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Gumshoe
06-26-2003, 11:08 AM
I'm sick of seeing quotes about Jimenez. He's about the only guy that has consistently hit all year and you guys bitch about him. He has also made many plays that a guy like Ray Durham would have no chance. Were you watching Tuesday? Great play.

Furthermore, I don't know if you were watching last night, but that sawed-off bloop that Magglio hit was by no means an easy one to score on. When a guy doesn't hit a clear single, and you are worried about possibly getting picked off if you leave too early from second, why would you go for a run with 1 out? DJ and Hawk were scrounging when they said "You have to get 4 hits in an inning to score" ... well yeah, when they are all virtuall infield singles and none of them were hit that well or were not at someone! G-d. if Jimenez gets picked off at 2nd and that guy catches it in right (who has a cannon, btw), THAT is unforgivable. Giving your guys a chance to drive a run in with bases loaded and 1 out is SMART.

I still think the best call ever would have been a squeeze play with 1 out and Lee up. NO ONE would have looked for it! it would have been sweet. Manuel's gotta get balls. Can it get ANY worse for him? Pull some sh*t, Jerry. Now on to see if we can win the series. Ever notice that when the Cubs win, we win, when they lose, we lose? Hmmm...

Gumshoe

DonkeyKongerko
06-26-2003, 11:10 AM
I think the squeeze requires someone on the team being able to bunt.

CHISOXFAN13
06-26-2003, 11:22 AM
A consistent hitter doesn't see a .300 average slip to .260 in three weeks.

Viva Magglio
06-26-2003, 11:22 AM
Yeah, Jimenez may be a solid hitter, but that is cancelled out by his baserunning gaffes.

soxfan45
06-26-2003, 11:40 AM
I don't think anyone has said that he is a bad hitter, but his lack of concentration day in and day out is costing us games.

1. Consistant inability to put the ball down via bunt by the #2 hitter is unacceptable. (it in endemic of this White Sox team however)

2. Not making routine plays. He is awful to his right.

3. An uncanny ability to screwup when the game is on the line.
a. dropped fly ball in cleveland
b. botched double-play against boston
c. a number of pickoffs
d. no understanding or feel of what it takes to be a baserunner
e. a lethargical approach to running the bases.

Certainly this guy doesn't deserve to hit in the #2 hole if he does play. I do admit that he has one of the higher averages on the team so its hard to take him out, but we need to reward good decisionmaking....thats why Graffanino should be given the nod.

balz1472
06-26-2003, 11:41 AM
J I M E N E Z I S C L U E L E S S!

Plain and simple fact. I played baseball until I was 25 years old and I can tell you that the first thing you are taught is to read the ball off the bat. No matter if it is a line drive with less than two outs or a fly ball to the outfield. He has cost us in several occassions just in the Twins series alone... (1) on a weak liner to 1B when he was doubled-up off of second base and (2) when he cost us the game last night on the weak fly ball to right. If he read that ball right, he would have been 1/2 way home before the ball even got into the hand of the right-fielder.

I like his hitting and most of his defense, but his base running is just bull *****. Don't get me wrong, the whole team has to go back to square one on baserunning. BTW, Did they even have a spring training this year?

A.T. Money
06-26-2003, 12:02 PM
Gumshoe, Jimenez's latest blunder in last night's game is just the icing on the cake. It's the last straw. I'm just tired of his laziness and poor offensive awareness.

As balz1472 pointed out, you're taught from any early age to get a good read on balls hit. You wait for liners to get through, advance on a ground hit behind you, etc. Jimenez didn't get a good read, and it was the ballgame.

boog_alou
06-26-2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
I'm sick of seeing quotes about Jimenez. He's about the only guy that has consistently hit all year and you guys bitch about him.
Consistently hit all year? The stats don't bear that out:

April
OBP .396
SLG .549
OPS .945

May
OBP .375
SLG .365
OPS .740

June
OBP .226
SLG .342
OPS .568

One excellent month, one ok month and one horrible month does not equal "consistent hitting all year long"

FarmerAndy
06-26-2003, 12:07 PM
Don't worry Gumshoe, I was expecting this to happen.

When the season is going rough, it is common practice for Sox fans to pick a scapegoat to blame all of our problems on. With Royce Clayton now gone, and the Sox still a disapointment, fans were confused. They can't come to terms with the fact that this whole team is completely disfunctional. There has to be somebody to blame for our problems. So now Jimenez is the new Royce Clayton. Never mind the fact that our starters are inconsistent. Never mind the fact that the bullpen is unstable. Nevermind the fact that Billy Koch sucks. Nevermind the fact that Jose Valentin totally sucks. Nevermind the fact that Paul Konerko sucks even worse. Forget all of this. IT'S ALL D'ANGELO'S FAULT!

Now, I'm not saying that Jimenez doesn't deserve some jeers. Royce Clayton certainly deserved alot of the jeers he received. But the problem is that once some of you folks have chosen who the scapegoat will be, you become complete morons. It will only be a matter of days before you come up with a cute little nickname for D'Ang. You will never recognize when he does something good. You will think you are really funny when you waste space on the board by making the same old jokes about getting ice cream. You will cut other players alot slack for their blunders, while somehow blaming all the teams problems on one player. It's already starting to happen. How many D'Angelo threads are going right now?

Congrats D'Ang! From now on you have the distinct honor of having everything you do wrong magnified a thousand times more than your other crappy mates in Sox uniforms.

gosox41
06-26-2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
Don't worry Gumshoe, I was expecting this to happen.

When the season is going rough, it is common practice for Sox fans to pick a scapegoat to blame all of our problems on. With Royce Clayton now gone, and the Sox still a disapointment, fans were confused. They can't come to terms with the fact that this whole team is completely disfunctional. There has to be somebody to blame for our problems. So now Jimenez is the new Royce Clayton. Never mind the fact that our starters are inconsistent. Never mind the fact that the bullpen is unstable. Nevermind the fact that Billy Koch sucks. Nevermind the fact that Jose Valentin totally sucks. Nevermind the fact that Paul Konerko sucks even worse. Forget all of this. IT'S ALL D'ANGELO'S FAULT!

Now, I'm not saying that Jimenez doesn't deserve some jeers. Royce Clayton certainly deserved alot of the jeers he received. But the problem is that once some of you folks have chosen who the scapegoat will be, you become complete morons. It will only be a matter of days before you come up with a cute little nickname for D'Ang. You will never recognize when he does something good. You will think you are really funny when you waste space on the board by making the same old jokes about getting ice cream. You will cut other players alot slack for their blunders, while somehow blaming all the teams problems on one player. It's already starting to happen. How many D'Angelo threads are going right now?

Congrats D'Ang! From now on you have the distinct honor of having everything you do wrong magnified a thousand times more than your other crappy mates in Sox uniforms.

Actually I want to get my list of scapegoats right in order for you.

1. Kenny Williams-He brought in Koch, extended Konerko's contract, amde 3 bad big trades 3 years in a row.

2. Paul Konerko-Big disappointment. Proved me 100% right of why the Sox shouldn't have signed him when I said so at the end of last season.

3. Billy Koch-Complete joke. Closer is the most overrated role in baseball and he's proving what happens when you value it for more then it's worth. I also mentioned overuse when the Sox first got him.

4. Jerry Manuel-Inconsistent use of the bullpen, no set lineup, no fire, team has no fundamentals.

5. Jimenez-Can't run the bases wort s***.

6. Ordonez-Having a good year, but not a Magglio Ordonez year.

Bob

FarmerAndy
06-26-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Actually I want to get my list of scapegoats right in order for you.

1. Kenny Williams-He brought in Koch, extended Konerko's contract, amde 3 bad big trades 3 years in a row.

2. Paul Konerko-Big disappointment. Proved me 100% right of why the Sox shouldn't have signed him when I said so at the end of last season.

3. Billy Koch-Complete joke. Closer is the most overrated role in baseball and he's proving what happens when you value it for more then it's worth. I also mentioned overuse when the Sox first got him.

4. Jerry Manuel-Inconsistent use of the bullpen, no set lineup, no fire, team has no fundamentals.

5. Jimenez-Can't run the bases wort s***.

6. Ordonez-Having a good year, but not a Magglio Ordonez year.

Bob


That's what I like to see, Bob!

I certainly don't want to excuse Jimenez for his blunders. I just hate when people start to focus in on one player, when the blame needs to be spread around the table.

gosox41
06-26-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
That's what I like to see, Bob!

I certainly don't want to excuse Jimenez for his blunders. I just hate when people start to focus in on one player, when the blame needs to be spread around the table.

I'm an Equal Opportunity Hater. I try to call them as I see them, though I wish I were wrong more often. I don't want to be seen as a cynic, but am just being honest with what I see from certain players. I have't liked the Koch deal since the day it was made and never liked the Konerko signing forthe amount of money he got (thoguh I never thought he'd be this bad.)

I wish I were wrong and in first place with these 2 guys leading the way, but to me certain moves are obviously bad.

Bob

Gumshoe
06-26-2003, 02:21 PM
Keep it real, Farmer Andy. Cheers.

You guys have forgotten all the basehits with runners in scoring position against Toronto, the homeruns at cleveland, the ability to go up the middle and throw people out that Ray Durham can only dream of. Seriously, I see his lapses occasionally but those are so much fewer and further between than his great hits or plays. Too even mention Royce Clayton with DJ is ridiculous. RC was a cancer and not as good at anything as Jimenez.

SoxDemon, you defending Koch in that other thread lost all respect from me. The last straw. Hahaha. The only last straw should be for JM. How else can you explain the performance for 3 years? KW and JM. MOrons. If the lineup is different every day, do you expect guys to hit? They need solidarity, not shameless, ignorant indifference.

G