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Meixner007
06-16-2003, 10:05 PM
THat's the sound of the twinkees putting up 8 runs in the 7th, 8th, and 9th. ****!!!!!!

BearSox
06-16-2003, 10:07 PM
Mike Macdougal is entering Rick White territory :angry:

Konerkoholic
06-16-2003, 10:08 PM
That's a collapse if I've ever seen one.

Meixner007
06-16-2003, 10:19 PM
phew, kc wins by putting up a run in the ninth :gulp:

Konerkoholic
06-16-2003, 10:21 PM
YES!!!

MRKARNO
06-16-2003, 10:21 PM
Eddie Guardado must love making games closer than they have to be. Thank god he's losing them lately

BearSox
06-16-2003, 10:21 PM
WTG Royals! 6.5 games back, twins been scuffling as of late

gosox41
06-17-2003, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Meixner007
THat's the sound of the twinkees putting up 8 runs in the 7th, 8th, and 9th. ****!!!!!!

Which shows a key diference between the Sox and Minnesota. Minnesota believes they can win and never stops fighting, the Sox roll over and play dead. How many coemback wins do they have this year comapred to the Sox? How many games have they made 1-2 run games after being down more then 5? It seems like they're always fighting it out.

Bob

boog_alou
06-17-2003, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by BearSox
WTG Royals! 6.5 games back, twins been scuffling as of late

Sox fans shouldn't be happy about the Royals beating the Twins. Realistically the Twins are out of reach. The Sox need to keep the Royals in their sights and within reach. Second place in the AL Central would be a moral victory for the Sox this season.

voodoochile
06-17-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by boog_alou
Sox fans shouldn't be happy about the Royals beating the Twins. Realistically the Twins are out of reach. The Sox need to keep the Royals in their sights and within reach. Second place in the AL Central would be a moral victory for the Sox this season.

:troll

*****! What kind of weak ass logic is that? That stuff will cut it on the troll board, but here it will get you sent packing... Just because the fans are down on the team doesn't give you the right to start talking trash. Consider this a warning...

oh... and have a wonderful day... :D:

ScottyTheSoxFan
06-17-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
:troll

*****! What kind of weak ass logic is that? That stuff will cut it on the troll board, but here it will get you sent packing... Just because the fans are down on the team doesn't give you the right to start talking trash. Consider this a warning...

oh... and have a wonderful day... :D:

boog alou's profile claims he is the anti-sox fan. i didnt see that coming

boog_alou
06-17-2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by boog_alou


Sox fans shouldn't be happy about the Royals beating the Twins. Realistically the Twins are out of reach. The Sox need to keep the Royals in their sights and within reach. Second place in the AL Central would be a moral victory for the Sox this season.


Originally posted by voodoochile


:troll

*****! What kind of weak ass logic is that? That stuff will cut it on the troll board, but here it will get you sent packing... Just because the fans are down on the team doesn't give you the right to start talking trash. Consider this a warning...

oh... and have a wonderful day... :D:

Interesting. What was the out-of-line?

As with MANY Sox fans on this board, I think the Sox are out of it and the Twins are out of reach. The Sox have two and only two good, reliable starting pitchers. The Sox bullpen is unreliable and the Sox offense is anemic. Even if underperforming guys like Konerko and Lee turn it on, there are still rookies who haven't panned out and certainly can't be expected to this season.

So, honestly, it looks like the Sox are in a race for second place. I'm not saying anything that Sox fans on this board haven't said dozens upon dozens of times.

Am I wrong?

voodoochile
06-17-2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by boog_alou
Am I wrong?

Yes.

Gumshoe
06-17-2003, 10:45 AM
First, I don't believe the Sox will beat the Twins out.

But you are DEAD WRONG that the Sox have only 2 good pitchers. They have 4, and that's why they could still (10% chance) make it a race. I think you'll be surprised how quickly Crede and Konerko will turn it on with the other guys feeding off that now that Thomas has totally changed his tune. Magglio hasn't really hit either. Is that going to last? NO. They'll turn it on, and big, most likely, but it won't be enough. The bullpen outside of Marte/Wunsch does suck, and JM doesn't know how to use it to win, but still the Sox could go on a run because you know what? The Twins aren't that good. Their starters and bullpen are starting to show major weaknesses. Their O has been better in the last 2 weeks though.

As I said, I don't think the Sox will do it, but it IS possible.

Gumshoe

boog_alou
06-17-2003, 10:51 AM
Voodoochile, I just want to figure out the rules here. Are you saying that something I posted violated the board rules, or that you just didn't like it for whatever reason and so I am in danger of getting booted?

voodoochile
06-17-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by boog_alou
Voodoochile, I just want to figure out the rules here. Are you saying that something I posted violated the board rules, or that you just didn't like it for whatever reason and so I am in danger of getting booted?

Take your pick. This is a board for Sox fans to discuss their team. Trolling is NOT allowed. You want an example of someone who doesn't feel second place is as good as this team can do this year? You are reading that person's post. The other posters add something to the conversation beyond their negative feelings. You do not. That is the difference between trolling and being upset with your team. I think you are smart enough to figure this out, but maybe I overestimated your IQ.

boog_alou
06-17-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
First, I don't believe the Sox will beat the Twins out.

But you are DEAD WRONG that the Sox have only 2 good pitchers. They have 4, and that's why they could still (10% chance) make it a race. I think you'll be surprised how quickly Crede and Konerko will turn it on with the other guys feeding off that now that Thomas has totally changed his tune. Magglio hasn't really hit either. Is that going to last? NO. They'll turn it on, and big, most likely, but it won't be enough. The bullpen outside of Marte/Wunsch does suck, and JM doesn't know how to use it to win, but still the Sox could go on a run because you know what? The Twins aren't that good. Their starters and bullpen are starting to show major weaknesses. Their O has been better in the last 2 weeks though.

As I said, I don't think the Sox will do it, but it IS possible.

Gumshoe

4 good starting pitchers? They certainly haven't shown that this season. Buehrle has a good shot to improve, but Loaiza has just as good a chance of falling back to his career averages. And Garland is as inconsistent as a starting pitcher can be. You can count on some good starts from him, but also some really horrible ones. He as been EXTREMELY consistent at being inconsistent. If you can count on anything from him, it is his inconsistency. Yes, the offense should improve, but I agree that it won't be enough.

And Sox fans consistently bash the Twins, despite their success this season and for the two seasons prior to this one. They have some starting pitching problems, but Santana is there to pick up at least some of the slack. Their bullpen is good, not the great aberration they were last year, but I think they've proven they are for real. And this young offense is showing some genuine improvement. I think they are a lock to win the Central and win at least 90 games. Not a great team, but clearly better than their ALC competition.

boog_alou
06-17-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Take your pick. This is a board for Sox fans to discuss their team. Trolling is NOT allowed. You want an example of someone who doesn't feel second place is as good as this team can do this year? You are reading that person's post. The other posters add something to the conversation beyond their negative feelings. You do not. That is the difference between trolling and being upset with your team. I think you are smart enough to figure this out, but maybe I overestimated your IQ.

Right, trolling is not allowed, but dissenting opinions are allowed (or so I have been told). I have also been told that you don't need to be a Sox fan to post here. I was just giving my honest opinion that the Sox have no real shot at winning the division and so they should focus on taking second place from the Royals. As with many (but not all) Sox fans, I don't think this is their year.

I think I have given quite a few solid arguments in this thread as to why I think the Sox are a second or third place team in this division. My opinion has been well supported.

Fridaythe13thJason
06-17-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by boog_alou
4 good starting pitchers? They certainly haven't shown that this season. Buehrle has a good shot to improve, but Loaiza has just as good a chance of falling back to his career averages. And Garland is as inconsistent as a starting pitcher can be. You can count on some good starts from him, but also some really horrible ones. He as been EXTREMELY consistent at being inconsistent. If you can count on anything from him, it is his inconsistency. Yes, the offense should improve, but I agree that it won't be enough.

And Sox fans consistently bash the Twins, despite their success this season and for the two seasons prior to this one. They have some starting pitching problems, but Santana is there to pick up at least some of the slack. Their bullpen is good, not the great aberration they were last year, but I think they've proven they are for real. And this young offense is showing some genuine improvement. I think they are a lock to win the Central and win at least 90 games. Not a great team, but clearly better than their ALC competition.

You obviously have no ears. Shut up. I don't need little punks coming in here and ruining my optimistic happy day. Couple your annoyingness with your idiocy, and it makes you doubly annoying. Why does Loaiza have a good chance of reverting back? We're halfway through the season...

Fridaythe13thJason
06-17-2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by boog_alou
Right, trolling is not allowed, but dissenting opinions are allowed (or so I have been told). I have also been told that you don't need to be a Sox fan to post here. I was just giving my honest opinion that the Sox have no real shot at winning the division and so they should focus on taking second place from the Royals. As with many (but not all) Sox fans, I don't think this is their year.

I think I have given quite a few solid arguments in this thread as to why I think the Sox are a second or third place team in this division. My opinion has been well supported.

Secondly, do you watch baseball? Have you ever? Baseball is not a sport where you play for second place (unless you're the wild card). This isn't NASCAR or Golf or Swimming...second place means nothing. You set your sights on the leader and go for it. We're far from out of it (is it likely, no) but its been done before so that is your goal.

voodoochile
06-17-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by boog_alou
Right, trolling is not allowed, but dissenting opinions are allowed (or so I have been told). I have also been told that you don't need to be a Sox fan to post here. I was just giving my honest opinion that the Sox have no real shot at winning the division and so they should focus on taking second place from the Royals. As with many (but not all) Sox fans, I don't think this is their year.

I think I have given quite a few solid arguments in this thread as to why I think the Sox are a second or third place team in this division. My opinion has been well supported.

You have one and it is only after you were warned to talk baseball or else. I'm done discussing this. You can stay or go. It is your call, but at some point it won't be if you keep it up.

This is not a democracy and I really don't care what you have been told by someone who doesn't work here. I do and I am letting you know the rules now.

BTW, your logic about the Sox pitching sucks. I guess time will tell what the truth is, but have you actually watched these guys perform this year or do you just read the box scores?

boog_alou
06-17-2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by SoCalUIC
You obviously have no ears. Shut up. I don't need little punks coming in here and ruining my optimistic happy day. Couple your annoyingness with your idiocy, and it makes you doubly annoying. Why does Loaiza have a good chance of reverting back? We're halfway through the season...

Look at it this way. Why do you think Buerhle has a good chance to reverting to the pitcher he has been throughout his major league career? (assuming you do) I think Buerhle has proven how good he is and will revert to that kind of performance because that is how good he is. Similarly, I think Loaiza has proven how mediocre he is and will revert to those kind of numbers. I am skeptical about a renaissance at this point in his career because that kind of thing is extremely rare.

boog_alou
06-17-2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by SoCalUIC
Secondly, do you watch baseball? Have you ever? Baseball is not a sport where you play for second place (unless you're the wild card). This isn't NASCAR or Golf or Swimming...second place means nothing. You set your sights on the leader and go for it. We're far from out of it (is it likely, no) but its been done before so that is your goal.

Sure, they should aim for first. My point is that second place seems about as good as the Sox can reasonably hope for (in my opinion)....for the reasons that I have given throughout this thread.

boog_alou
06-17-2003, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You have one and it is only after you were warned to talk baseball or else. I'm done discussing this. You can stay or go. It is your call, but at some point it won't be if you keep it up.

This is not a democracy and I really don't care what you have been told by someone who doesn't work here. I do and I am letting you know the rules now.

BTW, your logic about the Sox pitching sucks. I guess time will tell what the truth is, but have you actually watched these guys perform this year or do you just read the box scores?

I'm still kind of fuzzy on the rules. "No trolling allowed" is a common refrain, but the various moderators on this board seem to differ on what that means. I assume if I give stats and voluminous argumentation with every single comment I make, then perhaps that is not simply trolling. Or is trolling anything that is said that isn't positive about the Sox?

My logic about the Sox pitching sucks? Care to give me any counterargumentation or is that all? Yes, I do watch many Sox games. I live in NYC, but I have MLB Extra Innings, which allows me many opportunities to see them.

Fridaythe13thJason
06-17-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by boog_alou
Look at it this way. Why do you think Buerhle has a good chance to reverting to the pitcher he has been throughout his major league career? (assuming you do) I think Buerhle has proven how good he is and will revert to that kind of performance because that is how good he is. Similarly, I think Loaiza has proven how mediocre he is and will revert to those kind of numbers. I am skeptical about a renaissance at this point in his career because that kind of thing is extremely rare.

No, I think Buehrle has a good chance because of the starts he has shown us this year. On multiple occassions, he has thrown great, only to take a loss because the offense doesn't know where the ball is.

It's the same reason many of us think Garland will turn the corner. IIRC 4 of his last 5 starts have been quality.

voodoochile
06-17-2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by boog_alou
I'm still kind of fuzzy on the rules. "No trolling allowed" is a common refrain, but the various moderators on this board seem to differ on what that means. I assume if I give stats and voluminous argumentation with every single comment I make, then perhaps that is not simply trolling. Or is trolling anything that is said that isn't positive about the Sox?

My logic about the Sox pitching sucks? Care to give me any counterargumentation or is that all? Yes, I do watch many Sox games. I live in NYC, but I have MLB Extra Innings, which allows me many opportunities to see them.

Yes, you ignore the obvious strides that Garland has made this year, reeling off several solid starts in a row at a time the team needed him most, and he is still damned young - but improving. Loaiza clearly isn't the same pitcher he was before and the increased use of his changeup has been well documented as the main reason why. Buehrle and Colon are Buehrle and Colon. Wright is where Garland was last year - but seeing as he is the 5th starter and still finding his groove after returning to the team in May, that's okay.

See, most people expect young pitchers to improve and realize that some veteran pitchers suddenly get it together. You assume that won't be the case, because you dislike the Sox. Your bias blunts your analysis. That is why your logic sucks.

boog_alou
06-17-2003, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by SoCalUIC
It's the same reason many of us think Garland will turn the corner. IIRC 4 of his last 5 starts have been quality.

For Garland, how does this season differ from last season? In 2002, he had some good starts, some great starts, some bad starts and some horrible starts. And his overall ERA was mediocre-to-poor. That sounds like a good description of this season as well, except his ERA is .26 higher this year.

I just think that after three years of wild inconsistency (1/2 season in 2000, full seasons in 2001 and 2002, and a 1/2 season this year), he's proven that this is the kind of pitcher he is.

boog_alou
06-17-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
See, most people expect young pitchers to improve and realize that some veteran pitchers suddenly get it together. You assume that won't be the case, because you dislike the Sox. Your bias blunts your analysis. That is why your logic sucks.

The problem with your logic is that some young pitchers improve. But, most prospects, even highly touted ones, don't pan out. Some of the Sox young pitchers will pan out and some won't. I'm basing my opinions on the Sox pitchers on what they have done in their major league careers. Garland and Wright haven't done much, except show a lot of inconsistency and bad overall stats.

And yes, some veteran pitchers suddenly get it together, but if you are being honest about this, you will admit that it is exceedingly rare.

I have some anti-Sox bias that affects my analysis. By the same token, you must admit that your pro-Sox bias blunts your analysis as well.

i_luv_jgarland
06-17-2003, 04:52 PM
1. Why does booger spend so much time watching, analyzing, commenting on, and irritating the Sox and thier fans? Does he not have anything else to be doing?

2. Why does booger keep picking on my Jonny boy?? He's finally pulling it together.. is that so wrong?

3. Seriously, doesn't he have ANYTHING else to be doing?? A job to go to? A garden to water? A sock drawer to organize?

4. Why does E=mc^2?