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View Full Version : The Return Of "Slowswing?"


RKMeibalane
06-29-2003, 12:10 PM
From the Cubune:

He's available: Don't be shocked if the White Sox bring back Chris Singleton at some point in the next month. The guy who was a key for them in 2000 has dropped out of the picture in Oakland because of the emergence of Eric Byrnes.

Singleton would be a defensive upgrade, if not a significant improvement at the top of the order. This season he's hitting .299 with a .346 on-base percentage.

He's being used as an extra outfielder for the Athletics, playing as much on the corners as in center.

"This is my job; I have to do what I'm called on to do," said Singleton, who is one of Manuel's favorites. "It's not my first choice, but I play and work for the Oakland A's. It's a matter of getting comfortable there, but it's not necessarily somewhere I want to get comfortable. It's kind of a double-edged sword. We'll see."

ScottyTheSoxFan
06-29-2003, 12:35 PM
:ohno
"Noooooooooooooooo!"

:slowswing
"Noooooooooooooooo!"

:KW
"2 wrongs might make a right"

Lip Man 1
06-29-2003, 12:56 PM
Slowswing is hitting around .300 and is better defensively then any of the garbage we've got now isn't he?

Lip

Iguana775
06-29-2003, 03:58 PM
he's certainly better that anything we have now. I'd welcome him back.

duke of dorwood
06-29-2003, 04:09 PM
Can Norton and Abbott be far behind?

DonkeyKongerko
06-29-2003, 04:14 PM
Get the Milkman on the horn while you're at it.

ChiSox14305635
06-29-2003, 04:17 PM
I'm not sure that would happen. Especially considering the frosty relationship KW has with Beane after that Moneyball book. He might not want to make another deal with him again.

RKMeibalane
06-29-2003, 04:17 PM
I hope KW doesn't go to far with this. Otherwise, he may bring back people we don't want...

:hitless

"Remember me?"

MisterB
06-29-2003, 04:39 PM
The current production of of Sox CF's:

.216 ba, .291 obp, .255 slg, 4 hr, 28 rbi, 3 of 7 sb

Chris Singleton:

.297, .344, .418, 1, 21, 1 of 3

At this point, Singleton is potentially better on all fronts than anything we've gotten out of CF so far. The steals totals are decieving since the A's refuse to attempt steals (Singleton was 20 of 22 attempts last year), and he's only had about 60% of the playing time of our CF's so the totals are also low. We already know he can play rings defensively around anyone we've had out there. The only drawback to this is that KW has to deal with Billy Beane, which means we'll give up too much talent to get him.

SoxxoS
06-29-2003, 05:04 PM
There should be NO complaints about bringing him back. He is 10 times better than the crap we throw out there now. Aaron Rowand can go back to what he should be, a good 4th outfielder and insurance against an injury. He is not a starting CF.

Everyone should welcome Chris Singleton back with open arms.

doublem23
06-29-2003, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS

Everyone should welcome Chris Singleton back with open arms.

Pardon me if I'm not as enthusiastic.

Singleton? Ugh.

voodoochile
06-29-2003, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Pardon me if I'm not as enthusiastic.

Singleton? Ugh.

Yeah, but CLR is probably dancing in the streets, or whatever they do down there in Florida to celbrate... Take down the window boards from last year's hurricane season? :D:

jeremyb1
06-29-2003, 08:08 PM
i think if rowand played every day, he's outproduce singleton the rest of the way. his defense isn't as good but you have to think about whether singleton will continue to hit as well as he has and how much we'd give up.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-29-2003, 08:17 PM
If I can't have a centerfielder that can get on base and play his position competently (that rules out both Swingleton and Rowand), I prefer sitting pat until something better becomes available. Rowand might make a decent #4 outfielder, but I would prefer my backup outfielder being a solid defender for late-inning stints. Unfortunately, that is not Rowand.

So I guess what I'm saying is that our problems are worse than simply finding a competent centerfielder. We need a competent backup outfielder, too.

I sure hope LTP can get it together soon.

RKMeibalane
06-29-2003, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I sure hope LTP can get it together soon.

How is Borchard doing? He was awful during his stint with the Sox last month. I hope he can get it going, because his bat could help the Sox in their fight to dethrone the Twins and Royals.

Daver
06-29-2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
How is Borchard doing?

You don't want to know.Trust me you just don't.

kermittheefrog
06-29-2003, 08:22 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this but I'd be happy to have Singleton back right now. Our centerfielders have been unbelievably bad. So bad in fact that even if Chris Singleton hit as badly as one of his poor seasons he'd be much better than them.

RKMeibalane
06-29-2003, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by daver
You don't want to know.Trust me you just don't.

Try me. I've developed a fairly thick skin over the years.

Daver
06-29-2003, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Try me. I've developed a fairly thick skin over the years.

His most recent numbers.


CWS J.Borchard CF 5 0 0 0 .221 - 2 K; in 1-for-22, 9 K slump

RKMeibalane
06-29-2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by daver
His most recent numbers.


CWS J.Borchard CF 5 0 0 0 .221 - 2 K; in 1-for-22, 9 K slump

Maybe he should think about switching to football.

SoxxoS
06-29-2003, 09:03 PM
I am very down on Borchard right now. His swing is WAY too long for the majors. He isn't exactly a "young" prospect, either. He doesn't play very good "D" in center. His plate discipline is bad.

I think Jeremy Reed might be a better prospect at this stage. Borchard's got power, that is about his only + tool he has going for him. I am not ready to sign Borchard off, but he looks quite overrated at this point.

You also don't have to be excited about Chris Singleton. However, he is head and shoulders ahead of anything we have now, especially on the defensive end. Even Carlos Lee said something along the line of "I knew when I played with Singleton, I wouldn't worry about going to my left, b/c Singleton was everywhere" That is more than I can say for Rowand, Rios and freakin Willie "I might take the worst routes to fly balls in the majors" Harris. Not Willie's fault, though, he is afterall a second baseman. Typical Sox.

Adding Chris Singleton and/or Robby Alomar would be an EXTREME help to our defense. Everybody wants more speed on this team, and Singleton and Alomar are much faster and have heaps more range than Jimenez and Harris/Roward/Rios. 2B and CF is usually where the speed is in your lineup, hence why the Sox are so slow. It's sad when your catcher is probably the 2nd fastest player on your team.

SoxxoS
06-29-2003, 09:13 PM
I also think Borchard,Valentin should ditch the right handed part of their switch hitting. I don't understand what this infatuation with switch hitting is when a guy hits .300 from the left handed and .100 right handed. Managers are making pitching changes to make the switch hitter switch to his weak side anyway.

Jose Valentin is hitting .257 with 11 home runs from the left side.
He is hitting .161 with 0 home runs from the right side.

RKMeibalane
06-29-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I also think Borchard,Valentin should ditch the right handed part of their switch hitting. I don't understand what this infatuation with switch hitting is when a guy hits .300 from the left handed and .100 right handed. Managers are making pitching changes to make the switch hitter switch to his weak side anyway.

Jose Valentin is hitting .257 with 11 home runs from the left side.
He is hitting .161 with 0 home runs from the right side.

I agree. Valentin has been so ineffective when batting right-handed that Manuel doesn't even play him. There's no point to him being a swtich-hitter anymore. Hitting left-handed full time might actually make him a more productive hitter over the course of a full season.

lowesox
06-29-2003, 10:10 PM
It looks like I'm the only guy here who actually really likes Chris Singleton. I think he's a great role player. He can bunt and steal, which nobody on our roster appears to be able to do. And he plays killer defense. He'll never be mistaken for a superstar, but I like the way he plays.

That said, I wouldn't acquire any other CF until Rowand starts to cool off.

ONE MORE THING: Does anybody else think KW is forcing Jerry Manuel to play Harris to try and justify that trade? Could there be any other excuse for Harris playing this much?

FarWestChicago
06-29-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
It looks like I'm the only guy here who actually really likes Chris Singleton.:wanne

Ahhhhhh, what about my boy CLR?

voodoochile
06-29-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
It looks like I'm the only guy here who actually really likes Chris Singleton. I think he's a great role player. He can bunt and steal, which nobody on our roster appears to be able to do. And he plays killer defense. He'll never be mistaken for a superstar, but I like the way he plays.

That said, I wouldn't acquire any other CF until Rowand starts to cool off.

ONE MORE THING: Does anybody else think KW is forcing Jerry Manuel to play Harris to try and justify that trade? Could there be any other excuse for Harris playing this much?

:jerry
"My sister adopted another kid..."

MarqSox
06-29-2003, 11:22 PM
Bring back Singleton. I'd personally rather have Kenny Lofton, but really all we need is a CF with good defense who isn't a black hole in the batting order. Although Rowand has looked like a major leaguer the last two games, I still dread seeing his name in the lineup -- and it's not like he's a gold glover out there, though he's not bad either.

Point is, if we can get Chris for a reasonable price (which is a big if considering we're talking about Billy Beane), I'd be a huge fan of reacquiring him.

Randar68
06-29-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Point is, if we can get Chris for a reasonable price (which is a big if considering we're talking about Billy Beane), I'd be a huge fan of reacquiring him.

I agree with everything but except Rowand being "not bad". Think Billy Beane wants Jon Adkins back?

MarkEdward
06-29-2003, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I can't believe I'm saying this but I'd be happy to have Singleton back right now. Our centerfielders have been unbelievably bad. So bad in fact that even if Chris Singleton hit as badly as one of his poor seasons he'd be much better than them.

What would the A's want for Singleton? Aside from Reed, Cotts, and Honel, I don't think Beane would want any of our other prospects. They still need a power-hitting corner outfielder. Honestly, I don't know who we can give up for Singleton.

Singleton and Adam Piatt for Carlos Lee?

Randar68
06-29-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
What would the A's want for Singleton? Aside from Reed, Cotts, and Honel, I don't think Beane would want any of our other prospects. They still need a power-hitting corner outfielder. Honestly, I don't know who we can give up for Singleton.

Singleton and Adam Piatt for Carlos Lee?

Singleton for Rowand, or Valenzuela, or Chad Durham, or anyone in AA or AAA who isn't a real prospect!

kermittheefrog
06-30-2003, 02:02 AM
Billy might be content in just moving the rest of Singleton's salary although I have a feeling the first name to come up in talks with him will be Reed.

jeremyb1
06-30-2003, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Billy might be content in just moving the rest of Singleton's salary although I have a feeling the first name to come up in talks with him will be Reed.

haha. that's exactly what i was thinking. i don't think kw is quite that stupid.

B. Diddy
06-30-2003, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
What would the A's want for Singleton? Aside from Reed, Cotts, and Honel, I don't think Beane would want any of our other prospects. They still need a power-hitting corner outfielder. Honestly, I don't know who we can give up for Singleton.

Singleton and Adam Piatt for Carlos Lee?

I wouldn't want to give up Carlos for Singleton. Not that Carlos is a stud, but we can't afford to lose any more offense right now.

Somebody mentioned brining back Kenny Lofton, which I think would be a mistake as well. He's old, injury-prone, and has generally not been a well-liked guy around the clubhouse over the course of his career.

I'd like to do a deal involving Corey Patterson. I'm sure that the Cubs would want a lot for him, though. They need a third baseman, but I'd hesitant to give up Crede right now.

I wouldn't mind Singleton if we didn't have to give up much for him. However, as somebody previously mentioned, this is Billy Beane you're going to have to deal with.

SoxxoS
06-30-2003, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by B. Diddy
I wouldn't want to give up Carlos for Singleton. Not that Carlos is a stud, but we can't afford to lose any more offense right now.

Somebody mentioned brining back Kenny Lofton, which I think would be a mistake as well. He's old, injury-prone, and has generally not been a well-liked guy around the clubhouse over the course of his career.

I'd like to do a deal involving Corey Patterson. I'm sure that the Cubs would want a lot for him, though. They need a third baseman, but I'd hesitant to give up Crede right now.

I wouldn't mind Singleton if we didn't have to give up much for him. However, as somebody previously mentioned, this is Billy Beane you're going to have to deal with.

Cubs would never move Patterson, esp. to the Sox although he would be a great fit.
Singleton shouldn't command any of our top 25 prospects. A few fringe ones, and that's it.

gosox41
06-30-2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
I'm not sure that would happen. Especially considering the frosty relationship KW has with Beane after that Moneyball book. He might not want to make another deal with him again.

Good. Then KW won't get outsmarted and look like such a dunce. Now if we can only get him to not make another deal with Pittsburgh again.

Bob

gosox41
06-30-2003, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
It looks like I'm the only guy here who actually really likes Chris Singleton. I think he's a great role player. He can bunt and steal, which nobody on our roster appears to be able to do. And he plays killer defense. He'll never be mistaken for a superstar, but I like the way he plays.

That said, I wouldn't acquire any other CF until Rowand starts to cool off.

ONE MORE THING: Does anybody else think KW is forcing Jerry Manuel to play Harris to try and justify that trade? Could there be any other excuse for Harris playing this much?

I think Harris is playing because of lack of options. Crede is slumping and that may mean "No-brain" Jimenez might have to play 3B. Of course he is slumping and I think JM is finally getting sick of his mental errors. At least Rowand is starting to hit in the OF.

Bob

gosox41
06-30-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
haha. that's exactly what i was thinking. i don't think kw is quite that stupid.


:KW

Do you doubt my ability to overpay for medicority? It's the one thing I have done well on this job...give up to much for too little.

voodoochile
06-30-2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I think Harris is playing because of lack of options. Crede is slumping and that may mean "No-brain" Jimenez might have to play 3B. Of course he is slumping and I think JM is finally getting sick of his mental errors. At least Rowand is starting to hit in the OF.

Bob

How much of an upgrade is this honestly? Is the difference defensively worth the offense the Sox are giving up?

Harris>Jimenez 2B defense
Crede>Jimenez 3B defense

Jimenez>Crede>Harris offense

The guy who needs to sit is Harris. He can't hit his way out of a paperbag. The defensive "upgrade" isn't worth it, period.

lowesox
06-30-2003, 11:22 AM
The thing with Harris is he'd be a useful late-inning sub. Because he's versatile in the field, and he's a decent runner. But he's by no means a starter. If we're going to climb back into the race it won't be with his sub 200 average in the order everyday.

Crede may be slumping, but at least he comes up big now and again - and he's got lots of potential. I see nothing in Harris. The comparisons to Ray Durham he's drawn should offend all Ray Durham fans.

MarkEdward
06-30-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


Singleton for Rowand, or Valenzuela, or Chad Durham, or anyone in AA or AAA who isn't a real prospect!

Um, Beane isn't stupid.

I don't know if Beane would be willing to part with Singleton at all. If he goes, that leaves the A's with an outfield of Long, Byrnes, and Dye. The A's are still in the playoff race, and getting rid of Singleton would really damage their hopes.

kermittheefrog
06-30-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Um, Beane isn't stupid.

I don't know if Beane would be willing to part with Singleton at all. If he goes, that leaves the A's with an outfield of Long, Byrnes, and Dye. The A's are still in the playoff race, and getting rid of Singleton would really damage their hopes.

It's not as if trading Singleton would leave them without options. They'd still have Billy McMillon, Adam Piatt and Jason Grabowski to use in the outfield. All of those players have useful skills.

edit: fixed Dye/Singleton typo

Randar68
06-30-2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Um, Beane isn't stupid.

I don't know if Beane would be willing to part with Singleton at all. If he goes, that leaves the A's with an outfield of Long, Byrnes, and Dye. The A's are still in the playoff race, and getting rid of Singleton would really damage their hopes.


In addition to what Kermit said, he makes 1.2 million, so if the Sox picked up the rest of his contract, it would be freeing up around $600K that Oakland is basically wasting on a 4th outfielder.

Joel Perez
06-30-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I hope KW doesn't go to far with this. Otherwise, he may bring back people we don't want...

:hitless

"Remember me?"


:bundy

GREAT JUMPING JEHOSAPHATS!!!

MarkEdward
06-30-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
It's not as if trading Dye would leave them without options. They'd still have Billy McMillon, Adam Piatt and Jason Grabowski to use in the outfield. All of those players have useful skills.

First, I assume you meant Singleton.

Second, I guess you could be right. The A's have other alternatives in the outfield, but none as good as Singleton (isn't that sad?), especially in center. Byrnes is speedy, but I don't think the A's are sold on him as a true center fielder. McMillon has no defensive value, and Piatt and Grabowski are corner outfielders.

Also, it's not like Singleton has a hefty contract. I think you're undervaluing Singleton's role on the A's just a bit.