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View Full Version : Is there any real way to get JR to sell?


Gumshoe
06-15-2003, 10:51 PM
WHAT can we do? I wouldn't mind creating a special committee and suing Reinsdorf --- it is unconstitutional to put us in this situation of cruel and unusual punishment ---> watching an organization that is so terrible and refuses to admit that they don't hold themselves accountable and/or have any desire to really win.

Gumshoe

PaleHoseGeorge
06-15-2003, 11:04 PM
There is no direct way to make Reinsdorf sell the ballclub. He is just stubborn enough to think he can outlive all of us and get the last laugh inside the championship clubhouse.

:reinsy
"I'm sure Sox Fans are all glad to be WRONG about what a soulless bitter old man I truly am!"

However, there is hope. JR only owns a small percentage of the Sox. He is the managing partner for a much larger ownership syndicate. As before when he ran Balcor, Jerry Reinsdorf is quite literally in the business of O.P.M, "other people's money."

The key to getting rid of Reinsdorf is start an insurrection among his fellow owners in the syndicate. While we know JR would never willingly leave on his own accord, these other owners have the ways and means to make his life a living hell and well beyond what he would tolerate. Depending on their own bylaws, they could even force him out.

Forget about going after Jerry. Go after his partners instead. There must be at least a few of them that already know he has ruined this franchise.

:selljerry

ShoelessFred
06-15-2003, 11:05 PM
what do these guys own so we can BOYCOTT

their asses!

PaleHoseGeorge
06-15-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by ShoelessFred
what do these guys own so we can BOYCOTT
their asses!

This needs to be investigated because even I'm not sure who else owns the Sox. IIRC back in '81, quite a few of the new owners were formerly minority partners from the Bill Veeck and John Allyn ownership groups, too. I'm pretty sure most of them still live and/or conduct business in Chicago.

These people are ripe targets. It's only through their acquiescence that Reinsdorf maintains control of the franchise.

:selljerry

Hangar18
06-15-2003, 11:52 PM
this sounds really crude, but I think JR really needs a quick
rap to the head. In his eyes, he thinks the fans are OK with
the direction this teams taken the last few years. He needs
to understand that He has fallen Way Out of Touch. I want to know WHO is responsible for deciding to go after the suburban
"families" to come to the games. It was a tragic mistake.....

39thandWallace
06-16-2003, 12:17 AM
It is unbelievable that people can't believe no one comes out to the games even when they win.

This guy threatens to move the team to Sarasota in the late 80's, then build's the biggest outdoor crap hole stadium in the major's.

I wonder how long it will be before there is advertisements on the uniform's themselves.

MHOUSE
06-16-2003, 02:42 AM
The only hope would be to boycott the Sox. Hard as it would be, in 2004 nobody gets season tickets and nobody goes to the games. Picket outside the stadium. Once he starting losing money, JR would bail. The team would suck, but no guts no glory right? Weed out the cancer and move on. That would be a wild time. Isn't that what it was in the 60s? Take it to the streets!

Nellie_Fox
06-16-2003, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by 39thandWallace
This guy threatens to move the team to Sarasota in the late 80's, then builds the biggest outdoor crap hole stadium in the majors. I will never understand the out-of-control hatred directed toward new Comiskey. It's just not that bad of a ballpark.

Anywhere in the lower bowl is good viewing. The upper deck is pretty much the same as all the other new ballparks. Just because it doesn't have phoney, manufactured gingerbread and angles in the outfield? It's a great place to watch a ballgame.

fquaye149
06-16-2003, 04:22 AM
the problem is, seats in the lower bowl are limited and much of it is reserved for season ticket holders who don't even show up. it's not quite akin to wrigley's practices, but if i were to travel 3 and a half hours to see the sox play i want the option to have the best possible seats available...and they just aren't. i wish they would offer reserve standby seating or something there since they will only pack the stadium for the a.s. game and maybe the cubs series.

39thandWallace
06-16-2003, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox
I will never understand the out-of-control hatred directed toward new Comiskey. It's just not that bad of a ballpark.

Anywhere in the lower bowl is good viewing. The upper deck is pretty much the same as all the other new ballparks. Just because it doesn't have phoney, manufactured gingerbread and angles in the outfield? It's a great place to watch a ballgame.

It does have good sight lines if you have season tickets on the 100 level.

I do, but before this year I almost always was in the 500 level (upper deck).

These seats suck, you can't tell the difference between a routine pop up and a homerun because your in the upper hemisphere. I have only been in Wrigley, Miller Park, and old Comiskey. But, I find it hard to believe there is another park that will treat you as lousy as (the cell) does. They build a new fan deck and the average guy can't even check it out.

Dadawg_77
06-16-2003, 09:50 AM
There is never been a game (Playoff and Cubs Games excluded) where I couldn't walk up and get 100 level seats since the 2000 season. I have bought club level seats, 25 rows behind home plate, bleachers, right field seats.

But if I win this Pepsi billion sweepstakes, I make a offer they couldn't refuse.

Procol Harum
06-16-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77

But if I win this Pepsi billion sweepstakes, I make a offer they couldn't refuse.

There's our strategy! Reinsdorf is gone--it's in the bag!! :cool:

Gumshoe
06-16-2003, 11:13 AM
I'm all about that picketing idea. If someone calls for it, I'm there, no questions asked. You have to think that without AS game next year, with a potential trade coming again to piss off Sox fans, everyone will be calling for JR's head and maybe there will be a shot to put some major pressure on next year.

It's time to act, or else we won't win FOR SURE for like 10 more years.

Gumshoe

ps - as a side note, I do agree with you Nellie, I think Comiskey is a fine place to watch a game. Yankee Stadium's UDeck sucks, and all the western ballparks are equally as high. The lower deck at Comiskey is as good as anywhere to watch, AND there are no beams blocking your view. If we win, no one cares, they come to see the Sox win. No one complained from 91-94, did they? Of course not. In any case I think that a new smart owner would push for a replica of Old Comiskey when time comes for a new stadium (remember, Cincy only had their park for like 25 and they got a new one). Hey, 10 more years!

xil357
06-16-2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe


ps - as a side note, I do agree with you Nellie, I think Comiskey is a fine place to watch a game. Yankee Stadium's UDeck sucks, and all the western ballparks are equally as high. The lower deck at Comiskey is as good as anywhere to watch, AND there are no beams blocking your view. If we win, no one cares, they come to see the Sox win. No one complained from 91-94, did they? Of course not. In any case I think that a new smart owner would push for a replica of Old Comiskey when time comes for a new stadium (remember, Cincy only had their park for like 25 and they got a new one). Hey, 10 more years!

Again, perception vs. reality. The vacuous lemmings have bought the Tribune-fueled perception that the upper deck is too steep hook, line and sinker. But winning cures all. Since the 94 strike, the 95 "bend over and give it up" fiasco and the 97 White Flag, this team has not been a winner other than in 2000.

Jerry's partners need to be hit up and hard. They need to be e-mailed by everyone here at WSI and their other businesses must be boycotted. Boycotting the Sox only fuels the media perception that Sox fans are fair-weather frauds (and just might lead to threats of moving or contraction), but persistently targetting the owners' other business interests -- while continuing to support the team -- shows depth, insight and intelligence.

gosox41
06-16-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
WHAT can we do? I wouldn't mind creating a special committee and suing Reinsdorf --- it is unconstitutional to put us in this situation of cruel and unusual punishment ---> watching an organization that is so terrible and refuses to admit that they don't hold themselves accountable and/or have any desire to really win.

Gumshoe

:sopranos
Make him an offer he can't refuse.

gosox41
06-16-2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by ShoelessFred
what do these guys own so we can BOYCOTT

their asses!

The Bulls.

From what I hear, a lot of JR's partners are older and probalby near retirement. I've heard that his "syndicate" or whatever you want to call it is made up of a lot of doctors and real estate tycoons.

Bob

gosox41
06-16-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
The only hope would be to boycott the Sox. Hard as it would be, in 2004 nobody gets season tickets and nobody goes to the games. Picket outside the stadium. Once he starting losing money, JR would bail. The team would suck, but no guts no glory right? Weed out the cancer and move on. That would be a wild time. Isn't that what it was in the 60s? Take it to the streets!

Why not picket the team now? I suggested this about a month ago (along with a letter writing campaign.) There is power in numbers. The time to really boycott and picket would be when the media spotlight is on the team and the city...during the All Star game. Start picketing now and it would attract a ton more attention then to picket a really crappy team next season when the media goes back to ignroing the Sox.

Bob

Hullett_Fan
06-16-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by xil357
Again, perception vs. reality. The vacuous lemmings have bought the Tribune-fueled perception that the upper deck is too steep hook, line and sinker. But winning cures all. Since the 94 strike, the 95 "bend over and give it up" fiasco and the 97 White Flag, this team has not been a winner other than in 2000.

I'm not a "vacuous lemming" but having sat in the UD I will say that it's WAY too steep and it's friggin stupid to have the entrance at the bottom as opposed to the middle of the deck! I sat 2 rows from the top for a Cubs game last year, went to the restroom and decided not to climb back up for fear of having a heart attack. It SUCKS.

The lower deck is great if the Sox are winning. Unfortunately, like the UD, this team sucks.

Dadawg_77
06-16-2003, 12:27 PM
One of the partners, Siegel is being indicted in federal court for Insurance fraud. Not sure if he is found guilty if he will have to sell or give up his ownership in the club and how that would effect the partnership. So maybe a rigged jury could help :)

voodoochile
06-16-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by gosox41


Why not picket the team now? I suggested this about a month ago (along with a letter writing campaign.) There is power in numbers. The time to really boycott and picket would be when the media spotlight is on the team and the city...during the All Star game. Start picketing now and it would attract a ton more attention then to picket a really crappy team next season when the media goes back to ignroing the Sox.

Bob

I think picketing is a great idea. Especially around the AS game when there will be a major national media presence and lots of local guys to cover the efforts. The message will have to be very clear. Something along the lines of...

"Hey Reinsy, it isn't the ballpark, it isn't the players, it isn't the fans, it's you. Sell Jerry Sell!"

Originally posted by Dadawg_77
One of the partners, Siegel is being indicted in federal court for Insurance fraud. Not sure if he is found guilty if he will have to sell or give up his ownership in the club and how that would effect the partnership. So maybe a rigged jury could help.

I like it. I will be glad to contribute to the bribe the jury to break up the consortium fund. Better yet, I'll collect the money :D:

whitesoxwilkes
06-16-2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
The Bulls.

From what I hear, a lot of JR's partners are older and probalby near retirement. I've heard that his "syndicate" or whatever you want to call it is made up of a lot of doctors and real estate tycoons.

Bob

It's also made up of at least 3 traders from the Chicago Board of Trade and the founder of a huge discount brokerage company.

Gumshoe
06-16-2003, 12:50 PM
GREAT CALL. I'M IN. Let's organize it. Picket this crap during the All Star game, hell yeah. It would show up Reinsdorf so much he couldn't stand it. This is an opportunity that we can't waste if we really feel that he is the cause of all this BS. How do we get 100s of people out there. Where, right on 35th by Gate 3 and the walk up ticket booths?

Gumshoe

gosox41
06-16-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
GREAT CALL. I'M IN. Let's organize it. Picket this crap during the All Star game, hell yeah. It would show up Reinsdorf so much he couldn't stand it. This is an opportunity that we can't waste if we really feel that he is the cause of all this BS. How do we get 100s of people out there. Where, right on 35th by Gate 3 and the walk up ticket booths?

Gumshoe


If something did get organized, I would try to be there in support of it. But I don't think many people would come out. I've mentioned in an earlier thread of letter writing campaign, and that's gone largely ignored. It's pretty easy to do. I've e-mailed the team about 5-6 times in the last year or so and each time I have received a response, by the same person.

Go to the web site and contact the team about how fed up you are. There are power in numbers.

It's good to see talk about the picketing, but I suggested that idea and it went largely ignored. It would embarass the Sox to no end with all the already negative media attention this team gets. A fan revolt would get the Tribune salivating for anti-Sox coverage. It would humiliate JR when the eye of MLB is on Chicago, the Cell, and of course his huge ego.

Bob

gosox41
06-16-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by whitesoxwilkes
It's also made up of at least 3 traders from the Chicago Board of Trade and the founder of a huge discount brokerage company.

It's going to be pretty hard to boycott prodcuts of these people, then. And it won't make a difference. Letter writing and picketing will do more then convincing a bunch of rich old men that their buddy JR needs to go after he made them all this money on the Bulls. It's not happening.

Bob

Lip Man 1
06-16-2003, 01:27 PM
I have pondered that question for twenty years and the reality is that we fans can do NOTHING.

We've tried boycotting (check the attendence figures since the White Flag deal) and writing the media (at least I have) but the bottom line is that until Uncle Jerry departs for the great beyond, we're screwed.

Immediate family members have been urging him for the past five years to sell and he has ignored them, all he's doing is sitting at his house in Arizona, like Howard Hughes, and ignoring everything.

Hell he's barely seen in public anymore.

I think PHG's idea of contacting minority partners is worth exploring but as I understand things unless it can be proven that JR is losing his investors money through deliberate malfeasance
they can't do squat either.

A court action would however force JR to open his books to show that (in my opinion) he is NOT losing money which would at least end that garbage coming out of the Sox but since they aren't losing money (in my opinion) the minority partners would never take action.

See the conundrum?

Basically we're screwed folks, a continuous treadmill to nowhere excepting the rare and fluky seasons like 2000, until Uncle Jerry is gone.

When that happens, and it will, all bets are off as to what follows. The folks that I've interviewed for WSI either have no idea and can't speculate or feel JR's inbred kid will take over or some think the team will be put up for sale and moved.

It's a crap shoot basically.

Sorry.

Lip

FJA
06-16-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
GREAT CALL. I'M IN. Let's organize it. Picket this crap during the All Star game, hell yeah. It would show up Reinsdorf so much he couldn't stand it. This is an opportunity that we can't waste if we really feel that he is the cause of all this BS. How do we get 100s of people out there. Where, right on 35th by Gate 3 and the walk up ticket booths?

Gumshoe

It wouldn't be easy to get 100s of people without serious organization and the press. Basically, what we'd need to do is find a core group of people (I think we have them), and find a sports reporter to write or talk about it on TV. Without some kind of press, I don't know how the word would get out. I suppose we could print out some fliers and hand them out at the red line station on 35th ...

Can you imagine how Gammons and Co. would jump on us and our disrespect for the history of the game?

hose
06-16-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I have pondered that question for twenty years and the reality is that we fans can do NOTHING.

We've tried boycotting (check the attendence figures since the White Flag deal) and writing the media (at least I have) but the bottom line is that until Uncle Jerry departs for the great beyond, we're screwed.

Immediate family members have been urging him for the past five years to sell and he has ignored them, all he's doing is sitting at his house in Arizona, like Howard Hughes, and ignoring everything.

Hell he's barely seen in public anymore.

I think PHG's idea of contacting minority partners is worth exploring but as I understand things unless it can be proven that JR is losing his investors money through deliberate malfeasance
they can't do squat either.

A court action would however force JR to open his books to show that (in my opinion) he is NOT losing money which would at least end that garbage coming out of the Sox but since they aren't losing money (in my opinion) the minority partners would never take action.

See the conundrum?

Basically we're screwed folks, a continuous treadmill to nowhere excepting the rare and fluky seasons like 2000, until Uncle Jerry is gone.

When that happens, and it will, all bets are off as to what follows. The folks that I've interviewed for WSI either have no idea and can't speculate or feel JR's inbred kid will take over or some think the team will be put up for sale and moved.

It's a crap shoot basically.

Sorry.

Lip




I have to agree with you Lip.

As die hard fans you would think that how we felt would count, well it doesn't . Reinsdorf has done his surveys and we are a very small minority.

Radio shows like the Score has even less impact on Reinsdorf.

A couple of hundred people at WSI are in the same boat as sports
radio.

This is my last year as a season ticket holder.

39thandWallace
06-16-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
There is never been a game (Playoff and Cubs Games excluded) where I couldn't walk up and get 100 level seats since the 2000 season. I have bought club level seats, 25 rows behind home plate, bleachers, right field seats.

But if I win this Pepsi billion sweepstakes, I make a offer they couldn't refuse.

I guess you haven't been to a game since that fan attacked the umpire. Because now if you have 500 level seats you will not be allowed on the 100 level.

gosox41
06-16-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I have pondered that question for twenty years and the reality is that we fans can do NOTHING.

We've tried boycotting (check the attendence figures since the White Flag deal) and writing the media (at least I have) but the bottom line is that until Uncle Jerry departs for the great beyond, we're screwed.

Immediate family members have been urging him for the past five years to sell and he has ignored them, all he's doing is sitting at his house in Arizona, like Howard Hughes, and ignoring everything.

Hell he's barely seen in public anymore.

I think PHG's idea of contacting minority partners is worth exploring but as I understand things unless it can be proven that JR is losing his investors money through deliberate malfeasance
they can't do squat either.

A court action would however force JR to open his books to show that (in my opinion) he is NOT losing money which would at least end that garbage coming out of the Sox but since they aren't losing money (in my opinion) the minority partners would never take action.

See the conundrum?

Basically we're screwed folks, a continuous treadmill to nowhere excepting the rare and fluky seasons like 2000, until Uncle Jerry is gone.

When that happens, and it will, all bets are off as to what follows. The folks that I've interviewed for WSI either have no idea and can't speculate or feel JR's inbred kid will take over or some think the team will be put up for sale and moved.

It's a crap shoot basically.

Sorry.

Lip


Lip,
I just want to clarify a few things.

First, JR is in Chicago most of the summer. I've seen him at the Cell. Check his sky box out behind homeplate. He's not at every game, but he's at a bunch of them.

Second, JR being out of the media eye has been by design. He'll never admit it, but he knows the fans hate his guts and that a more visible JR has a somewhat negative effect on ticket sales.

Third, take this for what it's worth but according to what I hear the Sox have lost money the last 2 years and probably will this season. overall they've taken a bath since the 1994 strike. I have no proof other then an insider I know who has info. and has no reason to lie to me because she feels the same way about the organization as most of us. I'll believe her unless there's proof otherwise. Maybe Steff or someone can verify.

Bob

gosox41
06-16-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by FJA
It wouldn't be easy to get 100s of people without serious organization and the press. Basically, what we'd need to do is find a core group of people (I think we have them), and find a sports reporter to write or talk about it on TV. Without some kind of press, I don't know how the word would get out. I suppose we could print out some fliers and hand them out at the red line station on 35th ...

Can you imagine how Gammons and Co. would jump on us and our disrespect for the history of the game?

There's two reputable media guys that post here....

TornLabrum
06-16-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Third, take this for what it's worth but according to what I hear the Sox have lost money the last 2 years and probably will this season. overall they've taken a bath since the 1994 strike. I have no proof other then an insider I know who has info. and has no reason to lie to me because she feels the same way about the organization as most of us. I'll believe her unless there's proof otherwise. Maybe Steff or someone can verify.

Bob

Your insider has probably seen the cooked books.

gosox41
06-16-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by hose
I have to agree with you Lip.

As die hard fans you would think that how we felt would count, well it doesn't . Reinsdorf has done his surveys and we are a very small minority.

Radio shows like the Score has even less impact on Reinsdorf.

A couple of hundred people at WSI are in the same boat as sports
radio.

This is my last year as a season ticket holder.

At least send an e-mail to the team sharing your thoughts and frustration. Let them know how you feel.

Bob

gosox41
06-16-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Your insider has probably seen the cooked books.

Until I'm shown proof otherwise, I have no reason to believe otherwise.

If you're speculating that JR actually keeps two sets of books, I'm certain there is something not right about that. Do you think he's cheating on his taxes by cooking his books? Is he using illegal or unethical practices to hide money? Give me a specific example of something JR does. As much as I hate JR, I think he has enough integrity and honesty to not do anything that is going to make his image as a businessman (where he is well respected) do bad. Especially if you consider how much he is really worth and how little his minority interest stake is worth to his overall net worth.

Bob

Bob

Daver
06-16-2003, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Until I'm shown proof otherwise, I have no reason to believe otherwise.

If you're speculating that JR actually keeps two sets of books, I'm certain there is something not right about that. Do you think he's cheating on his taxes by cooking his books? Is he using illegal or unethical practices to hide money? Give me a specific example of something JR does. As much as I hate JR, I think he has enough integrity and honesty to not do anything that is going to make his image as a businessman (where he is well respected) do bad. Especially if you consider how much he is really worth and how little his minority interest stake is worth to his overall net worth.



Every team in MLB uses questionable accounting as to what the income of the team is,and it is legal.In example,who owns the property that the parking lots sit on,I doubt the owner would be listed as the White Sox,but rather a corporartion that is owned by the same partners that own the White Sox,so all the revenue created by parking is never shown as income for the White Sox MLB club,even though the team is what generates the income.

There are many other examples of how to do this that I will not go into right now,but they are all legit and legal,and all the money goes to the same group of owners.

TornLabrum
06-16-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Until I'm shown proof otherwise, I have no reason to believe otherwise.

If you're speculating that JR actually keeps two sets of books, I'm certain there is something not right about that. Do you think he's cheating on his taxes by cooking his books? Is he using illegal or unethical practices to hide money? Give me a specific example of something JR does. As much as I hate JR, I think he has enough integrity and honesty to not do anything that is going to make his image as a businessman (where he is well respected) do bad. Especially if you consider how much he is really worth and how little his minority interest stake is worth to his overall net worth.

Bob

Bob

It's common knowledge that MLB keeps two sets of books: what they're really making and the one that gets shown to the public. See Bud Selig's testimony a couple of years ago before a congressional committee.

gosox41
06-16-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by daver
Every team in MLB uses questionable accounting as to what the income of the team is,and it is legal.In example,who owns the property that the parking lots sit on,I doubt the owner would be listed as the White Sox,but rather a corporartion that is owned by the same partners that own the White Sox,so all the revenue created by parking is never shown as income for the White Sox MLB club,even though the team is what generates the income.

There are many other examples of how to do this that I will not go into right now,but they are all legit and legal,and all the money goes to the same group of owners.

So do you know that the Sox specifically have another corporation that is listed as owner of the parking lots when JR and his investors are raking it in or is this just an example of waht other teams have done?

I am going to question my friend some more and I just want to get the facts straight. I'l look bad if I make accusations that I have no basis for making.

Again, what proof is there that the Sox doctor their books?

Bob

gosox41
06-16-2003, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
It's common knowledge that MLB keeps two sets of books: what they're really making and the one that gets shown to the public. See Bud Selig's testimony a couple of years ago before a congressional committee.

I've heard rumors about the two books, but was not aware Selig made reference to this.

Bob

Daver
06-16-2003, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
So do you know that the Sox specifically have another corporation that is listed as owner of the parking lots when JR and his investors are raking it in or is this just an example of waht other teams have done?

I am going to question my friend some more and I just want to get the facts straight. I'l look bad if I make accusations that I have no basis for making.

Again, what proof is there that the Sox doctor their books?

Bob

It is well documented that many teams do this,if you feel the need to do the homework it would not be diffucult to find out the owner of a parcel of property in the city of Chicago,you can do it through the public records at City Hall.

So you do not consider shuffling revenue through another corporate name as not "doctoring" the books?

Ventura23Fan
06-17-2003, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by 39thandWallace
These seats suck, you can't tell the difference between a routine pop up and a homerun because your in the upper hemisphere.

I was at the Sox/Cubs game 2 years ago when Carlos hit a grand slam to win the game. I was in the last row UD behind the plate. When he first hit it I was thinking to myself "Get down! Get down!" Then I saw the left fielder backing up and I immediately switched to thinking "Get up! Get up!"

Originally posted by Hullett_Fan


I'm not a "vacuous lemming" but having sat in the UD I will say that it's WAY too steep and it's friggin stupid to have the entrance at the bottom as opposed to the middle of the deck! I sat 2 rows from the top for a Cubs game last year, went to the restroom and decided not to climb back up for fear of having a heart attack. It SUCKS.


I've sat that far up in the UD twice. Both times I think I only made one bathroom/beer trip the entire game. The vendors never make their way up there either. One heavy guy we were with the one time never even made it to our seats. We found him about five innings later sitting close to the exit.

I prefer the outfield seats myself, and even the UD is ok about half the way up. I like alot of things about the new park and have never used it as an excuse to not attend games.

gosox41
06-17-2003, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by daver
It is well documented that many teams do this,if you feel the need to do the homework it would not be diffucult to find out the owner of a parcel of property in the city of Chicago,you can do it through the public records at City Hall.

So you do not consider shuffling revenue through another corporate name as not "doctoring" the books?

I wold consider reshuffling revenue as docotring the books, I just don't necessarily believe JR does that. I know someone who has seen the books. I don't know details of everything she saw but I trust her. I also feel no need to check out who owns the parking lots because I am not the one accusing JR of doctoring anything. I make no such claims and don't necessarily believe in guilt by association. Because some owners somewhere else may have a shal corp. for their parking doesn't prove that JR does.

I'm just saying before making any accusations about JR specifically, I need to see some proof other then heresay. Maybe it's naive, but no more so then making assumptions that he is doctoring books without proof.


Bob

Dadawg_77
06-17-2003, 11:17 AM
Actually is pretty common for most corporations to have two or three sets of books, one for the IRS, one for the investing public and one for internal review. Each one has different rules and regulations on how to calculate the numbers within. Rather then just looking at a P/L statement, I would love to see a balance sheet and free cash flow report from a MLB team.

voodoochile
06-17-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Actually is pretty common for most corporations to have two or three sets of books, one for the IRS, one for the investing public and one for internal review. Each one has different rules and regulations on how to calculate the numbers within. Rather then just looking at a P/L statement, I would love to see a balance sheet and free cash flow report from a MLB team.

It's also a cash business, so that makes it REAL easy to hide money, especially in the parking concessions.

ode to veeck
06-17-2003, 04:02 PM
Third, take this for what it's worth but according to what I hear the Sox have lost money the last 2 years and probably will this season. overall they've taken a bath since the 1994 strike .

Gee and who was the driving force behind the 94 strike JR? a golden opportunity to increase the PR and support for the Sox (the '94 hot team) turned into actively turning away many Sox fans forever----hard to believe after baseball held seasons and WS through two world wards

Dadawg_77
06-17-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
Gee and who was the driving force behind the 94 strike JR? a golden opportunity to increase the PR and support for the Sox (the '94 hot team) turned into actively turning away many Sox fans forever----hard to believe after baseball held seasons and WS through two world wards


Attendance per game from 94 to now fell over 30% for the Sox and about 5% for all of baseball.