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View Full Version : Sounds like Jimenez will be gone soon


Saracen
06-29-2003, 12:30 AM
Very interesting article in the Trib:

Sox Not Sold on Jimenez at 2nd (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-030628soxside,1,7650740.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Good quotes from the article:

that talk is fueling speculation that the Sox will either promote Aaron Miles from Triple-A Charlotte or trade for another second baseman if they're contending by the July 31 deadline

There are lingering concerns about Miles' hands and his range, but he has committed only four errors in 58 games this season. Rick Hahn, the Sox's assistant GM, plans to see Miles this week at Charlotte.


As for Jimenez, one Sox player who spoke to the Padres' Ryan Klesko during the series against San Diego two weeks ago told him he agreed with what he had said during spring training. After Jimenez was critical of the Padres, his old teammate, Klesko, told the San Diego Union-Tribune: "He's the laziest teammate I've ever played with—that's 10 years."

The biggest stumbling block in a potential pursuit of Alomar would be his salary: $8 million. But Sox officials know he would cost about $2.65 million over the final two months, assuming the Mets decline to eat any of his contract.
Williams certainly didn't dismiss the possibility of a trade. "Let me put it to you this way, someone asked whether we were contemplating moving some of our big guns, if we were fielding calls," he said. "My reply was we haven't entertained any of that because we are still out trying to make a move to bring another impact guy in here to help our cause."

Another possibility is Florida second baseman Luis Castillo, whom the Marlins are believed to be willing to trade.

MHOUSE
06-29-2003, 12:42 AM
I would rather have Castillo. He's a young, FAST leadoff hitter and pretty good 2nd baseman. Anyone is better than Jimenez. Period. I would like to take a look at Miles and entertain trade possibilities. I think the wheels are in motion. D'Ang is on his way out.

WhiteSox = Life
06-29-2003, 12:47 AM
Well, it'd only make sense if Jimenez were gone by the start of Sunday's game.

I mean, look at what happened to Josh Paul.

Still, the thought of Luis Castillo really excites me. The guy is fiery, a big base-stealing threat and plays well all-around. Definitely a solid 4-tool player.

Alomar sounds like he would be a good pick-up, but despite a few persons' efforts to "sell" me on him, I'm still wary of his numbers drop-off even though he plays for the Vacuities, otherwise known as the New York Mets.

Of course, with a mid-season pickup...

Not to be confused with White Sox Syndrome (WSS) - an affliction that Sox pitchers have that whenever the White Sox tie the game up or take the lead, he immediately lets the game get tied up or coughs up the lead in the opponent's very next at-bats, there's the ever-prevalent White Sox Disease (WSD), which is what I'm afraid of with a trade. That's whenever a star players comes to the White Sox, he plays rather below his usual performance.

doublem23
06-29-2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Anyone is better than Jimenez. Period.

Not Aaron Miles.

ChiSox14305635
06-29-2003, 12:52 AM
Maybe this will light a fire under D'Angelo's butt and get him going. Maybe today was the start of better things to come.

doublem23
06-29-2003, 12:54 AM
ChiSox14305635... You need to update your sig, man.

Chicago Bears presented by Bank1-2004 Super Bowl Champs.

Get with the times, daddy-o. :smile:

MHOUSE
06-29-2003, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Maybe this will light a fire under D'Angelo's butt and get him going. Maybe today was the start of better things to come.

I think his track record of laziness and lack of focus (NYY, San Diego, Sox 2003) show that you might literally have to start his butt on fire to get anything out of him. A tiger can't change his stripes and while I'm thankful for the clutch hit to beat the Flubbies, I doubt he'll become Alfonso Soriano anytime soon or ever.

ChiSox14305635
06-29-2003, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
ChiSox14305635... You need to update your sig, man.

Chicago Bears presented by Bank1-2004 Super Bowl Champs.

Get with the times, daddy-o. :smile:


lol

I'm not corporate, and I'm not selling out! :D:

Besides, if I did, it would have to be to U.S. Cellular.

Saracen
06-29-2003, 09:59 AM
I'm just glad KW is considering some moves. I really thought they'd stay with Jimenez, considering this organization never seems to punish lackadaisical play.

jeremyb1
06-29-2003, 05:44 PM
the last thing we need is to get miles in the lineup. kw is trying to set a record for young hitters incapable of working the count and drawing walks. if he gets his way he can start miles (16 bb's in 69 games in AAA), crede (13 bb's, tied for the lowest obp and 4th fewest walks in the majors), and harris (2 bb's in 89 plate appearances, .239 obp since returning compared to .184 obp before his injury). if we actually wanted to make the playoffs we'd play jimenez and his league average on base percentage at 2B and rowand who has worked the count well since he was recalled. we'd also start giving graffanino a start every 4 or 5 games.

MHOUSE
06-29-2003, 06:52 PM
Jimenez has a good OBP, but his average is way down from around .300 towards the .250 range. His lazy play and bad defense isn't going to be the future at 2B. We need a replacement there and NO, Harris is not the answer.

MarkEdward
06-29-2003, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Jimenez has a good OBP, but his average is way down from around .300 towards the .250 range. His lazy play and bad defense isn't going to be the future at 2B. We need a replacement there and NO, Harris is not the answer.

Neither is Miles!

By the way, good post Jeremy.

jeremyb1
06-29-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Jimenez has a good OBP, but his average is way down from around .300 towards the .250 range. His lazy play and bad defense isn't going to be the future at 2B. We need a replacement there and NO, Harris is not the answer.

neither is miles. he's not hitting as well as harris did in AAA and he's what - 27 or 28? if we can find someone who has as good or better offensive production than jimenez at 2B and makes fewer mental mistakes in the field and on the basepath, i'm all for it but we certainly don't have this player in our organization, alomar is not a long term solution, and i shudder somewhat when thinking about what kenny would give the marlins for castillo.

jeremyb1
06-29-2003, 07:18 PM
looking at castillo his ops is .767 compared to .742 for jimenez so its not a major upgrade. he's also only 14 for 23 in stolen base attempts. however, the way things go in the majors we'll be trading for a .300 hitter with 14 stolen bases and give up a ton for this huge upgrade when in reality he's as productive offensively as jimenez is. he's also made as many errors as jimenez coming into today's game.

Randar68
06-29-2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
looking at castillo his ops is .767 compared to .742 for jimenez so its not a major upgrade. he's also only 14 for 23 in stolen base attempts. however, the way things go in the majors we'll be trading for a .300 hitter with 14 stolen bases and give up a ton for this huge upgrade when in reality he's as productive offensively as jimenez is. he's also made as many errors as jimenez coming into today's game.


Mental capacity and stupidity cannot be measured by any number. Specifically, the ability to make a smart decision under pressure is an immeasureable charactersitic. This is why Derek Jeter is an absolute styar despite.. average (by today's standard) offensive numbers, and below average defense.

If you looked at Derek Jeter's numbers, he wouldn't appear to be a star... but...

We need winners. Not lazy boneheads. This is the same reason why Valentin has always been defended by most Sox fans. He may not hit for average or field like The Choice (by stathead measures), but he gets big hits and makes the plays in the crunch.

Speaking of clutch, why would Jerry pintch hit for Olivo with Rios, when Olivo has been the best clutch hitter all damn year?

Jerry, get your head outta yer arse! If you want to pinch hit for someone just to get Rios in the game, Harris was due up soon!

voodoochile
06-29-2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Mental capacity and stupidity cannot be measured by any number. Specifically, the ability to make a smart decision under pressure is an immeasureable charactersitic. This is why Derek Jeter is an absolute styar despite.. average (by today's standard) offensive numbers, and below average defense.

If you looked at Derek Jeter's numbers, he wouldn't appear to be a star... but...

We need winners. Not lazy boneheads. This is the same reason why Valentin has always been defended by most Sox fans. He may not hit for average or field like The Choice (by stathead measures), but he gets big hits and makes the plays in the crunch.

Speaking of clutch, why would Jerry pintch hit for Olivo with Rios, when Olivo has been the best clutch hitter all damn year?

Jerry, get your head outta yer arse! If you want to pinch hit for someone just to get Rios in the game, Harris was due up soon!

:jerry
"Replace a lefty with a lefty? What are you nuts? Why make a change at all in that case? Leftys hit righthanded pitchers better it's a fact. You can look it up. I've got it written right here in my book. That's the most preposterous thing I've ever heard. You clearly know nothing about baseball. And, besides, my sister would be upset if I took her son out of the game..."

jeremyb1
06-30-2003, 01:43 AM
clutch hitting is a myth.

when jimenez throws the ball away or tries to barehand a double play grounder and drops it, he receives an error. if he has poor work ethic. is lazy and doesn't work on his hitting, his average will drop to the point where it demonstrates he's no longer effective. i suppose a botched double play where the second out is not recorded or a base running mistake isn't measured statistically, but if you think those factors which have only come into play a few times this season outweigh the difference between an average hitter and a well below average hitter, you're not thinking things through clearly.

Paulwny
06-30-2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
clutch hitting is a myth.



What is your criteria for a clutch hitter ?

Viva Magglio
06-30-2003, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny
What is your criteria for a clutch hitter ?

Uh, someone who gets a hit in a clutch situation? :D:

gosox41
06-30-2003, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
neither is miles. he's not hitting as well as harris did in AAA and he's what - 27 or 28? if we can find someone who has as good or better offensive production than jimenez at 2B and makes fewer mental mistakes in the field and on the basepath, i'm all for it but we certainly don't have this player in our organization, alomar is not a long term solution, and i shudder somewhat when thinking about what kenny would give the marlins for castillo.

Then why not bring up Hummel? It looks like soime guys on this team are finally starting to hit a little bit so it can make up any difference between Jimenez and Hummel. I just can't stand the stupid baserunning more then anything of Jimenez. Once he gets on base he needs to figure out a way to stay on.

Bob

soxrme
06-30-2003, 09:36 AM
I will help him pack his bags if it gets him out of town sooner. Bring up Miles, Hummel or get Alomar. Do something.
Rios pinch hitting was a joke. I guess the grand slam by Olivo at the shrine and the homer against the giants wasn't enough.

Randar68
06-30-2003, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
clutch hitting is a myth.

LOL! Yeah, it's a myth because you have a hard time quantifying it. Avg w/ RISP, close and late, those are measureable stats that shows certain players are better hitters and players in clutch situations than other, over the course of their careers.

a myth? Convenient when you're trying to make a point, that you can discount something as a myth with no proof or explaination...

Gumshoe
06-30-2003, 10:30 AM
You guys are harsh on D'Angelo and I think, although he has made some mistakes, it is for little reason. I know he dropped a ball here, made an errant throw there, and made a bad baserunning play in Arizona. I still don't fault him for the Minnesota play. The Sox were scrounging for a run and they couldn't put together a legitimate hit that inning --- Thomas had an infield single, Jimenez was on, and Ordonez hit a blooper to right that just happened to fall in. Not one of those was a legitimate RBI hit. You guys were just VERY critical and wanted to blame someone. The fact of the matter is that Jimenez carried us offensively early on with Carlos Lee and Loaiza. If not for them, we would have started out ATROCIOUSLY, not just under expectations.

Look at D'Angelo yesterday. 0-2. More importantly, though, his OBP was .500! He walks a lot, he makes a lot of tough plays in the field that he NEVER gets credit for. There is no WAY Harris is a better fielder than he is. Let's let him go a full season and see where he is. Valentin is playing good short right now. Now the TINKERER has Jimenez at third. This is crazy. Let's just play the guys who have been playing and be done with it. I'm not a believer until we are above .500, but I am a believer in D'Angelo, who has been unfairly picked on buy fickle Sox fans.

Gum