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View Full Version : Jose Valentin To The Cubbies- RUMOR!


DrCrawdad
06-19-2003, 12:49 PM
If I heard correctly Bruce Levine correctly then the Cubbies are perhaps interested in Jose Valentin.

Randar68
06-19-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
If I heard correctly Bruce


WHAT?

rmusacch
06-19-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
If I heard correctly Bruce Levine correctly then the Cubbies are perhaps interested in Jose Valentin.

You are kidding me. Jose is having a bad season but he is one of my favorite players, especially after he mimicked Sammy's love taps.

DrCrawdad
06-19-2003, 12:53 PM
I was a bit premature with the "submit" button. Anyways in the Sox pregame I caught the last of the Baseball Insider Bruce Levine's report that the Cubs are scouting for infield help and Jose is one of the guys being considered.

Maybe I misheard Bruce's report. Anyone catch the report?

A.T. Money
06-19-2003, 01:00 PM
Maybe they'll give us Kerry Wood....LOL.

maurice
06-19-2003, 01:04 PM
Good riddance. I'd rather have the scrubs get Valentin than Lowell.

If Valentin goes, who will play SS for us? The options (Graff, Jimenez, ???) are extremely limited and not pretty. We have no decent SS prospects higher than low-A ball.

Mammoo
06-19-2003, 01:07 PM
Valentin has been an admirable White Sox since he arrived in Chicago but I can't believe that a contender would take a chance on such a poor fielder like Jose. :?: A pennant can be won or lost on a critical error that Valentin will most certainly commit.

Tragg
06-19-2003, 01:08 PM
Just wait until we skunk them 6-0 then he can go

Gumshoe
06-19-2003, 01:32 PM
if the Cubs do that. They will win the division with Jose Valentin. You may think I'm kidding, but that kind of move would be one that screams "we're committed to winning" --- because all of us know, even if we have qualms with Jose, he is a WINNER

I hope it doesn't happen, mostly because I would HAVE to root for Jose. What a precarious position ... but who the hell would we put at SS? I guess Jimenez & Miles is the option ... not bad. We should check what this Miles guy can do. I bet he can play better CF than Willie, and he's a better hitter with a bit (albeit less) of speed

Gumshoe

MHOUSE
06-19-2003, 01:55 PM
I wouldn't mind sending Jose to the Flubs. They wouldn't be able to screw the Marlins out of Lowell and I think Jose would help them anyways. What would we get in return. I heard Farnsworth once before in a rumour like this. But I dunno. If the Flubs have any brains they'll just trade for Lowell.

MarqSox
06-19-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
that kind of move would be one that screams "we're committed to winning" --- because all of us know, even if we have qualms with Jose, he is a WINNER


Let's take a step back for a moment ... in his 12-year career, he has won a total of ZERO playoff games. I love the guy, but this isn't exactly Derek Jeter we're talking about there.

39thandWallace
06-19-2003, 03:51 PM
I know Jose is far from a all-star, but you got to love his work ethic. He seems like he is giving 100% every time he plays.

Nellie_Fox
06-19-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by 39thandWallace
I know Jose is far from a all-star, but you got to love his work ethic. He seems like he is giving 100% every time he plays. He's a .240 hitter with some pop from the left side who makes far too many errors. He had one really good year for the Sox, and you guys keep expecting it to happen again. It's not going to.

If his effort and attitude were reflected in his play, he'd be an allstar. But they're not and he's not. I wish more guys on the Sox had his attitude, but unfortunately attitude doesn't always equal winning.

Gumshoe
06-19-2003, 04:20 PM
Sammy hasn't won a playoff game either.

jeremyb1
06-19-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
He's a .240 hitter with some pop from the left side who makes far too many errors. He had one really good year for the Sox, and you guys keep expecting it to happen again. It's not going to.

If his effort and attitude were reflected in his play, he'd be an allstar. But they're not and he's not. I wish more guys on the Sox had his attitude, but unfortunately attitude doesn't always equal winning.

very well put.

gosox41
06-19-2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
If I heard correctly Bruce Levine correctly then the Cubbies are perhaps interested in Jose Valentin.

:KW
My goal is to make life as miserable as possible for Sox fans. What better way to do it then to pull off one of my infamous trades with the Cubs?

hose
06-19-2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
If I heard correctly Bruce Levine correctly then the Cubbies are perhaps interested in Jose Valentin.



Crawdad you are correct , I heard the same report.

Most people are assuming that the Cubs will get Mike Lowell......not so fast.

The Yankees are already looking ahead to next year and are also interested in getting Lowell back from the Marlins.

I heard Steve Stone during the rain delay last night, he mention that Boston is interested in Colon.

St. Louis is going to need relief help, so will Boston.

Jjav829
06-19-2003, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
He's a .240 hitter with some pop from the left side who makes far too many errors. He had one really good year for the Sox, and you guys keep expecting it to happen again. It's not going to.

If his effort and attitude were reflected in his play, he'd be an allstar. But they're not and he's not. I wish more guys on the Sox had his attitude, but unfortunately attitude doesn't always equal winning.

Thank you. You are right on here. I've been saying this for a while. His attitude and hustle are great but 2000 was a fluke (both for him and the team). Hes not a great hitter, hes a bad fielder. Not that his trade value is that high, but if the Flubs come calling then the Sox should trade him.

doublem23
06-19-2003, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by SoxDemon
Maybe they'll give us Kerry Wood....LOL.

Ugh...

Rocklive99
06-19-2003, 09:58 PM
I heard the Dodgers are also interested in Lowell, but the Marlins don't like what LA is offering

Jjav829
06-19-2003, 09:59 PM
BTW, maybe it's time to drop those Joe Crede/Mike Lowell comparisons. Heh.... :smile: .... :(:

SoxxoS
06-19-2003, 10:15 PM
If Moises Alou gets hurt, and that shouldn't even be an "if", I would love to send a package of CLee and Valentin to the cubbies for Juan Cruz and somebody else. I would also love to actually get Alex Gonzalez. He would be a nice fit on the Southside because he 1) Plays defense 2) Hits in the clutch 3) Hits for a decent average with decent pop. That is what we need.
Anything to get Jose Valentin out of here. I can live with CLee, especially if we get a centerfielder with some speed. I CANT live with Valentin and his errors and lack of hitting (the occasional homer just isn't worth it folks).

MHOUSE
06-19-2003, 11:55 PM
No Juan Cruz! He is terrible! Why would anybody want him on their team? The Flubs keep hyping him, but you need to drink a lot of Koolaid to believe it.

MarkEdward
06-20-2003, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
No Juan Cruz! He is terrible! Why would anybody want him on their team? The Flubs keep hyping him, but you need to drink a lot of Koolaid to believe it.

You seem to be underrating Cruz. Remember, he's only 24. He hasn't been very good this year, but he's been better than league average in 142 major league innings (prior to 2003), with 120 Ks in 142 innings. Even though his ERA is 6.39 this year, he does have 29 strikeouts in 25 innings- pretty impressive. His K rate in the minors has been high, so that shows that he could get better.

Right now, I'd take Cruz over Sanders, Glover, or White. He'd make a great long reliever on this team.

Nellie_Fox
06-20-2003, 01:46 AM
Please, no ex-Cubs! Please!

gosox41
06-20-2003, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
If Moises Alou gets hurt, and that shouldn't even be an "if", I would love to send a package of CLee and Valentin to the cubbies for Juan Cruz and somebody else. I would also love to actually get Alex Gonzalez. He would be a nice fit on the Southside because he 1) Plays defense 2) Hits in the clutch 3) Hits for a decent average with decent pop. That is what we need.
Anything to get Jose Valentin out of here. I can live with CLee, especially if we get a centerfielder with some speed. I CANT live with Valentin and his errors and lack of hitting (the occasional homer just isn't worth it folks).

Alex Gonzalez has shown me to be nothing more then a below average hitter in his career. Sure he had a few walk off home runs this season, but I don't think he's the SS answer.

Bob

SoxxoS
06-20-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Alex Gonzalez has shown me to be nothing more then a below average hitter in his career. Sure he had a few walk off home runs this season, but I don't think he's the SS answer.

Bob

Bob-The problem is we have no answer in the minors, and there is no way Jerry is going to fork over the big bucks next year to get a big time FA SS. Hence, I think Alex Gonzalez would work.

Gumshoe
06-20-2003, 10:23 AM
Gonzalez over Valentin? I don't know what games you are watching. Valentin and Gonzalez hit for around the same average, but Gonzalez will NEVER get above .250. Valentin can. And you want another right handed hitter? HA! Anyway, Jose's D is not that bad ... it's not like AG would be an upgrade defensively. Valentin doesn't hit in the clutch? Please. When the team gets going, you'll see him all over the place. IF they fire manuel ... then they MIGHT get going ... then you'll see a bigger Jose

Gum

Spiff
06-20-2003, 10:28 AM
valentin might hit for a better average if he didnt try to crush everything into the upper deck.

voodoochile
06-20-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Spiff
valentin might hit for a better average if he didnt try to crush everything into the upper deck.

Yeah, I hate when players do that, because the only UD at Soxpark is in foul territory... :D:

maurice
06-20-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
Valentin and Gonzalez hit for around the same average, but Gonzalez will NEVER get above .250. Valentin can. . . . Jose's D is not that bad ... it's not like AG would be an upgrade defensively.

Valentin's career AVE is less than .250, his current AVE is .223, his AVE over the last 7 days is .130, and he's on the downside of his career.

Gonzalez has exactly the same career AVE as Valentin. He hasn't hit less than .248 in six years. He is a much better defensive player and has half as many errors as Valentin this season. He's never posted more than 21 errors -- something Valentin has done four times, including two 36+ error seasons. He's also three years younger than Valentin.

Jose is one of the worst starting SSs in baseball and badly needs to be replaced. I'd much rather have EITHER Alex Gonzalez at SS.

SoxxoS
06-20-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Valentin's career AVE is less than .250, his current AVE is .223, his AVE over the last 7 days is .130, and he's on the downside of his career.

Gonzalez has exactly the same career AVE as Valentin. He hasn't hit less than .248 in six years. He is a much better defensive player and has half as many errors as Valentin this season. He's never posted more than 21 errors -- something Valentin has done four times, including two 36+ error seasons. He's also three years younger than Valentin.

Jose is one of the worst starting SSs in baseball and badly needs to be replaced. I'd much rather have EITHER Alex Gonzalez at SS.

Exactly. He has also gotton an awful lot of key hits late in games. As you read this, ask yourself how many Jose Valentin has won for us. Then ask yourself how many he has won.

Jayson Stark's column-

Nobody has had a more fascinating season than Cubs shortstop Alex Gonzalez. He's hit one home run all year in the first nine innings -- but three in extra innings. So if he can keep this up, he can be just the fifth player in history to hit more extra-inning homers in a season than regulation-inning homers. The others, courtesy of the Sultan of Swat Stats, SABR's David Vincent:

Frank Secory, 1946 Cubs -- 3 HRs, 2 in extra innings
Ross Youngs, 1923 Giants -- 3 HRs, 2 in extra innings
Jack Coombs, 1911 A's -- 2 HRs, both in extra innings
Birdie Tebbetts, 1937 Tigers -- 2 HRs, both in extra innings



Gonzalez -- who actually had a fourth extra-inning home run brought back into the park by Geoff Jenkins last Thursday -- is also just the second player in history to hit three extra-inning homers in the same month. The other was Ron Gant, who did it in May, 1995 (against Steve Bedrosian, Brad Clontz and Dave Veres). Gonzalez's three have come off Tim Worrell (May 1), Steve Reed (May 4) and Cal Eldred (May 10).

Only six men, according to David Vincent, have ever hit more extra-inning homers than Gonzalez in a whole season than Gonzalez has hit just this month. It's quite a list:

World of Walkoffs
Other cool walkoff lists from the Sultan:

MOST CAREER WALKOFFS
Babe Ruth 12
Jimmie Foxx 12
Stan Musial 12
Mickey Mantle 12
Frank Robinson 12
Tony Perez 11
Dick Allen 10
Reggie Jackson 10
Mike Schmidt 10
Harold Baines 10

MOST CAREER WALKOFFS BY ACTIVE HITTERS (entering this year)
Jim Thome 9
Sammy Sosa 8
Rafael Palmeiro 7
Juan Gonzalez 7
Larry Walker 7
Barry Bonds 6
Robin Ventura 6
Fred McGriff 6
Vladimir Guerrero 6

But what you may not know is that this stuff is nothing new for Gonzalez. He leads the major leagues this season in walkoff homers, with two. And what player led all major leaguers in walkoff homers last year? Yep, this very same Alex Gonzalez -- with three (most by any National Leaguer since Sammy Sosa hit three in 1996).

Since division play began in 1969, only four players have led the big leagues (or tied for the lead) in game-ending home runs for two straight years: 1972-73 Bobby Bonds. (Tied with Dick Allen, Carlos May and Joe Rudi in 1972. Led outright in '73.)

1987-88 Cory Snyder. (Tied with Will Clark in '87. Tied with Alan Trammell, Steve Balboni and Claudell Washington in '88.)

1994-95 Albert Belle. (Tied with Bob Hamelin and Ray Lankford in '94. Led outright in '95.)

2000-01 Jim Thome. (Seven-way tie in 2000. Led outright in 2001.)


Gonzalez is also halfway to the all-time record for walkoffs in a season -- four, shared by Jimmie Foxx in 1940 and Roy Sievers in 1957. Only Sievers has had two seasons of three or more walkoffs. But of the 24 players who have hit three in a season, 10 have done it just since 1987. Here they are:

Cory Snyder, 1987
Will Clark, 1987
Robin Yount, 1991
Mickey Tettleton, 1992
Albert Belle, 1995
Sammy Sosa, 1996
Rafael Palmeiro, 1998
Matt Stairs, 1999
Jim Thome, 2001
Alex Gonzalez, 2002



Speaking of walkoffs by shortstops, Barry Larkin came off the disabled list last week to hit his first game-ending home run in 13 years. Only five players have ever had longer gaps between walkoffs, according to Vincent:

Cal Ripken, 16 years (7/13/1984 - 4/19/2000)
Gabby Hartnett, 15 years (8/11/1923 - 9/28/1938)
Andres Galarraga, 14 years (8/5/1987 - 8/3/2001)
Edd Roush, 14 years (8/22/1915 - 8/24/1929)
Carl Yastrzemski, 14 years (9/14/1965 - 5/9/1979)

Gumshoe
06-20-2003, 01:22 PM
I still think Jose is responsible for more wins offensively, whether it be SB, sliding into home against Oakland, coming up with a big hit vs. Rivera, hitting a 2 run bomb to take the lead against Minnesota, against KC, he's way more clutch than Gonzalez. I don't think there is a comparison OVERALL ... but that is one cool article. Remember, Jose led the majors most of the year last year in avg. with RISP. And how many games do you expect to go extra innings? Come on. That is not statistically significant, although something should be said about it, and you did.

Cheers,

Gumshoe

maurice
06-20-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
I still think Jose is responsible for more wins offensively, whether it be SB, [etc.] . . . Remember, Jose led the majors most of the year last year in avg. with RISP.

Valentin
SB: 113-for-158 (career)
RISP: .178 (2003)

Gonzalez
SB: 90-for-135 (career)
RISP: .255 (2003)

I can't find their career RISPs, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jose's is higher. The point is that he used to be okay but now he's pretty much done.

maurice
06-20-2003, 01:58 PM
It looks like JM is not only starting the slumping Valentin against a lefty today, he's batting him second.

:chunks