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idseer
08-21-2001, 02:14 PM
i keep seeing frank compared to ted williams (and even babe ruth over in espn board).

frank is a very very good hitter .. avg. and power combination.
not the best avg hitter, not the best power hitter.
however he is not head and shoulders above his contemporaries. even with his hits,bb,rbi,etc streak.

williams, in his career (interrupted during 3 PRIME years), led the league in one of the big 3 catagories (avg., hr, rbi's) 14 times
ruth 19!

in his career, thomas has led in one ONCE!

don't compare this guy to ted williams. it's absurd.

you compare players to players of their own era's. frank in his era has been very very good.

williams in his was tremendous.
ruth was even more tremendous

Spiff
08-21-2001, 02:43 PM
First of all, don't come over here and start ***** for no reason.

Second of all, nobody is saying Frank Thomas is better than Ted Williams or Babe Ruth. But Frank has at least put up the kind of numbers for him to be considered among the greats.

idseer
08-21-2001, 02:49 PM
start sh*t?
i'd say your reply is the kind of thing that starts sh*t!
and don't tell me what i can or cannot post here either.

i gave you my opinion and the reasons for it. you disagree thats your opinion.

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by idseer
williams, in his career (interrupted during 3 PRIME years), led the league in one of the big 3 catagories (avg., hr, rbi's) 14 times
ruth 19!

don't compare this guy to ted williams. it's absurd.

you compare players to players of their own era's. frank in his era has been very very good.


Well it's a different game now as opposed to when Ted played. You have more teams which means worse pitching and smaller ballparks.

Fisk Fan
08-21-2001, 03:53 PM
This is the first time I have heard anyone compare Frank to Williams or Ruth. I just wonder where and/or how this got started!?! Someone must have said something.....

Kilroy
08-21-2001, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Fisk Fan
This is the first time I have heard anyone compare Frank to Williams or Ruth. I just wonder where and/or how this got started!?! Someone must have said something.....

I was thinking the same thing. I have heard Frank Thomas called the best pure RIGHT HANDED hitter of all time, but never the best hitter of all time.

Spiff
08-21-2001, 04:38 PM
He said they were talking about it on the espn board. If they were the ones who said it he should deal with them but the only reason he brought it over here was to start an argument.

Chisox353014
08-21-2001, 04:40 PM
For what it's worth, this from whitesox. com:
has reached the 100 RBI, 100 walks and 100 runs scored plateau for the ninth time in 10 full seasons, third-most in baseball history behind Babe Ruth (12) and Lou Gehrig (11)...

I believe he's also among the all-time leaders in seasons with 100 walks, 100 RBI, 100 runs, 20 HR, and .300 average. I think that's the combo of stats but I may be slightly off on this. Anyone know for sure?

Fisk Fan
08-21-2001, 04:48 PM
He said they were talking about it on the espn board. If they were the ones who said it he should deal with them but the only reason he brought it over here was to start an argument.

I think you're right.

doublem23
08-21-2001, 04:52 PM
I'm not sure, but I feel that the whole point of this is that A) The Big Hurt compares favorably to baseball's immortals when you sit down and look at the numbers. I mean, the years between 1991-1998, this guy was freakin' mind-boggling, and now we want to crucify him for just 2 bad seasons? Jesus. In reality, Sammy Sosa has only had 4 "great" seasons, including this one, (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001), and the Flubbies can't carve his Cooperstown plaque fast enough (and all he's really done is hit a crapload of home runs, when Frank was clearly the more dominant player of the 2)!

B) Don't come here to our board and start ragging on our player. Like him or not, Frank Thomas is OUR superstar. We haven't had a player this big since the days of Nellie Fox, IMHO. Go pick on Clayton, who's not only a bum in the clubhouse, but he's not that great of a player.

And if he comes back next season and carries this team, that will be un****ingbelievable.

voodoochile
08-21-2001, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
For what it's worth, this from whitesox. com:
has reached the 100 RBI, 100 walks and 100 runs scored plateau for the ninth time in 10 full seasons, third-most in baseball history behind Babe Ruth (12) and Lou Gehrig (11)...

I believe he's also among the all-time leaders in seasons with 100 walks, 100 RBI, 100 runs, 20 HR, and .300 average. I think that's the combo of stats but I may be slightly off on this. Anyone know for sure?

Yep, frank and Williams were the only two players in history to put up those stats 8 years in a row. Williams years were seperated by the war years.

FYI, it is me who has regularly made this comparison. This is the only comparison I make betwen the two. IDSEER and I regularly disagree on the ESPN board where I post as JustJim35. I still think the comparison is valid and Frank has had some simply mindboggling years including 1994 (which was obviously cut short) where he had an OPS over 1.2. Like has been said, tough to compare players across time, but Frank's numbers stack up favorably with the best players in history, IMO and there are few if any RH hitters who can compare...

Paulwny
08-21-2001, 05:16 PM
Since it's often easier for me to pick-up Toronto, Cleve; NY and Det. I often listen to the sox games on these stations.Over the years I have often heard opposing announcers compare Frank's numbers with those of Williams and Ruth, it's nothing new.

idseer
08-21-2001, 05:24 PM
excuse me? iguana said the greatest hitter since ted williams. to me that's a comparison. the comparison to ruth came from jj of the other board.
why are you getting so defensive?

i brought it up to see if there was agreement or whatever.
what's the matter with you people?

doublem23
08-21-2001, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by idseer
excuse me? iguana said the greatest hitter since ted williams. to me that's a comparison. the comparison to ruth came from jj of the other board.
why are you getting so defensive?

i brought it up to see if there was agreement or whatever.
what's the matter with you people?

It's been a VERY rough year around here, so we are all on the defensive side, but I, and I am only speaking for myself, HATE it when people come and try and tear down Big Frank. Aside from all that, he is OUR superstar! Like it or not, Frank Thomas will always in someway be compared to the White Sox the same way guys like Charles Comiskey, Ed Walsh, Joe Jackson, Luke Appling, Nellie Fox, Carlton Fisk, and Harold Baines are. He is the player that has defined this generation of White Sox baseball more than anyone else.

idseer
08-21-2001, 05:35 PM
i know it's been rough. and i don't disagree about what you say re FT defining the sox the last 10 years.

i ALSO wasn't tearing him down! i just don't think he's a hof'er yet. if he keeps his numbers up for, say, 3 more years, i'm sure he'll be in the hall.

just saying he's no ted williams.

doublem23
08-21-2001, 05:39 PM
:hurt
I bat righty.

Spiff
08-21-2001, 07:14 PM
No he's a hall of famer.

If Tony Perez is a hall of famer, Frank Thomas is a hall of famer no doubt.

idseer
08-21-2001, 08:08 PM
perez hits-2732 r-1272 hr-379 rbi-1652

thomas hits-1770 r-1091 hr-348 rbi-1193

plus perez was a big part of a dominating team.
i don't think frank's numbers compare ... yet!

as i said .. 3 more years of real productivity would probably clinch it for him. but there's no guarantee he'll come back strong, tho i hope he does.

Spiff
08-21-2001, 08:19 PM
Like you said, Perez was part of a dominating team. So dont you think he had more opportunities to score and drive in runs. He also had more protection in the lineup.

But I will agree, Thomas might need another good year or two to solidify it.

Bucktown
08-21-2001, 09:39 PM
I agree that he is no Ted Williams. But he is a Hall of Famer. Frank is inarguably one of the top three offensive players during the decade of the 90s.

oldcomiskey
08-22-2001, 04:52 PM
Lets go so far as to say that ted Williams was no Frank Thomas either---The Splinter had a short porch at Fenway that did help him--plus the Monster in left---Frank played in a pitchers park his whole career

Paulwny
08-22-2001, 05:36 PM
Agree about the short porch but Williams faced better pitchers then we see today because of expansion.

oldcomiskey
08-22-2001, 05:55 PM
that also worked in his favor because there was no AL baseball west of Chicago...so todays player travels more- also the media scruntiny is horrendous today

Paulwny
08-22-2001, 06:02 PM
Williams also lost 4 prime yrs?? due to military service in WW11 and Korea. He would have put up some awesome numbers. I don't think anyone can compare different era ball players, too many variables.

idseer
08-22-2001, 06:09 PM
yes, williams advantage was a shorter porch (tho it didn't seem to help anyone else that much), ummmmm, what else? ....


frank's advantage is facing much weaker pitching, 8 extra games a year, better travel conditions, better health facilities, livelier ball, didn't have to take over 2 years off smack in the middle of his career, etc, etc, etc. .......

Paulwny
08-22-2001, 06:09 PM
Williams was also attacked by the Boston press as being a one way player, similar to Frank.There was also spitting incident were the press in the entire US attacked him.

idseer
08-22-2001, 06:33 PM
ok i missed your post about travel, old.

yes california is almost twice as far away as boston from chicago.
but i'll wager todays player makes a trip from boston to ca.. in less than half the time it took a train or bus (compare the comfort too) from boston to chicago. doesn't that level the travel field?

oldcomiskey
08-22-2001, 06:40 PM
no what really levels the field is this---this ball is HOT===you put the Splinter with a hot ball and watch--also put Hurt in a bandbox and watch---and going from Boston to California is the same no matter how you travel

MarqSox
08-22-2001, 07:55 PM
:troll

FACT: Frank Thomas is the ONLY player in Major League history to bat .300 or better with at least 20 home runs, 100 RBI, 100 walks and 100 runs scored in SEVEN CONSECUTIVE SEASONS (1991-98)!

That's something the Babe never did, something Ted might have done had the war not hit. Either way, he definitely deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as them.

Facts don't lie.

:hurt
See, I'm good.