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View Full Version : Colon Signaled He was Done!


NewyorkSoxFan
06-23-2003, 07:28 AM
I am in no way the biggest JM fan, but this is why you can't start up these threads without knowing all the facts. I realize that second guessing is part of baseball, but who would have known that Bart was tightening up? In some of you guys over zealous desire to blame JM for everything wrong with the Sox, waiting to find out all the facts would certainly increase your abilities to make better arguments outside of JERRY SUCKS!!!!

NYSF

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sports_story.asp?intID=37795104

ssang
06-23-2003, 07:37 AM
Bartolo had more left. He just wanted to have idiot Manuel prepared in case a guy or two got on in the 8th. Manuel took Bartolo out before he got in a jam. Before he even thre a single picth in the inning. Just listen to what his interpreter said. Manuel is a f**king MORON! How can anyone, even his own mother, defend Jerry "idiot, moron, dumb-ass, puss, loser, weakling, iretarded, MANUEL!?!?!?!?!

NewyorkSoxFan
06-23-2003, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by ssang
Bartolo had more left. He just wanted to have idiot Manuel prepared in case a guy or two got on in the 8th. Manuel took Bartolo out before he got in a jam. Before he even thre a single picth in the inning. Just listen to what his interpreter said. Manuel is a f**king MORON! How can anyone, even his own mother, defend Jerry "idiot, moron, dumb-ass, puss, loser, weakling, iretarded, MANUEL!?!?!?!?!


Thanks for proving my point. :D:

NYSF

MarqSox
06-23-2003, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by ssang
Bartolo had more left. He just wanted to have idiot Manuel prepared in case a guy or two got on in the 8th. Manuel took Bartolo out before he got in a jam. Before he even thre a single picth in the inning. Just listen to what his interpreter said. Manuel is a f**king MORON! How can anyone, even his own mother, defend Jerry "idiot, moron, dumb-ass, puss, loser, weakling, iretarded, MANUEL!?!?!?!?!

And you know what? Had Colon pitched to O'Leary (who, over the course of his career, has hit Colon better than any player in MLB) you would be the first person blaming Manuel for leaving him in while he had tightness against a horrible matchup.

Guys, face it, unless the Sox win 162 games, you're gonna villify Manuel somehow for each loss. He's not a great manager, I'll admit, but you really gotta pick your spots, and this isn't one of them. It's almost kind of childish.

ssang
06-23-2003, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
And you know what? Had Colon pitched to O'Leary (who, over the course of his career, has hit Colon better than any player in MLB) you would be the first person blaming Manuel for leaving him in while he had tightness against a horrible matchup.

Guys, face it, unless the Sox win 162 games, you're gonna villify Manuel somehow for each loss. He's not a great manager, I'll admit, but you really gotta pick your spots, and this isn't one of them. It's almost kind of childish.

And you know what?....YOU"RE WRONG!. Even if Colon hadlet O'Leary get on base, I still would've wanted Bartolo in. The guy was dominating, people. Just face the facts that Jerry made yet another wrong decision. Stop defending him! Are you all masochists???? Manuel took out Bartolo so Marte could get O'Leary out....which he did. But then what? We still neede 5 more outs to finish off that game. Now our best pitching, who was awesome yesterday, is out and we still gotta figure out a way to sinish the Cubs off. What happened is 100% exactly what I thought would happen. If Bartolo had lost that lead I and everyone else wouldn't have blamed Manuel . How could you blame a manager for keeping a guy in who had been AMAZING all day long? You can fault him for pulling your best pitcher without even getting into a jam!! Was he afraid of O'Leary?!!?? Stop defding Manuel. You are WRONG. It's that simple. Not an opinion....it's a cold hard FACT that Jerry royaly screwed up AGAIN!

MarqSox
06-23-2003, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by ssang
How could you blame a manager for keeping a guy in who had been AMAZING all day long? You can fault him for pulling your best pitcher without even getting into a jam!!

What, like Colon had against the Giants game? Many of you still managed to bitch out Manuel after he left in Colon to give up a bomb to Barry Bonds in the 9th inning, after he'd thrown a tremendous game. So why is it that Manuel gets villified either way? Could it be because he simply can't do anything right in the eyes of some of you? That's all I'm saying sometimes you just gotta tip your cap to the other team, even if it is the flubs. Manuel didn't lose this game, as much as you wish to blame him.

JUGGERNAUT
06-23-2003, 08:54 AM
Not the removal of Colon. If you can't trust your bullpen in the 8th & 9th innings you're not going to the post-season.
Period.

This is the 4th time now I have seen a BAD play at the plate executed by the SOX.

Make all the excuses you want, but it's JM 's JOB to PREPARE these games for GAME DAY.

After the first blunder of a play at the plate a good MANAGER has the team practicing those situations AFTER the game. I don't give a **** what the players think. They are suppose to be professionals.

Consistently now the SOX cutoff men & OF players are not getting the throw down near the 3rd base line. That's where it needs to be. Our catchers always seem to be 5-7 ft in front of the plate. There is no option to block the plate or tag a runner on a close play when THEY ARE THAT FAR OUT OF POSITION.

If JM is worried about the ball getting away, that's why the pitcher is suppose to back up the THROW.

I'M SO SICK AND TIRED OF THE LITTLE LEAGUE PLAY UNDER JM's TUTALAGE.

It's way PAST TIME FOR HIM TO GO.
:angry: :angry: :angry:

MHOUSE
06-23-2003, 10:38 AM
I think Colon said hey Jer I'm tiring a little so you might want to get someone up in the pen just in case. He's just managing for him basically since he knows Manuel won't do it on his own. I doubt Bartolo said "OMG coach O'Leary is up, get me out of here right now!" Let him give up a hit at least before you yank him. He was tearing it up.

Also, he should have walked Bonds and faced the next guy. Even if he gives up the homer, it's tied so go to Marte then. Don't let Bartolo load the bases and then pull him. It's an issue of knowing your players and knowing the situation. Sometimes you pull him, sometimes you don't. There's not a catch-all rule for these things. It's up to the manager to know his players' tendencies and abilities. JM has no clue.

ssang
06-23-2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
I think Colon said hey Jer I'm tiring a little so you might want to get someone up in the pen just in case. He's just managing for him basically since he knows Manuel won't do it on his own. I doubt Bartolo said "OMG coach O'Leary is up, get me out of here right now!" Let him give up a hit at least before you yank him. He was tearing it up..... JM has no clue.


That's exactly how I see the situation as well! Colon was trying to help Manuel by letting him know to be prepared....JUST IN CASE he runs into trouble. So Moron Manuel takes that as Colon is spent now and he can't handle Troy O'Leary!!! I still can't beleive that people are defending Manuel on this one. Colon was magnificent and the three hits he gave up reallly were close to ZERO (2 infield hits and a bloop single). There is absolutley no doubt, whatsoever in my mind that if Manuel stays put and keeps Bartolo in the game the Sox win this game. The Cubs couldn't hit him. They knew the only chance they had was to get into the bullpen. The sad part of all this is that Bartolo didn't even get into a situation (Not even close) that would warrant a call to the pen. It's almost as if Manuel handed the Cubs the game! I guarantee that as soon as the Cub dugout saw Jerry stroll to the mound they laughed with joy. "Oh my god, they're pulling thier ace, who is pitching a gem, becuase they're afraid of frigin' Troy O'Leary!?!?!?! "

I seriously want to cry. This WAS a sweep. Jerry royaly blew it....AGAIN!

NewyorkSoxFan
06-23-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
I think Colon said hey Jer I'm tiring a little so you might want to get someone up in the pen just in case. He's just managing for him basically since he knows Manuel won't do it on his own. I doubt Bartolo said "OMG coach O'Leary is up, get me out of here right now!" Let him give up a hit at least before you yank him. He was tearing it up.

Also, he should have walked Bonds and faced the next guy. Even if he gives up the homer, it's tied so go to Marte then. Don't let Bartolo load the bases and then pull him. It's an issue of knowing your players and knowing the situation. Sometimes you pull him, sometimes you don't. There's not a catch-all rule for these things. It's up to the manager to know his players' tendencies and abilities. JM has no clue.


Now that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read, Colon was managing for him. The JM thing has gone from the absurd to the ridiculous.

He was tearing up against the Giants and we see what happened. Let me just say for the record I would have left him in, but if Marte does his job and doesn't hang a slider we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Colon had just gotten out of a little jam in the last 2 innings with DP's. Maybe he was thinking this guy might be getting tired, combined with the fact that Colon suggested he might need to get someone up. This is a guy who likes to finish games, so the fact that he says that to his manager should send a signal.

Imagine what the posts here would be if he left him in after saying he might be getting tired and he lost the game, you guys would burn him at the stake. I want someone to just say really it doesn't matter what moves he makes good or bad, I want him gone. At least I could respect that instead of second-guessing every stinkin move he makes. GIVE IT A REST!!! Lets go take 2 of 3 from the Twins.

NYSF

ssang
06-23-2003, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
Now that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read, Colon was managing for him. The JM thing has gone from the absurd to the ridiculous.

Imagine what the posts here would be if he left him in after saying he might be getting tired and he lost the game, you guys would burn him at the stake.
NYSF


In a word....WRONG! That's speculation on your part. The right move would've been no move at all. Even if Colon gave up 2-3 runs I WOULD NOT have blamed Manuel. You know why? Because the right move was to keep him. Period. My advice to you is to stop defending this baffoon, manuel. Let me put a flip-side on this situation and ask you this.....What is it gonna take for you to realize that Manuel is an idiot for a manager? Is he the sole reason for the Sox blunders? NO. Is he a big part for the Sox underachieving. ABSOLUTLEY!!!

MarqSox
06-23-2003, 11:25 AM
What I don't understand is why you're all neglecting one important fact -- that is, Troy O'Leary has performed better against Colon over the course of his career than any hitter. In other words, O'Leary has his number. You can mock all you want and say O'Leary sucks, but for whatever reason, the guy hits Colon great. It's like leaving Superman in to face Kryponite -- you just don't do it. Not in the 8th inning of a 1-run game.

ssang
06-23-2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
What I don't understand is why you're all neglecting one important fact -- that is, Troy O'Leary has performed better against Colon over the course of his career than any hitter. In other words, O'Leary has his number. You can mock all you want and say O'Leary sucks, but for whatever reason, the guy hits Colon great. It's like leaving Superman in to face Kryponite -- you just don't do it. Not in the 8th inning of a 1-run game.

That's sad. You're telling me that you're afraid of Troy O'Leary? Get a clue...he really does stink. I don't care if he's batting .500 against Bartolo. First off, that UNREAL .321 average is comprised mostly of SINGLES. Wow! So maybe he gets a base hit (the way Colon was pitching, I'd say the chanes of O'leary getting on were very slim). I 'd rather have Bartolo out there with a man on and 0 outs than any member of the bullpen with no one on and 1 out. And guess what? That's exactly what happened! Marte got the first guy but now we're stuck with the pen as Bartolo was MORONICALY taken out of the ball game. What does Marte proceed to do? Give up the lead and lose the ballgame. And your argument about it being a 1-run game in the 8th inning....that is EXACTLY why you keep bartolo in. Becuase he's the best you got and the margin for error is NONE. So I'd like to say you are out of your element on this argument. So with that said, the Manuel bashers are correct and you are wrong. Manueul cost us the game. Please come to terms with this.

IronFisk
06-23-2003, 11:52 AM
This was an obvious mistake from Jerry-boy, and the camel's back was broken a long time ago. Now this is just throwing straw on the grave site to help the grass seed.

Anyway, JM has developed a very skittish style of managering that is WAY too dependent on statistics. Once in a while, he will go with his gut, but it's rare. The whole Colon-Bonds issue demonstrates when Jerry goes with that gut. I did applaud him for keeping Colon in, and have no regrets about the outcome. Yesterday on the other hand was ridiculous, but very typical of JM. Colon was sailing - if he had "issues" about going out there - then its the managers job to motivate him to finish strong - not yank him. Unfortunately, when O'Leary picked up a bat, it was typical JM at work. OK, O'Leary has hit Colon well - but come on! There was no jam, and we all know Colon is a horse. I almost kicked in my TV when Cooper stated that he wanted to keep Colon fresh for the rest of the season, and that he did not want to threaten his "young" arm. HORSES$%T! That's the worst cop-out statement I have ever heard!

For you defenders of JM, get over it. There simply comes a time when you have to realize that the manager IS the problem. We have good talent, but it's being pissed away from someone better suited for the denim leagues than the majors. It is safe to say with Jerry at the helm, we are in store for another .500 season - this is torture!

my book about the 2003 Sox..."How I Learned to Drink to Forget"

:gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

gosox41
06-23-2003, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
Now that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read, Colon was managing for him. The JM thing has gone from the absurd to the ridiculous.

He was tearing up against the Giants and we see what happened. Let me just say for the record I would have left him in, but if Marte does his job and doesn't hang a slider we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Colon had just gotten out of a little jam in the last 2 innings with DP's. Maybe he was thinking this guy might be getting tired, combined with the fact that Colon suggested he might need to get someone up. This is a guy who likes to finish games, so the fact that he says that to his manager should send a signal.

Imagine what the posts here would be if he left him in after saying he might be getting tired and he lost the game, you guys would burn him at the stake. I want someone to just say really it doesn't matter what moves he makes good or bad, I want him gone. At least I could respect that instead of second-guessing every stinkin move he makes. GIVE IT A REST!!! Lets go take 2 of 3 from the Twins.

NYSF

I want Jerry gone. Not necessarily for yesterday but for 5 years of screw ups. His main problem is inconsistency. Find a role for the relievers. Who is the 8th inning guy? Do you play your best hitter against a pitcher he is 0-4 against in his career? Do you let Colon pitch the 9th inning of one game and lose, then never let him finsih again? How about a set batting line up.

For the record I was in favor of leaving Colon in against San Fran. and was in favor of leaving him in ysterday. There's no consistency with Jerry.

Bob

pudge
06-23-2003, 11:58 AM
I jumped on Manuel after the San Fran game for leaving Bartolo in and not having a RP warming up, and it triggered an 80+ post thread. This time, I just feel sorry for Manuel, because it seems like any move he makes blows up in his face. I personally thought Colon was cruising and would have liked to see him stay in against the Cubs. But if Colon said he was tiring, I don't think going to Marte was a bad move. It just didn't work, like most of what has happened this season. After Marte's last few outings, I certainly don't think as highly of him as I used to. Is there anyone in the pen left to rely on??

NewyorkSoxFan
06-23-2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I want Jerry gone. Not necessarily for yesterday but for 5 years of screw ups. His main problem is inconsistency. Find a role for the relievers. Who is the 8th inning guy? Do you play your best hitter against a pitcher he is 0-4 against in his career? Do you let Colon pitch the 9th inning of one game and lose, then never let him finsih again? How about a set batting line up.

For the record I was in favor of leaving Colon in against San Fran. and was in favor of leaving him in ysterday. There's no consistency with Jerry.

Bob

Finally a coherent quote from a fan. Something other than: WRONG!! NO!!

NYSF

Fridaythe13thJason
06-23-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
Consistently now the SOX cutoff men & OF players are not getting the throw down near the 3rd base line. That's where it needs to be. Our catchers always seem to be 5-7 ft in front of the plate. There is no option to block the plate or tag a runner on a close play when THEY ARE THAT FAR OUT OF POSITION.


This is lunacy...that was a great throw from Carlos and a throw that was a little offline from Jose. Most of the time, in baseball, that play is not even that close.

Fridaythe13thJason
06-23-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by ssang
That's sad. You're telling me that you're afraid of Troy O'Leary? Get a clue...he really does stink. I don't care if he's batting .500 against Bartolo. First off, that UNREAL .321 average is comprised mostly of SINGLES. Wow! So maybe he gets a base hit (the way Colon was pitching, I'd say the chanes of O'leary getting on were very slim). I 'd rather have Bartolo out there with a man on and 0 outs than any member of the bullpen with no one on and 1 out. And guess what? That's exactly what happened! Marte got the first guy but now we're stuck with the pen as Bartolo was MORONICALY taken out of the ball game. What does Marte proceed to do? Give up the lead and lose the ballgame. And your argument about it being a 1-run game in the 8th inning....that is EXACTLY why you keep bartolo in. Becuase he's the best you got and the margin for error is NONE. So I'd like to say you are out of your element on this argument. So with that said, the Manuel bashers are correct and you are wrong. Manueul cost us the game. Please come to terms with this.

I think you need to take it easy. I'm with Marq on this argument, but I wouldn't be a proponent of him telling you you were WRONG, ABSOLUTELY, and telling you to come to terms with things. That's silly. There is no fact in this argument. All there is is speculation. Again, if, Marte had finished that off no problem, and somehow in your speculative world, we would know that Colon would've blown it, you would be WRONG! See, look at how ridiculous that is. We really have no idea. In tight games with tired starters, Managers go to their setup guy. It didn't work this time...not the end of the world, and really no need to yell like a lunatic.

ssang
06-23-2003, 12:15 PM
I honestly think it's really THAT obvious that Jerry was making a huge mistake when he took out Colon without even giving him a chance to retire Troy Frigin' O'Leary. I swear this isn't speculation on my part. It really is a fact that Manuel blew the game! No speculation....Pure Fact!

Fridaythe13thJason
06-23-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by ssang
I honestly think it's really THAT obvious that Jerry was making a huge mistake when he took out Colon without even giving him a chance to retire Troy Frigin' O'Leary. I swear this isn't speculation on my part. It really is a fact that Manuel blew the game! No speculation....Pure Fact!

Do you even take yourself seriously? Do you know what a fact is? Obviously the fact that we are discussing and disagreeing makes it probably not a fact, eh?

Even better is that you started that with "I think." Fact, huh!

steff
06-23-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by ssang
Bartolo had more left. He just wanted to have idiot Manuel prepared in case a guy or two got on in the 8th. Manuel took Bartolo out before he got in a jam. Before he even thre a single picth in the inning. Just listen to what his interpreter said. Manuel is a f**king MORON! How can anyone, even his own mother, defend Jerry "idiot, moron, dumb-ass, puss, loser, weakling, iretarded, MANUEL!?!?!?!?!


Good grief..

You know what Bart had better then he did?

The guy NEVER quits. It speaks in VOLUMES that he said anything.

Obviously there was an issue.

3 more words for you.... anger management classes.

steff
06-23-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by SoCalUIC
Do you even take yourself seriously? Do you know what a fact is? Obviously the fact that we are discussing and disagreeing makes it probably not a fact, eh?

Even better is that you started that with "I think." Fact, huh!

LOL!! :D: :D:

ssang
06-23-2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by SoCalUIC
Do you even take yourself seriously? Do you know what a fact is? Obviously the fact that we are discussing and disagreeing makes it probably not a fact, eh?

Even better is that you started that with "I think." Fact, huh!


Ah, you don't sense my sarcasam. Obviosuly, it's not really a fact. My point in saying it is a fact is simply making light of the situation. I just think for the Manuel supporters it's extremely hard to argue for the man. So fine....it's as close to a fact as humanly possible. Is that better for you?

jeremyb1
06-23-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by ssang
In a word....WRONG! That's speculation on your part.

no you know what speculation is?

Originally posted by ssang
Bartolo had more left. He just wanted to have idiot Manuel prepared in case a guy or two got on in the 8th. Manuel took Bartolo out before he got in a jam.

do you read what you post here?!?! that is speculation if i've ever heard it in my life. what do you know about the how often colon tells the staff he is tired and the manner in which he chooses to do so? if he's been on the team for two months and has never said to have a pitcher in the pen ready before, then it seems to me like something isn't right. it seems to me like he must be pretty tired to say something. it seems to me like playing it safe would be avoiding any injury issues, avoid the chance of having a pitcher at less than full strength lose the game, and go to your pen.

clearly, if your pen can't ever hold a one run league, the manager isn't the problem. pretend for a second colon really was tired and couldn't go out to pitch again without completely falling apart, even though you don't think that's true. that's not unreasonable, right? pitchers do get tired and must be pulled sometimes. so what do you do, you call on your bullpen. marte has an era below two, gordon pitched over an inning yesterday, and koch doesn't look as though he can get anyone out right now. white has looked a little better lately but is still a huge question mark and glover and sanders haven't done much to inspire confidence. obviously the number one problem here (after our stumbling offense) is the pen's inability to hold the lead.

TornLabrum
06-23-2003, 05:18 PM
The following quote from the Daily Herald article is incomplete:

"I told Coop to keep the bullpen ready just in case,'' Colon said through coach Rafael Santana, his interpreter. "I did what I could.''

After the words "just in case," Santana quoted Colon as saying "someone gets on base."

HUGE difference.

BTW, the complete quote was played this morning on The Score.

steff
06-24-2003, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
The following quote from the Daily Herald article is incomplete:



After the words "just in case," Santana quoted Colon as saying "someone gets on base."

HUGE difference.

BTW, the complete quote was played this morning on The Score.


Hal.. was Santana on the mound?

ssang
06-24-2003, 07:50 AM
Just think of it this way. Any good manager has their stud stay on the mound as long as they can handle the innings and are pitching well. Colon had both of those covered. When Colon says take me out "just in case", I seriously doubt that means take me out before I even throw a pitch in the next inning. Nor does it mean take me out if TROY O'LEARY! comes up to pinch hit. Manuel blew it. FACE IT!

TornLabrum
06-24-2003, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by steff3603
Hal.. was Santana on the mound?

Were you?

MarqSox
06-24-2003, 11:41 AM
I think, if nothing else, this thread proves people will believe what they want to believe. If you want Manuel gone, then it's "absolutely" clear that he screwed up. If you don't, you're a little more willing to be reasonable.

TornLabrum
06-24-2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I think, if nothing else, this thread proves people will believe what they want to believe. If you want Manuel gone, then it's "absolutely" clear that he screwed up. If you don't, you're a little more willing to be reasonable.

And if we want Manuel gone, we are by nature of that very fact unreasonable?

Kilroy
06-24-2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
And if we want Manuel gone, we are by nature of that very fact unreasonable?

With specific regard to this situation, those that want Manuel fired have been very unreasonable. Unreasonable meaning, unwilling to listen to any reason given for pulling Colon. Those people say Manuel screwed up, end of story. That sounds pretty unreasonable to me.

1951Campbell
06-24-2003, 01:50 PM
:threadsucks

TornLabrum
06-24-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
With specific regard to this situation, those that want Manuel fired have been very unreasonable. Unreasonable meaning, unwilling to listen to any reason given for pulling Colon. Those people say Manuel screwed up, end of story. That sounds pretty unreasonable to me.

I heard Rafael Santana say after the game, that Colon asked Manuel to have somebody warming up, "in case somebody gets on base."

Did anyone get on base? Is it I who is unwilling to listen or the Manuel supporters?

Kilroy
06-24-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I heard Rafael Santana say after the game, that Colon asked Manuel to have somebody warming up, "in case somebody gets on base."

Did anyone get on base? Is it I who is unwilling to listen or the Manuel supporters?

Hold on a second. Last time I checked the roster, it said:

Colon - RHP
Manuel - Manager

I don't see where it says that Colon's every suggestion is to be followed to the letter. Do you?

ssang
06-24-2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


I don't see where it says that Colon's every suggestion is to be followed to the letter. Do you?


Yeah, well, it sure as hell should be! Jerry isn't good at making picthing changes. Case and point is exactly what happened on Sunday. Colon gave Jerry a head's up (last time Jerry dind't even have someone warming up in the 9th for Colon...Colon remembers this)

No more arguments on this one. Colon had no business being pulled from that game...ESPECIALLY without even being given a chance to pitch to goddamn Troy O'Leary. Bottom Line is that Manuel cost us that game.

Kilroy
06-24-2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by ssang
Yeah, well, it sure as hell should be! Jerry isn't good at making picthing changes. Case and point is exactly what happened on Sunday. Colon gave Jerry a head's up (last time Jerry dind't even have someone warming up in the 9th for Colon...Colon remembers this)

No more arguments on this one. Colon had no business being pulled from that game...ESPECIALLY without even being given a chance to pitch to goddamn Troy O'Leary. Bottom Line is that Manuel cost us that game.

Just answer this question honestly: If the Sox had held on to win, would you give a **** that Colon got pulled?

ssang
06-24-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Just answer this question honestly: If the Sox had held on to win, would you give a **** that Colon got pulled?


Actually...YES. I was pissed as soon as I saw Manuel go to the mound to make a call for the bullpen. Of course I wouldn't be going as nuts about it as I am now but it was the wrong move even if the Sox won that game. My thoughts when Manuel uyanked Colon were "is he f**king insane!?!? Our chances from winning that ballgame went from more than 90% down to 50/50. That is why I was pissed.

All my blame for this teams' woes do not lie ith Jerry manuel. Ken Williams has done his fair share, so has the chiarman, and obviosuly the players too. But you can't telll me that you are pleased with the way ghandi has handled this club. In Sunday's case, with the game being played out the way it was (a big-time ptcher's duel) I would say that Manuel was the sole reason we lost the sweep.

ssang
06-24-2003, 03:12 PM
Just to prove that I am not biased and picking on Manuel just to pick on him, I thought Jerry made the CORRECT decision in leaving Colon in vs. Bonds and San Fran. I was at the game and I thought it was the right call. However, he did manage to be an idiot by not even having someone warmed up...."just in case" Colon couldn't finish off. Now you see where me and the rest of the manuel doubters are coming from. BAM!!

TornLabrum
06-24-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by ssang
Just to prove that I am not biased and picking onManuel just to pick on him, I thought Jerry made the CORRECT decision in leaving Colon in vs. Bonds and San Fran. I was at the game and I thought it was the right call. However, he did manage to be an idiot by not even having someone warmed up...."just in case" Colon couldn't finish off. Now you see here me and the rest of teh manuel doubters are coming from. BAM!!

I disagree with just one point on Bonds. After three Ks, I just knew what was going to happen, and it did. I wanted Colon left it, I wanted someone warming up before the start of the inning, and I wanted Bonds given a free pass. Let somebody else kill you.

ssang
06-24-2003, 03:24 PM
I totally agree about walking Bonds. 3 things needed to happen in that situation. 1) keep Colon in. 2) walk Bonds. 3) have someone warming up. Jerry was 1 for 3 as all he did was keep Colon in..... Oh well.

steff
06-24-2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Were you?


Nope. But I have trust in the ones that were and what I was told.

TornLabrum
06-24-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by steff3603
Nope. But I have trust in the ones that were and what I was told.

I don't. Call me cynical.

MarqSox
06-24-2003, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I don't. Call me cynical.

Cynical.