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View Full Version : Foulke you, indeed...


Bisco Stu
06-24-2003, 02:30 AM
Keith's 20th save tonight.

Hey, I applauded the trade at the time.

So by that logic, I'm qualified for to be GM for the White Sox.

I also wouldn't give a homeless guy a penny tonight, so that qualifies me to be owner.

Spiff
06-24-2003, 08:21 AM
I didn't applaud it, I thought it ****ing sucked. I'm glad Keith is doing well though and sticking it to his doubters.

Iguana775
06-24-2003, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Spiff
I didn't applaud it, I thought it ****ing sucked. I'm glad Keith is doing well though and sticking it to his doubters.

ditto.

gosox41
06-24-2003, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by Spiff
I didn't applaud it, I thought it ****ing sucked. I'm glad Keith is doing well though and sticking it to his doubters.

So you mean it's not a good idea to trade a good pitcher for a worse pitcher and then sign the worse pitcher to a contract extension???

This is White Sox baseball.

Bob

THE_HOOTER
06-24-2003, 10:32 AM
Worst trade made to date.

Well, maybe the Ritchie trade too.

Gumshoe
06-24-2003, 11:19 AM
Worst trade to date is right. Foulke is far superior in all stats, and he has more than 1 pitch.... hahaha

What's the deal with Iguana's picture? I think I understand, but what is that thing on the chick's leg/knee? Soaking ...

Gumbo

thecell
06-24-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
Worst trade to date is right. Foulke is far superior in all stats, and he has more than 1 pitch.... hahaha

What's the deal with Iguana's picture? I think I understand, but what is that thing on the chick's leg/knee? Soaking ...

Gumbo

looks like an iguana

MHOUSE
06-24-2003, 12:40 PM
Rocky Biddle also got his 20th save yesterday IIRC. Who knew we had closer material in him all along? Once again our coaches don't know how to evaluate or use our personnel. Rocky does have a 4 something ERA and has blown a few, but still 20 saves is pretty good for your first go at it and it's twice as many as Billy Goat. I thought that between Marte, Foulke, and Biddle? that we could have found a closer on our roster all ready instead of going out and getting one. We also need to remember that Foulke sucked to start last year and we all were screaming for him to be gone. Then the closer by committee was crap so what was KW supposed to do? Kieth needed a change of scenery.

Foulke You
06-24-2003, 01:17 PM
I watched Foulke breeze through a 1-2-3 9th inning last night on ESPN for his 20th save and got real nostalgic for Foulkey. That change up was as nasty as ever and he was spotting his fastball as he did here from '99-'01 and the end of '02. Keith was one of my favorites. I don't think Billy Koch has gotten a 1-2-3 inning once in his Sox career yet. I like Koch but I want the old Koch! I really would like to know where Koch's velocity went? Where are those 99-100mph bullets he used to throw in Toronto and Oakland?

By the way, do I get some royalties for the title of this thread? :D:

maurice
06-24-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Iguana775
ditto.

Double ditto.

TheRockinMT
06-24-2003, 01:49 PM
The trade of Foulke, et al, for Billy Koch, et all, was hard to take at the time it was made. It is getting harder every save he gets plus he is 4-0 I believe. BK is a heart attack happening every game so far. I jusy hope that Koch can recover. Maybe he has lost his arm strength or something?

Iguana775
06-24-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
Worst trade to date is right. Foulke is far superior in all stats, and he has more than 1 pitch.... hahaha

What's the deal with Iguana's picture? I think I understand, but what is that thing on the chick's leg/knee? Soaking ...

Gumbo

yea, I am sitting on that chicks leg. :)

Tragg
06-24-2003, 02:07 PM
The problem with Koch is that you can't really use him to "put out the fire" (he walks too many) which is supposed to be one of the jobs of a closer (the other to finish games).

Gumshoe
06-24-2003, 02:13 PM
I thought you hit it so hard she had to soak herself in warm water .. hahahaha


MHOUSE We also need to remember that Foulke sucked to start last year and we all were screaming for him to be gone. Then the closer by committee was crap so what was KW supposed to do? Kieth needed a change of scenery.

He needed a change of scenery? Anyone who knows anything didn't want Foulke to be gone, EVER. He only was unhittable for 3 years, had 1 bad month and some stupid fans thought he "lost it". How did he respond? He was unhittable the rest of the year! Koch has been terrible for the first month this year, and questionable the rest of the way.

241 innings the last three years including 93 last year will have a huge effect on a reliever's arm. Don't you think Beane knew that?

I thought Biddle would be a solid arm for us, but you can't second guess that move. We lost nothing but Osuna, Liefer, and Biddle to gain a guy who has been (although unspectacular) SOLID. Osuna was every bit as questionable as Gordon, Liefer would never have played consistently enough for us, and Biddle ... well you gotta give something to get something.

Quit talking about Koch vs. Foulke! There is NO comparison. Foulke knows how to pitch, Koch knows how to throw hard ... and now he no longer can. In fact, Foulke throws every bit as hard as Koch right now, and has the most devastating change in the game! Hahaha, what a dumb move ... thanks KW :?:

duke of dorwood
06-24-2003, 02:27 PM
Foulke, Biddle-more proof of the ineffective regime of Manual. No defined roles, chaos, "just go in". Only thing I regret about trading Foulke was Valentine going with. The weasel we have for a manager screwed with Foulke's head, see what tranquility and defined roles can do? I just cant get enthused as I should with Manual in the dugout

MisterB
06-24-2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
Foulke, Biddle-more proof of the ineffective regime of Manual. No defined roles, chaos, "just go in". Only thing I regret about trading Foulke was Valentine going with. The weasel we have for a manager screwed with Foulke's head, see what tranquility and defined roles can do? I just cant get enthused as I should with Manual in the dugout

BTW, a Joe Valentine update:

Sacramento (AAA)
1-1, 4 SV, 4.46 ERA, 40.1 IP, 33 H, 27 BB, 39 K

Not looking like that big of a loss so far.

FoulkeFan
06-24-2003, 03:39 PM
Keith Foulke was traded because the Sox management didn't like him and had no intention of paying him the salary he's going to be looking for as a free agent at the end of this season. Anyone who thinks that the White Sox make decisions based on what's best for the team on the field is smoking crack.

MarkV
06-24-2003, 04:26 PM
You are totally correct. Anybody KW dislikes goes bye-bye. Mike Sirotka, Sean Lowe, Bob Howry, Keith Foulke, Jeff Liefer, Josh Paul, etc. Remember the first two weeks of 2001, when everyone on the pitching staff except Lowe sucked. Lowe got sent to the minors to "work things out".

hose
06-24-2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Rocky Biddle also got his 20th save yesterday IIRC. Who knew we had closer material in him all along? Once again our coaches don't know how to evaluate or use our personnel. Rocky does have a 4 something ERA and has blown a few, but still 20 saves is pretty good for your first go at it and it's twice as many as Billy Goat. I thought that between Marte, Foulke, and Biddle? that we could have found a closer on our roster all ready instead of going out and getting one. We also need to remember that Foulke sucked to start last year and we all were screaming for him to be gone. Then the closer by committee was crap so what was KW supposed to do? Kieth needed a change of scenery.


Rocky got another save, #21 this afternoon against Pittsburgh

gosox41
06-24-2003, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
I watched Foulke breeze through a 1-2-3 9th inning last night on ESPN for his 20th save and got real nostalgic for Foulkey. That change up was as nasty as ever and he was spotting his fastball as he did here from '99-'01 and the end of '02. Keith was one of my favorites. I don't think Billy Koch has gotten a 1-2-3 inning once in his Sox career yet. I like Koch but I want the old Koch! I really would like to know where Koch's velocity went? Where are those 99-100mph bullets he used to throw in Toronto and Oakland?

By the way, do I get some royalties for the title of this thread? :D:

When the Sox first made this mistake, one of my concerns (other then the simple fact that Koch is statistically worse then Foulke on his best day) was the amount of overuse he experienced in 2002. I compared him to Bobby Thigpen after his 57 save season. Not all power pitchers are cut out to handle such a heavy workload and bounce back with the same heat the next year. Releivers need to be analyzed a little differently then starters.

Bob

gosox41
06-24-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
I thought you hit it so hard she had to soak herself in warm water .. hahahaha


MHOUSE

He needed a change of scenery? Anyone who knows anything didn't want Foulke to be gone, EVER. He only was unhittable for 3 years, had 1 bad month and some stupid fans thought he "lost it". How did he respond? He was unhittable the rest of the year! Koch has been terrible for the first month this year, and questionable the rest of the way.

241 innings the last three years including 93 last year will have a huge effect on a reliever's arm. Don't you think Beane knew that?

I thought Biddle would be a solid arm for us, but you can't second guess that move. We lost nothing but Osuna, Liefer, and Biddle to gain a guy who has been (although unspectacular) SOLID. Osuna was every bit as questionable as Gordon, Liefer would never have played consistently enough for us, and Biddle ... well you gotta give something to get something.

Quit talking about Koch vs. Foulke! There is NO comparison. Foulke knows how to pitch, Koch knows how to throw hard ... and now he no longer can. In fact, Foulke throws every bit as hard as Koch right now, and has the most devastating change in the game! Hahaha, what a dumb move ... thanks KW :?:


Well said.

harwar
06-24-2003, 06:13 PM
The problem is,now that were stuck with this guy Koch,what the hell are they going to do with him?KW will just insist on Manuel throwing him out there because,what the hell else are they gonna do.I figure the guy has to have some kind of injury because hes' lost 10 mph on his fastball since last season.

MHOUSE
06-25-2003, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
I thought Biddle would be a solid arm for us, but you can't second guess that move. We lost nothing but Osuna, Liefer, and Biddle to gain a guy who has been (although unspectacular) SOLID. Osuna was every bit as questionable as Gordon, Liefer would never have played consistently enough for us, and Biddle ... well you gotta give something to get something.

Quit talking about Koch vs. Foulke! There is NO comparison. Foulke knows how to pitch, Koch knows how to throw hard ... and now he no longer can. In fact, Foulke throws every bit as hard as Koch right now, and has the most devastating change in the game! Hahaha, what a dumb move ... thanks KW :?:

I agree about Rocky. He was a great guy from everything I heard about him and although he wasn't stellar, he was a solid arm and worked hard and kept his mouth shut. I was sad to see him go, but am also glad he's having success elsewhere. Rocky was the only offseason loss that I was really sad about. Osuna and Gordon are a wash and I like Flash better. Liefer sucked and got released by Tampa Bay which is the ultimate diss. But I miss Rocky and his sideburns.

Your points about Foulke and the trade are good and put mine to shame :(: , but rightly so.

About the changeup: I would argue that Eric Gagne has the most devasting changeup in the game today.

doublem23
06-25-2003, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Rocky Biddle also got his 20th save yesterday IIRC. Who knew we had closer material in him all along? Once again our coaches don't know how to evaluate or use our personnel. Rocky does have a 4 something ERA and has blown a few, but still 20 saves is pretty good for your first go at it and it's twice as many as Billy Goat. I thought that between Marte, Foulke, and Biddle? that we could have found a closer on our roster all ready instead of going out and getting one. We also need to remember that Foulke sucked to start last year and we all were screaming for him to be gone. Then the closer by committee was crap so what was KW supposed to do? Kieth needed a change of scenery.

Did you watch the Sox at all last year? Keith had an ERA under 1 for the 2nd half. He didn't need a change of scenery... He needed that dope Manuel to let him close again. And who cares how Rocky is doing? Bartolo Colon > Rocky Biddle (about a million times over).