL Central Division race where he has had success playing alongside his brother would most likely reignite him.

Even if he didn't immediately turn his offensive numbers around, the most important thing is that Roberto Alomar is a proven commodity and is a SMART player something the Sox are sorely lacking. You need to be strong up the middle to win and Alomar would instantly solidify that side of the infield. His defense alone would be worth trading for. Even though his offense has declined in NY, his fielding % is still up there. Alomar and Valentin would make a nice DP combo. I know people will look at Alomar's offense stats with the Mets in the past 2 years but I tend to think a lot of that has to do with playing in the grand canyon of Shea with a bad Mets team that was out of the race since May.

If he came back to the AL Central and gave us his solid glove and did something close to what he did the last time he played in this division it would be a huge boost. Take a look at what he did with Cleveland:

1999 .323 avg .533 slg 37 SB .422 OBP 24 HR 120 RBI .992 Fpct
2000 .310 avg .475 slg 39 SB .378 OBP 19 HR 89 RBI .980 Fpct
2001 .336 avg .541 slg 30 SB .415 OBP 20 HR 100 RBI .995 Fpct

Don't overpay Kenny but make this deal happen. I want to win now and am sick of watching the mental errors this team makes. Trades are all about taking a risk. I'm sick of waiting for young pitchers to blossom. If you have to give up a Rauch to make this happen then do it. Let's get some proven MLB talent while the Twins are reeling and we're knocking on the door of the division lead.

spanishwhite
06-30-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by FJA
And here's the line from Birmingham:

Neal Cotts 6-2 2.28 ERA 10 G 0 CG 0 SHO 0 SV 51.1 IP 33 H 15 R 13 ER 2 HR 32 BB 69 SO

Dont shortchange my man Cotts

13 starts
1.83 ERA
68.2 innings
96 k's

His problem is control and durability. But he has already shown improvement from last year. He has risen quickly
through our system as one of the top prospects.

If Montreal was getting Gonzalez(a guy who is actually producing) for a B and C prospect, I dont see why we couldn't
do the same for an underproducing Alomar.

Depending on what they want I would let them choose 2 from the following list.

Stewart
Ginter
Almonte
Hummel
Pacheco
Yofu
Adkins
An
Sanders (the pitcher)
Allen
Bikowski