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View Full Version : So what did Manuel do this time?


MarqSox
06-25-2003, 11:38 PM
Aright, let's hear it. How did Manuel manage to lose this one? He must've done something ...

Tragg
06-25-2003, 11:43 PM
Nope, not his fault tonight. I do look forward to the method by which Jiminez will be held accountable for his baserunning.
I hope he starts Konerko in one of the next few games. Eventually we will need him; he doesn't deserve manuel's permanent doghouse.

MHOUSE
06-25-2003, 11:45 PM
Use Marte and Koch for the second game in a row. Let Gordon get deep into trouble and keeping going. Let Koch trot out for the 11th and blow it as always. He let Maggs rest during a crucial game. Yeah lets sit our best player when we're trying to win a series against Minnesota! If Marte isn't one of the most overworked relievers in baseball then I don't know who is. 2.1 IP today. We have other guys in the bullpen? Use someone else once in a while. It's been 11 games since Gary Glover pitched! 11 GAMES! ARGH! :angry:

FJA
06-25-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Use Marte and Koch for the second game in a row. Let Gordon get deep into trouble and keeping going. Let Koch trot out for the 11th and blow it as always. He let Maggs rest during a crucial game. Yeah lets sit our best player when we're trying to win a series against Minnesota! If Marte isn't one of the most overworked relievers in baseball then I don't know who is. 2.1 IP today. We have other guys in the bullpen? Use someone else once in a while. It's been 11 games since Gary Glover pitched! 11 GAMES! ARGH! :angry:

I am also a little worried about the bullpen, but I don't tag this loss on Manuel. This one's on DJ if I have to choose.

MarqSox
06-25-2003, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
We have other guys in the bullpen? Use someone else once in a while. It's been 11 games since Gary Glover pitched! 11 GAMES! ARGH! :angry:

So you're telling me, after he brought in Glover and he gave up a homer in the 9th, you wouldn't have blamed Manuel for bringing in Gary Glover? Maybe you wouldn't, but someone would. All I'm saying is, at some point we've got to accept that the players lose most of the games, not Manuel.

MHOUSE
06-25-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by FJA
I am also a little worried about the bullpen, but I don't tag this loss on Manuel. This one's on DJ if I have to choose.

I am really really worried about the bullpen. How can the other guys perform when it's only ever Marte, Gordon, and Koch? It's ridiculous. Might as well carry 8 pitchers. But WHY REST MAGGS NOW? Seriously, our best player needs to be out there in arguably the most important game this month. DJ is the laziest player in MLB. The Padres were right. I thought he might change and be good if given the chance, but lately he is slumping and still braindead.

Tragg
06-25-2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
So you're telling me, after he brought in Glover and he gave up a homer in the 9th, you wouldn't have blamed Manuel for bringing in Gary Glover? Maybe you wouldn't, but someone would. All I'm saying is, at some point we've got to accept that the players lose most of the games, not Manuel.

Just wait until tomorrow when neither Gordon, Koch or Marte can be used: then you'll hear some real bitching about overall bullpen mismanagement.

MarqSox
06-25-2003, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Just wait until tomorrow when neither Gordon, Koch or Marte can be used: then you'll hear some real bitching about overall bullpen mismanagement.

You're right ... but instead of blaming Manuel for bullpen "mismanagement," how about we blame Valentin and DJ for failing to get a hit? Either of them come through and the bullpen isn't an issue.

Viva Magglio
06-25-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Aright, let's hear it. How did Manuel manage to lose this one? He must've done something ...

He wrote "JIMENEZ" on the lineup card. How's that?

MHOUSE
06-25-2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
You're right ... but instead of blaming Manuel for bullpen "mismanagement," how about we blame Valentin and DJ for failing to get a hit? Either of them come through and the bullpen isn't an issue.

I was so upset when the loaded them with one out and then biffed a great chance to win it. I was pounding the table. Lee nearly grounded into ANOTHER bases loaded DP earlier in the game, but ran it out.

Tragg
06-26-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
You're right ... but instead of blaming Manuel for bullpen "mismanagement," how about we blame Valentin and DJ for failing to get a hit? Either of them come through and the bullpen isn't an issue.

I think there's been plenty of blame launched toward tonight's goat, Mr Jiminez

And I think Manuel's bullpen use is questionable. Frankly, White has pitched real well lately. Forgetting the dinger Koch gave up, he uses Koch in a non-save situation with plenty of available pitchers, including White who has pitched well lately; now, we have to put White probably in the closer spot tomorrow. Hell Marte in the 6th is questionable, if he's really the set-up guy. Glad to see him pitch well tonight.

ChiSox14305635
06-26-2003, 12:05 AM
He let Jimenez bat in the 11th vs Guardado (Graffy would've been alot better), and he gave the ball to Koch in the bottom of the 11th. Both suck.

MHOUSE
06-26-2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Forgetting the dinger Koch gave up, he uses Koch in a non-save situation with plenty of available pitchers, including White who has pitched well lately; now, we have to put White probably in the closer spot tomorrow.

Koch has been in 36 games and less than half have been save opportunities. I know he needs his work, but this is ridiculous.

TRL
06-26-2003, 12:23 AM
It would be nice to have a healthy Kelly Wunsch.

One thing I don't understand is why Sanders is on this team? He hardly ever pitchers and doesn't seem to be that effective when he does.

MHOUSE
06-26-2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by TRL
It would be nice to have a healthy Kelly Wunsch.

One thing I don't understand is why Sanders is on this team? He hardly ever pitchers and doesn't seem to be that effective when he does.

Why not Porzio and/or Ginter?

jeremyb1
06-26-2003, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
I am really really worried about the bullpen. How can the other guys perform when it's only ever Marte, Gordon, and Koch? It's ridiculous.

i agree with you to a certain extent here. i certainly feel like glover should've had more regular work this season. ever since the beginning of the season he seems to have been tabbed as the long relief guy which doesn't make any sense since the reason he's in the pen and not starting again this season is because he's proven time and time again he's most effective in short stints.

however, i don't feel this same argument applies to white and sanders. sanders was called up towards the middle of the season as the 12th pitcher on the staff. he's an inexperienced rookie and since he hasn't pitched exceptionally, manuel can't really afford to pitch him in close games. with white, i don't see how anyone can deny that early in the season he was given opportunity after opportunity and proved unable to get the job done. that doesn't mean he shouldn't been given any more chances for the rest of the season, but manuel can't just start throwing him into the fire. the guy's era is astronomical for a reason.

since we've determined that glover isn't shrap because manuel failed to give him regular work, and white and sanders can't really be trusted in close games we're in a lot of trouble. the reason is that since we're fond of scoring fewer than five runs most games, virtually every single game is close and therefore its hard for manuel to find opportunties to give these guys innings without blowing games.

brewcrew/chisox
06-26-2003, 02:26 AM
Mags was sick tonight...fever....aches and pains in his joints.

That's why Manuel sat him. And then Mags comes in anyway and goes 2 for 3.

mike squires
06-26-2003, 02:45 AM
Unbelievable. I didn't even watch the Twins at bats toward the later innings cause I new something bad was gonna happen. I turn it back and there are the Twins all smiles at home plate.

I was wandering if Sanders and Glover was on the team. I had forgotten all about Glover.

This was a tough loss.

ssang
06-26-2003, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Aright, let's hear it. How did Manuel manage to lose this one? He must've done something ...


Manuel DID NOT contribute to this loss. The bullpen is very thin and going with Koch was the right call. Koch is just simply unreliable. If we ever get good or close to the playoffs...Koch will give me a heart attack and I'm a 23 yr old non-smoker! This loss can be attributed tot he Sox putrid timely hitting and the usual pathetic baserunning by Jimenez. Manuel needs to bench this guy tomorrow.

Hangar18
06-26-2003, 08:59 AM
NO. THis was JERRYS FAULT AGAIN. HE DOES NOT KNOW
How to manage a team by playing the "hot hand". Martes
been awful w men on (coming into situation) and we know
Koch and Gordon suck. I wouldve made Garland get himself
out of the situation before starting the bullpen

Kilroy
06-26-2003, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
NO. THis was JERRYS FAULT AGAIN. HE DOES NOT KNOW
How to manage a team by playing the "hot hand". Martes
been awful w men on (coming into situation) and we know
Koch and Gordon suck. I wouldve made Garland get himself
out of the situation before starting the bullpen

And if he'd left Garland in and Garland gave up the lead, it would be the "he doesn't know when to pull a bleepin pitcher" thread.

If you want to find reasons to blame JM, its no great task to do so...

THE_HOOTER
06-26-2003, 09:58 AM
I really think they should start Harris at second, and put Rowand in Center.

Jimenez causes us so many problems, it would be a plus.

Harris is a very good defensive 2nd baseman.

Rowand does seem more comfortable at the plate.

I have had enough of Jimenez-I think he is just dumb.

lowesox
06-26-2003, 11:10 AM
Ya, I want to get Glover going in more games. I think he can be reliable. 11 games is too long for him not to pitch. And Marte is getting burnt out.

I agreed with taking Garland out when we did, but I was hoping for Glover. Especially since we had a solid lead at the time.

Clarkdog
06-26-2003, 11:15 AM
The goat was Jimenez. No doubt. He could have scored in the 9th if he was aggressive. Game over.

As for Manuel, I still don't understand why he likes to trot his closer out in tie situtations. Koch is good for one inning (and even that is questionable). But in last night's game, he'd have to pitch at least two. I knew the minute Koch was put in the game that it was over. Koch was used in a situation where his odds of succeeding were slim at best.

Jerko
06-26-2003, 11:40 AM
I always rip JM, and I guess if I wanted to, I could rip him for his choice/order/rotation of pitchers, but I won't today. DJ is a terrible baserunner. We know this. We have seen it for 3 months. The manager should also know this. Maybe a pinch runner? I know we have no speed on this team, but I'd rather have a smart slow guy on the paths instead of a dumb slow guy. ALso, don't the runners, especially BAD ones, look at the base coaches anymore? I'm sure Kimm had a better view of that ball falling than DJ did, was he waving him on or just standing there? That's one of the first things I was taught in little league! Even our softball team does it. If I'm on second and there's a blooper that I can't read that well, one of my teammates is coaching third yelling score, score. If nitwits like us can figure it out, a MLB team should be able to as well.

Hangar18
06-26-2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy
And if he'd left Garland in and Garland gave up the lead, it would be the "he doesn't know when to pull a bleepin pitcher" thread.

If you want to find reasons to blame JM, its no great task to do so...

.......THEN, if (me being Manuel) left Garland in there, and he
Surrendered the lead, and the Media is asking why I didnt go
to the Pen, Id have said point Blank, that I didnt trust my
bullpen, esp the last few games theyve come in with men
ala Marte. Koch is indeed a one inning pitcher, and only
if NOONES on base, AND if we have more than a 2 run lead (doesnt sound much like a relief pitcher does he?)

mike squires
06-26-2003, 12:06 PM
Noone has mentioned Crede's error. Didn't that cost us a few runs. I didn't see it. What happened?

gosox41
06-26-2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Aright, let's hear it. How did Manuel manage to lose this one? He must've done something ...

He pitched Koch when the game was close. Not a good idea. Stick him in for garbage innings.

While I'm at it, JM should feel free to use Glover once in awhile. Put him on a work schedule like Koch's and he'd be much more effective then Koch.

Bob