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View Full Version : Please Trade Koch!


ChiSox14305635
06-25-2003, 11:53 PM
How many games is this guy gonna cost us? Granted, Marte gave up the tying run on the first pitch to Jones, & Gordon made it interesting in the top of the 10th. But the big difference is: THEY GOT THE GUYS THEY NEEDED! This douche comes in and can't even get 2 hitters! 3 years running Kenny gets fleeced on a major trade!

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

MHOUSE
06-25-2003, 11:55 PM
Doesn't Manuel watch the games? Koch has lost two extra-inning games in the last couple weeks. So why go to him? Use him to CLOSE.

ChiSox14305635
06-25-2003, 11:59 PM
Wow, we need someone who can lead the league in saves.......wait a minute, we had him! His name was Keith Foulke. Koch isn't throwing over 92, walks as many as he strikes out, and doesn't believe in the 1-2-3 inning. He sucks, and gots to go!

A.T. Money
06-26-2003, 12:01 AM
Yeah that's it. It's Koch's fault the team blew the lead, and then failed to score on a single in the top of the 9th. Yeah, that's all Koch. :shakesheadindisbelief:

MarkEdward
06-26-2003, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Doesn't Manuel watch the games? Koch has lost two extra-inning games in the last couple weeks. So why go to him? Use him to CLOSE.

Um, who would you suggest going with in the 11th? Gary Glover? Rick White? David Sander? Those pitchers have been much worse than Koch (although Koch has been bad).

You can't pin this loss on Manuel. Blame it on a) Billy Koch and b) Kenny Williams for trading Keith Foulke.

ChiSox14305635
06-26-2003, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
Yeah that's it. It's Koch's fault the team blew the lead, and then failed to score on a single in the top of the 9th. Yeah, that's all Koch. :shakesheadindisbelief:



No, but when you come in and give up the GW homer after 1 batter, yeah, that is his fault! Gordon battled, as did Marte. Koch came in to a tie game, still with a chance for us to win it, and he blew it! Mr. Koch is the reason this one ends in an L.

MHOUSE
06-26-2003, 12:13 AM
Three of Koch's four losses are in extra-inning games. You woudl think that Manuel would know this and see the trend. I would rather have Glover, Sanders, or White (recently pitched very well) for the 11th. YES.

MarkEdward
06-26-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Three of Koch's four losses are in extra-inning games. You woudl think that Manuel would know this and see the trend. I would rather have Glover, Sanders, or White (recently pitched very well) for the 11th. YES.

If Manuel puts in anyone but Koch in the 11th, then all of WSI would've been bitching (and with good cause). White hasn't given up a run in the last three innings, and even though that's great for him, he's still very, very bad. Koch was our best option going into the 11th.

We really need Wunsch back. Right now, we have two reliable relievers: Gordon and Marte. Koch has been bad, Glover and Sanders very bad (should only be used in blowouts), and White shouldn't be on the roster.

MHOUSE
06-26-2003, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
If Manuel puts in anyone but Koch in the 11th, then all of WSI would've been bitching (and with good cause). White hasn't given up a run in the last three innings, and even though that's great for him, he's still very, very bad. Koch was our best option going into the 11th.

We really need Wunsch back. Right now, we have two reliable relievers: Gordon and Marte. Koch has been bad, Glover and Sanders very bad (should only be used in blowouts), and White shouldn't be on the roster.

I'd argue that had Manuel used Glover and Sanders more regularely so far this season then they wouldn't pitch so bad then they did come into games. You have to show confidence and trust all of your players and Manuel neglects half his bullpen and it shows. White has been bad on his own, but is turning it around. Glover and Sanders just don't look sharp. When they pitch regularly for a week then they look better. Relievers should pitch every 3 days or so. Glover hasn't pitched for 11 games!

Konerkoholic
06-26-2003, 12:53 AM
Koch didn't "cost" the Sox the game. The offense stopped scoring, the defense was atrocious, and Marte didn't do his job. If any one of these things had been done right, the Sox win the game. I find it hard to blame a guy who gives up a run in the 11th when the game should have been wrapped up much earlier.

DonkeyKongerko
06-26-2003, 01:06 AM
Koch doesn't know how to "pitch". He was a thrower in Toronto and a thrower in Oakland. Mysteriously he has suddenly lost 8-10mph on his fastball. Now he can't beat anyone with his fastball alone. Now we realize he'll never be a good "pitcher".

A.T. Money
06-26-2003, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic
Koch didn't "cost" the Sox the game. The offense stopped scoring, the defense was atrocious, and Marte didn't do his job. If any one of these things had been done right, the Sox win the game. I find it hard to blame a guy who gives up a run in the 11th when the game should have been wrapped up much earlier.

BRAVO!!! Someone in here has some sense!!!

Blaming Koch for the ELEVENTH inning is a laugh in itself. The game should have been over in 9. Period!

Kilroy
06-26-2003, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
BRAVO!!! Someone in here has some sense!!!

Blaming Koch for the ELEVENTH inning is a laugh in itself. The game should have been over in 9. Period!

When I heard Koch was in, I knew it was over. He's the equivalent of throwing in the towel.

Of course, he is not to blame.

Crede error leads to unearned run.
Marte can't keep inherited runners from scoring.
Duh'Angelo can't score from second on a bloop single.

MarkEdward
06-26-2003, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
I'd argue that had Manuel used Glover and Sanders more regularely so far this season then they wouldn't pitch so bad then they did come into games. You have to show confidence and trust all of your players and Manuel neglects half his bullpen and it shows.

Because half of his bullpen sucks! Glover and Sanders obviously aren't going to pitch as much as Marte and Gordon because they aren't as good as Marte and Gordon!

You're post is the equivalent of stating "gee, I wonder why Marvin Benard doesn't get more ABs over Barry Bonds."

bobj4400
06-26-2003, 10:58 AM
Have we updated the "Terrible Koch Outings" board to 6 yet?


My roommate and I were watching the game last night. When we saw Koch warming up to start the 11th, we simultaneously said, "Uh oh." I am sure most Sox fans watching the game last night had the same reation...

Dadawg_77
06-26-2003, 11:27 AM
I love the BS defending Koch saying he needs to pitch in saves situations, if you are a stud relief pitcher, you should be able to get people out whenever. Koch is sucking more then Jasmine St Clair did in her last movie. The god damn dolts running this team think they know how to put a winning team together but all they have done is take a young winning team and make them a tired old suck ass team. Can we have a nuke the Sox management tag? Then they should be able to start all over. God this is ****ing pathetic baseball organization from the GM who can't remember names to a manager who has no idea on how to use a pen.

:selljerry :firejerry

:KW

Yeah you too, *******. hey how come there isn't a fire Kenny tag?

sorry, ranting is done for now.

A.T. Money
06-26-2003, 12:10 PM
There's nothing wrong with getting all nervous when Koch comes in. He's the closer, and he's going to put people on base. But the chances are good that he'll still nail it down. For those of you that find that unreasonable, I have two words for you.

Bobby Thigpen

It was textbook Bobby Thigpen to walk the first guy. In a 1-run game, you nearly had a nervous breakdown. But he still managed to get out of it, because the White Sox were a pretty good defensive ball club. We also executed the necessary fundamentals. We were good at base running, etc. We did the necessary things to win in 9 innings.

My point is, the game was over BEFORE Koch even went in there. You know if Koch is coming in, he's good for an inning and that's pretty much it. Obviously Manuel has no faith in White, Sanders, or Glover. So even if we escape the 11th, we're totally screwed if we don't score in the 12th. We had a chance to win in 9 innings. We failed. Expecting to beat Minnesota in their hellhole of a stadium in extra innings is ridiculous. Size up our pen with theirs. It doesn't compare.

gosox41
06-26-2003, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
Yeah that's it. It's Koch's fault the team blew the lead, and then failed to score on a single in the top of the 9th. Yeah, that's all Koch. :shakesheadindisbelief:

It's Koch's fault he gave up the HR and cost the team the game. The fact that his pitching has gone downhill as of late further proves it was a bad trade and KW is an idiot.

Bob

Hangar18
06-26-2003, 01:51 PM
with the exception of ONE TIME, I believe against the Orioles,
where he mowed down the batters 1-2-3, and had a dazzling
curve ball, thats been Koch 2003. Thats it. Every other
outing has been ulcers, walks, line-drive hits, Homers. This
guys the worst ive seen in a long long time. His times
done here.

Gumshoe
06-26-2003, 02:09 PM
Hangar, you are right on. Orioles was the only game he looked like a 4 MIL per year reliever. otherwise, he has sucked.

SoxDemon, why are you mentioning other things? Sure, the Sox may have lost after that. That's not the point. The point is that he has blown saves, he has blown games, he has a 2-4 record. He is totally unreliable. They should just put him on the DL and admit that they traded for a guy who was semi-injured and Beane duped'em again. BUt KW won't do that. Dummy.

I would agree if Koch were like 11 of 12 in saves where he caused heart attacks, but the fact is he has 4 losses and he's blown just as many games as he's saved.
FACT.

Gumshoe

Foulke You
06-26-2003, 02:56 PM
I like Billy Koch, I really do. He seems to have a great attitude and is a popular clubhouse guy. But the fact remains that he has not been sharp at all. This isn't the same Billy Koch that pitched in Toronto and Oakland. That Koch threw 99-101mph bullets right past guys. The Sox version of Koch throws 92 mph and can't locate his hard slider at all which causes teams to sit on his straight fastball which isn't that fast anymore. I don't know if it is the new mechanics Cooper has him using to save his arm or what but this obviously isn't the same pitcher.

gosox41
06-26-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
Hangar, you are right on. Orioles was the only game he looked like a 4 MIL per year reliever. otherwise, he has sucked.

SoxDemon, why are you mentioning other things? Sure, the Sox may have lost after that. That's not the point. The point is that he has blown saves, he has blown games, he has a 2-4 record. He is totally unreliable. They should just put him on the DL and admit that they traded for a guy who was semi-injured and Beane duped'em again. BUt KW won't do that. Dummy.

I would agree if Koch were like 11 of 12 in saves where he caused heart attacks, but the fact is he has 4 losses and he's blown just as many games as he's saved.
FACT.

Gumshoe

:KW
I'm going to show all you Sox fans what a great GM I am by continuing to play all the underperforming guys I have acquired. After all we're not paying Billy $10.5 mill ove the next 2 years to pitch garbage innings.

Bob

MetalliSox
06-26-2003, 05:56 PM
Ya know, if we trade Koch, he will probably end up saving 50 games with an ERA around 2.00. Typical Sox karma!

gosox41
06-26-2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox14305635
How many games is this guy gonna cost us? Granted, Marte gave up the tying run on the first pitch to Jones, & Gordon made it interesting in the top of the 10th. But the big difference is: THEY GOT THE GUYS THEY NEEDED! This douche comes in and can't even get 2 hitters! 3 years running Kenny gets fleeced on a major trade!

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Do you think anyone in baseball realistically wants this guy. The Red Sox have been mentioned a lot, but I doubt they'd be that dumb. Epstein is a big numbers guy and isn't going to waste his time on garbage.

Bob