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View Full Version : This is getting out of hand...


doublem23
08-21-2001, 02:57 PM
Reader's beware, this article is sickening!

I hope no one's already posted this... (http://www.chicagosports.com/columnists/content/column/0,2007,159884,00.html)

:shammy
Sam Smith and I are tight...

Soxboyrob
08-21-2001, 03:02 PM
You may not like the message, but it's essentially correct. Sosa, playing as he currently is, is better than any other past or current Chicago player. Nobody can take away what Frank was able to do from an offensive standpoint during the early to mid '90's, but Sosa, like him or not, is a one man wrecking crew. I wish we had a guy w/ his desire on our team.

Paulwny
08-21-2001, 03:06 PM
East Coast Spin on Sosa



http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/ny-hey142308844aug14.column?coll=ny%2Dsports%2Dcolumn ists

Iwritecode
08-21-2001, 03:22 PM
You know, if you take Sosa's career numbers and put them next to Thomas's they are remarkably similiar. A few stick out though:

Strikeouts, Sosa does that WAY more often than Frank.

Career average, Sosa is .285 or so? Frank is over .300 I believe.

Homeruns. That has to do with Sosa hitting 60+ the past few seasons. I've never actually taken the time to go back and see how many were in a losing effort. I'm guessing 70 - 75% were.

Sosa even managed to lead his team to a wildcard berth because the Giants lost.

Wow, they call this the best in Chicago?

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 03:25 PM
Wow, they call this the best in Chicago?

It's because of the homers and the entertainment value that he has.

Soxboyrob
08-21-2001, 04:35 PM
If you want to compare careers, Frank might beat out Sammy in several categories, but if you want to compare the best few years of each guys' career, I'd probably take Sammy. Frank was never as good in any year as Sammy is this year. Trust me, I'm no Cub fan, but I'd take Sammy on this team over Frank in a second. Plus, Sammy doesn't spend 99% of his time w/ his foot planted in his mouth like Frank does.

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
Plus, Sammy doesn't spend 99% of his time w/ his foot planted in his mouth like Frank does.

Frank says stupid things off the field. Sosa does stupid things on the field.

Soxboyrob
08-21-2001, 04:52 PM
The difference being that the stupid things that Big Fat says has an alienating effect on the fans while the supposed stupid things that Sammy does on the field pleases both his fans and the media. Again, I'd prefer Sammy at this point.

Fisk Fan
08-21-2001, 04:58 PM
The difference being that the stupid things that Big Fat says has an alienating effect on the fans while the supposed stupid things that Sammy does on the field pleases both his fans and the media. Again, I'd prefer Sammy at this point.

I would rather have a guy that speaks the truth than a showboating, stats-hog like So-So. All the guy cares about is his numbers and playing to the cameras. He is a publicists dream!

Soxboyrob
08-21-2001, 05:02 PM
I've heard on several occasions that Frank cares more about his own stats than anyone else on the team. Nobody minds that he speaks the truth. It's the ridiculous way with which he does it.

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
The difference being that the stupid things that Big Fat says has an alienating effect on the fans while the supposed stupid things that Sammy does on the field pleases both his fans and the media. Again, I'd prefer Sammy at this point.

Frank Thomas is not the reason people don't come to the park.
This man is:
:reinsy
"Fans Fault"

So because Sosa's act pleases the media it makes it ok? If you prefer Sosa that's fine your welcome to your opinion. I myself like Frank more.

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
I've heard on several occasions that Frank cares more about his own stats than anyone else on the team. Nobody minds that he speaks the truth. It's the ridiculous way with which he does it.

Well he proved that last year when he screwed up his swing because he was trying to catch Glaus for the home run title. Frank just needs to be quiet and play the game. I really don't care what Thomas says as long as he hits and plays well. When your playing like crap and saying stupid things that's when it becomes a problem.

Soxboyrob
08-21-2001, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel

So because Sosa's act pleases the media it makes it ok? If you prefer Sosa that's fine your welcome to your opinion. I myself like Frank more.

Which part of Frank's act do you like more?...is it the way he smirks and sneers at the ump every time an inside strike is called on him, or is it the constant pouting and head shaking? At least Sosa's show is done in a fan friendly and a fun way. Am I condoning it? Not really. Some of Sammy's stuff is overdone, but it isn't really hurting anything and he's amassed enough numbers to have earned the right to showboat a little. Isn't it sometimes fun to have a guy showboat a little, especially if he's good enough to live up to the hype? Remember Muhammad Ali? I liked him too.

Jerry_Manuel
08-21-2001, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
Which part of Frank's act do you like more?...is it the way he smirks and sneers at the ump every time an inside strike is called on him, or is it the constant pouting and head shaking? At least Sosa's show is done in a fan friendly and a fun way. Am I condoning it? Not really. Some of Sammy's stuff is overdone, but it isn't really hurting anything and he's amassed enough numbers to have earned the right to showboat a little. Isn't it sometimes fun to have a guy showboat a little, especially if he's good enough to live up to the hype? Remember Muhammad Ali? I liked him too.

I don't want to turn this into a who is better thing. Everyone has problems with the umps. Frank just shows it more then anyone else. He is a pretty good judge of the strike zone in my opinion, if you judge by his walk totals I think you would agree. Thomas isn't really an excitement type player like Sosa. Perhaps that is because he is DH while Sosa plays the field. There's nothing wrong with being a show boat like Ali was as long as you can back it up, which Sosa does.

Soxboyrob
08-21-2001, 05:37 PM
Anyway, I think we're on the same track. I want nothing more for Frank to return to posting ungodly numbers that defy history. I want for this guy to take hitting to an all new level. It's sad to see how he's fallen out of favor w/ so many Chicago fans. I remember when I'd be talking w/ Cub fans and even they would say "Wow, Frank is just a hitting God!" Lets hope he can get back to his pre-strike form.

voodoochile
08-21-2001, 05:41 PM
I am no Sosa fan, but his OPS of 1.15+ this season is just plain ridiculous. For the first time he is doing it all at the plate. I have recently acquired a roommate who is a big Flubbie fan, and one of the smarter ones. He is not a delusional mope, like most of them. As a result I have been watching more flubbie games recently. ShamME has been just flat on fire... Yeah, he is a prima donna and a glory hog, but his stats this year speak for themself...

Fisk Fan
08-21-2001, 05:45 PM
I must agree. He has got the big hits when they really needed them, and has added some meaningless home-runs along the way.

I heard a stat that So-So has more RBI's than the #2 and #3 RBI leaders combined on the Flubs. That's pretty consistent.

doublem23
08-21-2001, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
You may not like the message, but it's essentially correct. Sosa, playing as he currently is, is better than any other past or current Chicago player. Nobody can take away what Frank was able to do from an offensive standpoint during the early to mid '90's, but Sosa, like him or not, is a one man wrecking crew. I wish we had a guy w/ his desire on our team.

No. You can't just have 4 really good seasons and suddenly be the toast of the town! Where was he before 1998? Huh? I'm sure you'd like an ego like Sosa here too. Remember last season, when he personally torpedoed his team because his $11 million contract wasn't good enough for him? Until Payrod came around, he was, essentially, the poster boy for the greedy athlete.

As for the bat, sure, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want a 50-60 HR guy on our team, but the whole package? Errr.... That's iffy.

:shammy
Thanks, Alex

:payrod
No problem, Sammy. Us superstars gotta stick together.

Soxboyrob
08-21-2001, 06:07 PM
Your points are a bit of a stretch. He's had 4 really good seasons, but has had several other solid to very good seasons. Heck, I remember about 6 yrs ago when he was on a 50+ HR pace until an injury shelved him for the last 1/4 of the season.

Did he almost personally torpedo his team or was that more of a media creation? I personally don't know, but have noticed that the Cubs coincidentally got better w/ the launching of Mr. Grace, whom has often been referred to as a clubhouse lawyer.

If you wanna talk greedy athlete, I'd look back at Thomas. The guy had one year out of the last three that was worthy of his pay and the guy starts publicly whining and crying. Sammy wasn't asking so much for a raise as an extention--one he very much deserved.

doublem23
08-21-2001, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
Did he almost personally torpedo his team or was that more of a media creation? I personally don't know, but have noticed that the Cubs coincidentally got better w/ the launching of Mr. Grace, whom has often been referred to as a clubhouse lawyer.

I think that during that whole trading controversy, the Cubs won like 12 games out of 40 or so. They really nosedived when Sammy wanted out.

Originally posted by Soxboyrob
If you wanna talk greedy athlete, I'd look back at Thomas. The guy had one year out of the last three that was worthy of his pay and the guy starts publicly whining and crying. Sammy wasn't asking so much for a raise as an extention--one he very much deserved.

Well, I never said Frank is an angel. This is probably my bias towards Frank getting in the way... But I still don't think 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 good years (up to that point) buy you an excuse to wreak havoc on your team during the season.
In essence, neither of them are probably 100% role models anyways.