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View Full Version : If Billy Koch Has to Stroll in Tonight...


Procol Harum
06-24-2003, 10:11 AM
....in the 9th inning at the Baggy Dome and you begin to reach for your Tums, take heart in these facts, beloved Sox fan: not only did Keith Foulke register his 20th save last night (as pointed out in a thread by Bisco Stu), but so did Montreal's own Rocky Biddle. Just a little something to ponder (and I point this out as someone inclined to support the Foulke/Koch deal when it occured...).

Why does this always happen to us?? :whiner:

:KW
"Can't tell you."

Tragg
06-24-2003, 10:16 AM
On the bright side, we needed more than Tums whenever Foulke tried to close one out in the Metrodome. But he's had a fine year.

We underutilized biddle, for sure, and he had a lot of supporters on this board;

Lip Man 1
06-24-2003, 11:00 AM
I don't know.....maybe The Curse Of The Black Sox?

Seriously that what happens when you have incompetent, inexperienced people manning high positions in the front office. You'd think the Sox would realize that having a Pat Gillick, Walt Jocketty or Brian Sabean in the front office / GM spot would only be a benefit.

Lip

gosox41
06-24-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
....in the 9th inning at the Baggy Dome and you begin to reach for your Tums, take heart in these facts, beloved Sox fan: not only did Keith Foulke register his 20th save last night (as pointed out in a thread by Bisco Stu), but so did Montreal's own Rocky Biddle. Just a little something to ponder (and I point this out as someone inclined to support the Foulke/Koch deal when it occured...).

Why does this always happen to us?? :whiner:


I'm not at all surprised this happened to us. I said at the time trading Foulke was a big mistake. Look at tehe stats. Any way you want to analyze it, the biggest thing a pitcher needs to is to keep men off base. Foulke has a much lower career WHIP. He also had a better K/BB rate and more K's per 9 innings then Koch. This means less balls were put in play against Foulke hence Foulke was less likely to put men on base.

There's nothing surprising about this trade blowing up in the Sox face. The goal of a pitcher is to keep runners off base. Period. All this talk of scoreless appearances and so forth is a byproduct of having fewer men on base.

Bob

Dadawg_77
06-24-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I don't know.....maybe The Curse Of The Black Sox?

Seriously that what happens when you have incompetent, inexperienced people manning high positions in the front office. You'd think the Sox would realize that having a Pat Gillick, Walt Jocketty or Brian Sabean in the front office / GM spot would only be a benefit.

Lip

Lip this is JR, so I am shocked he hasn't gone with someone from then Billy Beane family.

gosox41
06-24-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Lip this is JR, so I am shocked he hasn't gone with someone from then Billy Beane family.

This is JR, so he has to do things his way.

1. Be cheap.
2. This may cause controversey, but he needs to find a minority candidate. He is head of the committee.
3. Do it his way so he can be smug and tell all us fans how wrong we were and how superior he is.

Bob

Hangar18
06-24-2003, 11:53 AM
Reinsdorfs the one the got BURNED big time with this deal.
They unloaded Foulke because he was "Arbitration" eligible
and they didnt want to pay $$$$, wasnt Koch supposedly
CHEAPER in the long run, prompting this deal? Again,,,
the Sox Let $$$$$ get in the way of making good decisions.
Just like the design of our STADIUM, and so on....and so on...

34 Inch Stick
06-24-2003, 01:10 PM
I'd still trade Colon for Liefer, Biddle and Osuna. I think most GM's in the league would still make that trade.

I din't like Foulke for Koch because of the additional people we gave up. I thought the two relievers were fairly equal. I would not be so quick to give up on Koch, although I think he would be great trade bait if we have a fire sale.

hold2dibber
06-24-2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
I'd still trade Colon for Liefer, Biddle and Osuna. I think most GM's in the league would still make that trade.

I agree completely. Biddle was the one guy I was sad to see go in this deal, but a stud starter like Colon is clearly more valuable than a closer (Biddle has quite a few saves where he has come in to start the 9th with bases empty and a 2 or 3 run lead). I sure as hell hope that the Sox ink Colon to a long term deal.

I din't like Foulke for Koch because of the additional people we gave up. I thought the two relievers were fairly equal. I would not be so quick to give up on Koch, although I think he would be great trade bait if we have a fire sale.

I wasn't crazy about the trade because of the additional people the Sox gave up, but also because Foulke is better than Koch. With that said, Koch has been, historically, better than his performance this year, so I still hold out hope that he'll rebound and have a decent year. But he's still not as good as Foulke.

ssang
06-24-2003, 02:11 PM
Trading for Colon was a no-brainer as Biddle isn't nealy as good as his 20 saves would indicate. I stand by that deal with immense confidence. However, I never liked the Koch for Foulke deal. First off, dealing with Billy Beane should throw up a red flag for KW. That's indicattor #1 that we were getting hosed. Also, if you really break down the stats Foulke is MUCH more reliable as a pitcher than Koch. Koch may fit the classic closer's role better than Foulke but he is the leading cause of heart attacks amonf Sox fans (WAY too many baserunners). Foulke had one horrific strretch and got good again. So KW jumped the gun and made abad trade. Still, this move pales in comarison to the idiotic move that Manuel made by yanking Colon the other day. Mother F**ker, Jerry Manuel! Sorry I got off base there.