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View Full Version : Just finished "Moneyball"


gosox41
06-23-2003, 06:52 PM
This has been discussed already, but I thought the book was great. It made a lot of interesting points and throughout the book I was making comparisons to the Oakland A way and what I observe from the White Sox. Here are some opinions/observations:

1. I thought the book was more about the Oakland A's philosophy then Billy Beane, though he clearly is the guy who installed the philosophy throught the organization.

2. It's going to be interesting to see how the 2002 draft pans our for the A's, especially Jeremy Brown. Not everyone is going ot make it or live up to the hype, but it'll be fun to see how muc higher of a success rate the A's have compared to the rest of baseball. Bean is doing something right. He's been GM since 1997 and the farm system has been productive.

3. Billy Beane is a genius. He finds ways to win on a $40 mill. payroll. I think the team has average 99 wins the last 3 years and is on pace for another solid year.

4. I don't like how Billy Beane tries to control everything, including the managerial decisions. He even told Art Howe where to sit since in the dugout since he looks so bad. He should have faith in the people he hires, or hire people who believe in his philosophy (How is no longer the manager.)

5. Interesting quote: "The White Sox always told us an aggressive mistake is no really a mistake." Ray Durham said that when talking to a couple of A's coaches about the difference in the two teams philosophy. Well, I think the Sox are wrong to an extent. While I occasionally like the bunt and stealing bases, "aggressive" mistakes still lead to outs. Outs are the one commodity an offensive team needs to avoid in order to get the best chance to score.

It does explain why the Sox put up with boneheaded running and lack of fundamentals. They just see it as being aggressive. Unfortuneately there is a fine line between aggressive and stupid.

6. I thought they were a little too biased on the Olivo/Bradford trade. It was a good trade for both teams. Bradford has been a top reliever and better then 2/3 of the Sox bullpen...according to the stats. I'd rather Olivo. Though I do wonder how many other minor leaguers the Sox neglect because they do things differently.

7. Loved the discussion about how Beane likes to basically take a reliever put him the "closer" role and make him look good so he can trade him to another team. The book talks about Billy Taylor, but he did this to the Sox with Billy Koch. The closer position is highly overrated as is throwing 100 MPH (unless your fastball is 5-7 MPH slower.)

8. KW is a Billy Beane wannabe. KW is just much dumber as is eveidenced by a lot of his trades. I noticed there have been issues with Kenny's presence in the clubhouse. Maybe his philosophies aren't right but he's still forcing them on people. I can see people resenting Beane in Oakland if the team was as disappointing as the Sox.

9. I give Beane credit. He could have quadrupled his salary to go to Boston and had a much easier time building a winner since Boston is also willing to spend (2.5 times more then Oakland.) Beane in Boston would equal a very dangerous Red Sox team.

dickallen15
06-23-2003, 07:04 PM
Maybe Beane's success will continue, maybe it won't. One guy who had success with the draft was Larry Himes, then suddenly he was gone. Larry had some personality conflicts, and it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happened to Beane. I wouldn't mind Himes and Goldis coming back to the Sox, although I know it would never happen.

Tragg
06-23-2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by gosox41


7. Loved the discussion about how Beane likes to basically take a reliever put him the "closer" role and make him look good so he can trade him to another team. The book talks about Billy Taylor, but he did this to the Sox with Billy Koch. The closer position is highly overrated as is throwing 100 MPH (unless your fastball is 5-7 MPH slower.)

.

That's nonsense - Koch was a closer for Toronto before he became closer for the As. Further, he was the As closer when making their pennant run last year. Beane did not put him there to trade him.

I think that idea is a good one though - Hopefully Flash's past as a closer will allow us to trade him

gosox41
06-23-2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
That's nonsense - Koch was a closer for Toronto before he became closer for the As. Further, he was the As closer when making their pennant run last year. Beane did not put him there to trade him.

I think that idea is a good one though - Hopefully Flash's past as a closer will allow us to trade him

Beane did pull a fast one on the Sox with the Koch trade. When the Sox traded Foulke, what was the rush to get a new closer. Marte could easily do the job. The after getting Koch, the Sox go out and immediately bring in Gordon and White. Like you said, Gordon could be a closer. The best part of the trade from Beane's perspective is he still got KW to split the differences in salary. So the Sox made the trade to save $1 mill.

Paying a premium closer a lot of money is a bad way for a team with limited resources to operate...it's a waste of money.

Bob

DrCrawdad
06-23-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
...I wouldn't mind Himes and Goldis coming back to the Sox, although I know it would never happen.

You're right. It ain't gonna happen.

Tragg
06-23-2003, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Beane did pull a fast one on the Sox with the Koch trade. When the Sox traded Foulke, what was the rush to get a new closer. Marte could easily do the job. The after getting Koch, the Sox go out and immediately bring in Gordon and White. Like you said, Gordon could be a closer. The best part of the trade from Beane's perspective is he still got KW to split the differences in salary. So the Sox made the trade to save $1 mill.

Paying a premium closer a lot of money is a bad way for a team with limited resources to operate...it's a waste of money.

Bob

Beane didn't pull a fast one - he didn't hoodwink us; Koch's record and resume as a closer was long. Kenny williams could review it, watch film and make his own decision. There was nothing hidden here- it was all open.
I don't think it was a good trade, but that's because of williams, not beane.