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View Full Version : why i'm less optimistic now than when we were 8 under


jeremyb1
06-30-2003, 01:58 AM
i've discussed this at some length in a different thread but i thought it merited its own thread. i currently feel that due to the organizations efforts to replace average hitters with poor ones combined with the offensive struggles of the bottom half of the order, despite the fact that the team is improving in many regards, we are doomed.

chicago sports reports As long as Harris continues to play well, Jimenez appears to have lost his job at second base. The team is also considering promoting Aaron Miles from Triple-A Charlotte or upgrading through a trade.

the problem here is that harris has not been playing well. despite the fact that he has a .239 since returning from the d.l and worse prior to his dl stint which would qualify for the worst in the majors if he had enough at bats. apparently it has been decided that despite his inability to get on base and work the count, harris should not only start in place of jimenez whose on base percentage is league average despite his recent struggles at the plate which have caused his on base percentage to fall from .400. while jimenez has struggled lately at least he has shown he possesses the ability to get on base when performing well, a skill harris has never demonstrated.

of course we could call up miles but you have to remember that he walks about as often as harris, has not hit anywhere near as well as harris did in charlotte, and is in his late 20s.

combine this downgrade in the lineup with our season long offensive struggles at centerfield and the monumental failures of crede (.271 on base percentage which is tied for the worst in the majors), konerko, and a less than stellar output from olivo (.286 obp) and you have a formula for disaster. at least earlier in the season we could count on carlos, maggs, frank, jose, and paully to turn things around.

unfortunately, paully is now reaching the point where its become uncertain he'll snap out of it and there's no guarantee guys like crede, olivo, and rowand will succeed. going out of our way to produce a hitter like jimenez with average production with another horrendous hitter such as harris or miles will go a long way towards dooming this team. we need to find ways to get the guys that aren't performing out of the lineup by playing somone like graff less often or making some trades instead of replacing solid performers with terrible ones or this team has no shot at hitting well enough to make the playoffs.

hold2dibber
06-30-2003, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i've discussed this at some length in a different thread but i thought it merited its own thread. i currently feel that due to the organizations efforts to replace average hitters with poor ones combined with the offensive struggles of the bottom half of the order, despite the fact that the team is improving in many regards, we are doomed.

chicago sports reports

the problem here is that harris has not been playing well. despite the fact that he has a .239 since returning from the d.l and worse prior to his dl stint which would qualify for the worst in the majors if he had enough at bats. apparently it has been decided that despite his inability to get on base and work the count, harris should not only start in place of jimenez whose on base percentage is league average despite his recent struggles at the plate which have caused his on base percentage to fall from .400. while jimenez has struggled lately at least he has shown he possesses the ability to get on base when performing well, a skill harris has never demonstrated.

of course we could call up miles but you have to remember that he walks about as often as harris, has not hit anywhere near as well as harris did in charlotte, and is in his late 20s.

combine this downgrade in the lineup with our season long offensive struggles at centerfield and the monumental failures of crede (.271 on base percentage which is tied for the worst in the majors), konerko, and a less than stellar output from olivo (.286 obp) and you have a formula for disaster. at least earlier in the season we could count on carlos, maggs, frank, jose, and paully to turn things around.

unfortunately, paully is now reaching the point where its become uncertain he'll snap out of it and there's no guarantee guys like crede, olivo, and rowand will succeed. going out of our way to produce a hitter like jimenez with average production with another horrendous hitter such as harris or miles will go a long way towards dooming this team. we need to find ways to get the guys that aren't performing out of the lineup by playing somone like graff less often or making some trades instead of replacing solid performers with terrible ones or this team has no shot at hitting well enough to make the playoffs.

I think you are WAY overanalyzing a single unsubstantiated snippet from the Trib. You are exactly right - Harris has not played well. I do not see the Sox continuing to play him over Jimenez if he doesn't produce. Why the hell would they? I just think they're trying to push Jimenez - he definitely strikes me as a guy that needs to be pushed. I promise you that Jimenez is going to get way more ABs than Harris the rest of the season. You'll notice that the Sox played Jimenez at 3B yesterday, instead of Crede. I think Crede -- not Jimenez -- is in danger of losing playing time.

MarqSox
06-30-2003, 07:30 AM
While I feel your pain about our stunningly bad hitters, let's not overlook the fact that our 3-6 (Thomas, Ordonez, Lee, Valentin) is still a potent force, and if Daubach starts playing every day, you can add him to that list. I think the real Buehrle is back, and it seems like Garland has found a decent level of consistency.

This team is not nearly as good as we thought heading into the season -- Konerko's inexplicable plummet has a lot to do with it -- but it's also not so bad that we can't win this division. I'll eat my hat if the Royals win 90 games, and the Twins aren't exactly the 1997 Indians here. If we were in any other division, I'd share your pessimism, but we've got a good enough shot that I think KW will make a major acquisition in the next month, which could be a good or bad thing.

Point is, as awful as the Sox have played, I think the worst is behind us, and we're still in this thing.

voodoochile
06-30-2003, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
i've discussed this at some length in a different thread but i thought it merited its own thread. i currently feel that due to the organizations efforts to replace average hitters with poor ones combined with the offensive struggles of the bottom half of the order, despite the fact that the team is improving in many regards, we are doomed.

chicago sports reports

the problem here is that harris has not been playing well. despite the fact that he has a .239 since returning from the d.l and worse prior to his dl stint which would qualify for the worst in the majors if he had enough at bats. apparently it has been decided that despite his inability to get on base and work the count, harris should not only start in place of jimenez whose on base percentage is league average despite his recent struggles at the plate which have caused his on base percentage to fall from .400. while jimenez has struggled lately at least he has shown he possesses the ability to get on base when performing well, a skill harris has never demonstrated.

of course we could call up miles but you have to remember that he walks about as often as harris, has not hit anywhere near as well as harris did in charlotte, and is in his late 20s.

combine this downgrade in the lineup with our season long offensive struggles at centerfield and the monumental failures of crede (.271 on base percentage which is tied for the worst in the majors), konerko, and a less than stellar output from olivo (.286 obp) and you have a formula for disaster. at least earlier in the season we could count on carlos, maggs, frank, jose, and paully to turn things around.

unfortunately, paully is now reaching the point where its become uncertain he'll snap out of it and there's no guarantee guys like crede, olivo, and rowand will succeed. going out of our way to produce a hitter like jimenez with average production with another horrendous hitter such as harris or miles will go a long way towards dooming this team. we need to find ways to get the guys that aren't performing out of the lineup by playing somone like graff less often or making some trades instead of replacing solid performers with terrible ones or this team has no shot at hitting well enough to make the playoffs.

Whose fault is all of this? I know have been beating a dead horse on the Jerry Manuel subject, but all of these decisions come back to one person.

pudge
06-30-2003, 12:53 PM
jeremy, hey I think we finally agree on something. Putting Harris at 2B and Jimenez at 3B yesterday was a total freaking JOKE. Not only did Harris do NOTHING as the lead-off man, Jimenez makes two costly errors at a position he hasn't played all season! The decisions by Sox management continue to totally suck. And as long as that keeps happening, we're screwed, folks.

jeremyb1
06-30-2003, 04:34 PM
i don't know why we're trying so hard to get harris into the lineup. he didn't get it done at the end of last year or the beginning of this season and he hasn't gotten the job done since returning from the dl. at least rowand has shown the ability to hit at the major league level even though he hasn't done it consistently over a season. in my opinion a lot of that has to do with playing time and injuries.

as for overreacting to one article, i think i may have placed a little too much emphasis on that one article but i still maintain my position. as much as i'm upset by the efforts to keep harris in the lineup, i'm just as upset about possibly calling up miles and more importantly the realization that some of these guys aren't improving.

on saturday we somehow won despite having harris, rowand, paully, crede, and olivo in the lineup. the highest on base percentage in that group is olivo's which is about 40 points below the league average. that's over half the guys in our lineup that are horribly below average hitters. if we act sensibly and play jimenez and daubach we might be all right. i also think if we give rowand regular at bats he'll be at least average offensively. i can handle crede and olivo since they're young but if crede continues to walk less than almost any other player in the majors it doesn't matter that he's young, he will not improve. there are only a few shea hillenbrands, alfonso sorianos, and randal simons out there that can hit without any plate discipline and even those guys aren't as productive as most assume because they don't get on base often. if i were kenny and jerry i wouldn't completely rule out playing graffanino at third if our number one objective is simply to win instead of also developing players for the future.