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View Full Version : Damaso Marte: Sox Closer


ChiSox14305635
06-27-2003, 10:33 PM
I like the sound of it. What I don't like is having to see our current closer blow another one. Granted, Gordon loaded the bases, but with a 2 run lead, you expect your closer to hang on to the lead. Even with a seeing eye single by Alou, he didn't get the job done. Disagree with me if you must, but the guy has been a liability. #43 closing out games would put me at serious ease.

ilsox7
06-27-2003, 10:37 PM
Why can't we just enjoy a HUGE win over the Cubs? :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

Fridaythe13thJason
06-27-2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
I like the sound of it. What I don't like is having to see our current closer blow another one. Granted, Gordon loaded the bases, but with a 2 run lead, you expect your closer to hang on to the lead. Even with a seeing eye single by Alou, he didn't get the job done. Disagree with me if you must, but the guy has been a liability. #43 closing out games would put me at serious ease.

My lord, I'll disagree with you...I don't think any closer is expected to get out of a bases loaded, 0 outs jam to close a game. Would it be nice? Sure, but its just asking quite a bit. I think he did a pretty good job.

He is 11 of 13 in Save opportunities...people just want to complain.

ChiSox14305635
06-27-2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by ilsox7
Why can't we just enjoy a HUGE win over the Cubs? :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:



Don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled we won today. But the moment Koch trotted in from the bullpen, I knew this was a tie game, minimum. What happens if he does that tomorrow, and Jose can't bail him out. Let Damaso take the job now while Koch works himself back to his Blue Jay days. Then we'll see from there.

ilsox7
06-27-2003, 10:46 PM
Well, Marte was unavailable today for starters. Plus, bases loaded and no one out versus the middle of a major leagu line-up, only giving up 2 runs was pretty damn good imo.

JC456
06-27-2003, 10:49 PM
Do you have the numbers for the # of inherited runners allowed to score between all of the sox releivers? What has Marte actually achieved. How many save opportunities and blows does Marte have compared to Koch? Marte gave up a two run double to Minnesota which tied the game the other night, that eventually cost us that game with Koch giving up a home run. Marte does not have the velocity to be a closer, nor does he have the mentality. Koch is the closer, just like Foule was last year before they screwed with him. Now look at him in Oakland. Closers need work, they don't pictch often enough when your team is losing. How many save opportunities has he blown in 13 attempts? 2.

voodoochile
06-27-2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled we won today. But the moment Koch trotted in from the bullpen, I knew this was a tie game, minimum. What happens if he does that tomorrow, and Jose can't bail him out. Let Damaso take the job now while Koch works himself back to his Blue Jay days. Then we'll see from there.

How about instead of that, we convince our fearless leader to bring him to start the ninth unless there is a very tough LH out he wants Marte to pitch to first?

The tie wasn't Koch's fault. That was ALL on JM. If Koch does the same thing he did but starts the inning - K, Flyout, seeing-eye single, ground-out - the Sox win it after 8.5.

I'm not complaining, I am happy with the win, but Koch has done his job this year. Yeah, he has struggled while doing it, but he hasn't blown a save in how long? 2 months? Maybe we all should just stock up on Tums and give Billy the ball...

ChiSox14305635
06-27-2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
How about instead of that, we convince our fearless leader to bring him to start the ninth unless there is a very tough LH out he wants Marte to pitch to first?

The tie wasn't Koch's fault. That was ALL on JM. If Koch does the same thing he did but starts the inning - K, Flyout, seeing-eye single, ground-out - the Sox win it after 8.5.

I'm not complaining, I am happy with the win, but Koch has done his job this year. Yeah, he has struggled while doing it, but he hasn't blown a save in how long? 2 months? Maybe we all should just stock up on Tums and give Billy the ball...



Looks like I stand alone on this one. I'm tired of watching Koch come in and walk one or 2, and we have to sweat out every win (or loss). I miss Keith Foulke.

Fridaythe13thJason
06-27-2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Looks like I stand alone on this one. I'm tired of watching Koch come in and walk one or 2, and we have to sweat out every win (or loss). I miss Keith Foulke.

I think the difference is the rest of us just care about wins...not stats, and not our stomachs.

FarWestChicago
06-27-2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Looks like I stand alone on this one. I'm tired of watching Koch come in and walk one or 2, and we have to sweat out every win (or loss). I miss Keith Foulke. If Foulke never made you sweat, you are missing some glands.

MHOUSE
06-28-2003, 10:51 AM
Koch is 11-14 in save opps
Marte is 4-10 IIRC

Giving up all those inherited runners in the 6th and 7th innings count too. He is lights-out when he starts an inning for the most part, but he can't come in and put out someone else's fire very well. Why in the heck did JM leave Flash in for the 9th with Koch ready? Then he loads the bases before going to him? RIDICULOUS! JM needs to go. Had Jose not won it and had it not been vs. the Cubs, this would be a completely different story. Koch did well only giving up the one single with bases loaded no outs. They weren't his runners and it's expecting a lot to ask him to get out of it unscathed.

kevingrt
06-28-2003, 10:57 AM
Okay Damaso is probably doing 2nd worst out out of our 3 relievers (I don't think Gary Glover has pitched in 50 years). But really I say keep Koch in the closer role until he gets out of this dead-arm period or at least till the All-Star Break, and give him a chance. If not then Jerry can try Damaso and Flash in the closers role.

For now though keep Koch in the closers role and just make sure you have Marte or Flash in the bullpen ready to go in case Billy really comes under tough times.

gosox41
06-28-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by SoCalUIC
My lord, I'll disagree with you...I don't think any closer is expected to get out of a bases loaded, 0 outs jam to close a game. Would it be nice? Sure, but its just asking quite a bit. I think he did a pretty good job.

He is 11 of 13 in Save opportunities...people just want to complain.

Again that is the most overrated stat. Why do people keep bringing this up like it means something? Remeber at least 2 of those saves he was brought in the game with 2 outs and no one on in the 9th inning to get the last out of the game. BFD.

Bob

gosox41
06-28-2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
Looks like I stand alone on this one. I'm tired of watching Koch come in and walk one or 2, and we have to sweat out every win (or loss). I miss Keith Foulke.

I'm with you. Billy Koch is overrated.

Bob

Fridaythe13thJason
06-28-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Again that is the most overrated stat. Why do people keep bringing this up like it means something? Remeber at least 2 of those saves he was brought in the game with 2 outs and no one on in the 9th inning to get the last out of the game. BFD.

Bob

How is that an overrated stat? In fact, it might be the only stat that matters for a closer. The closers goal is to get saves when your team puts you in in a save situation. Ks, WHIP, ERA...really don't mean anything.

lowesox
06-28-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
If Foulke never made you sweat, you are missing some glands.

Aside for his last season in Chicago Foulke was as steady as closers come.

MisterB
06-28-2003, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
But really I say keep Koch in the closer role until he gets out of this dead-arm period or at least till the All-Star Break, and give him a chance.

This is my theory on Koch, and why this is no 'dead-arm period'.

At some point, the coaches in Toronto figured that Koch's mechanics were such that he was risking serious arm injury. In spring training they try altering his mechanics to something more sound, but find that this causes his velocity to drop severely. Realizing that with his shaky control and lack of development of his other pitches, his high-velocity fastball was the only thing making him effective. They then scrap the experiment, return him to his old mechanics, and decide to trade him at the first opportunity, hopefully before he injures himself.

So he gets shipped to Oakland, where the coaches make the same discovery, and decide to move him before he gets injured and/or hits arbitration.

So he comes to the White Sox, who almost immediately sign him to a 2-year contract. In spring training, Don Cooper catches on to Koch's bad mechanics and makes changes, but unlike Toronto and Oakland, Cooper insists on Koch sticking with the new mechanics, which has rendered him mostly ineffective.

So there is no dead arm, Koch's velocity was entirely tied to his mechanics, which were unsound from the start, and he will not be effective again unless he 1) returns to his old mechanics, 2) improves his control considerably or 3) really learns how to throw his other pitches. Couple this with his contract, and we're likely to see at least a season and a half more of crap pitching from he of the bad facial hair. Enjoy!

FarWestChicago
06-28-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Aside for his last season in Chicago Foulke was as steady as closers come. Oh, my memory must be failing me. Who was that relief pitcher on the mound in Game 1 of the 2000 playoffs? Or in the infamous Twinkie Dome Melt Down the next season? I guess it was Gascan Howry. :?: