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View Full Version : Manuel Has To Be Kidding Us!


kevingrt
06-14-2003, 10:48 PM
In the postgame show tonight on ESPN Radio he said that Frank would be playing tomorrow at the DH position without Frank knowing.

1st thing wrong with that is telling the media before Frank. You should never do that as a coach. Many coaches have gotten burned on it before. I know it's not that major only changing positions but still tell the player first.

2nd why do you move Frank now! Right when he is on his hot streak. I really don't understand Jerry.

sox_fan_forever
06-14-2003, 10:51 PM
This makes me really mad. We know he likes to tinker...maybe he will change his mind again before then? Although knowing him that would be completely taking Frank out of the lineup. :angry:

TornLabrum
06-14-2003, 10:55 PM
I heard that on the way home from the KC Cougars game and just about squeezed my steering wheel to dust. Then I simply remembered what I told that Giants fan the other night about all you really need to say to explain why Jerry Manuel does anything: "Jerry Manuel is an idiot." Five words to live by.

valposoxfan
06-14-2003, 11:01 PM
I'm not even gonna wonder why he does anything he does anymore. I'm too sick and tired...is he trying to tear the team apart???

RKMeibalane
06-14-2003, 11:12 PM
Somebody please fire this sonofabitch before he scews up the team even more than it already is.

:firejerry

:selljerry

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

ChiSox14305635
06-14-2003, 11:15 PM
So if it ain't broke, Manuel decides, "I must break it." Is this guy for real? Maybe it's time for him to look elsewhere for employment. Unbelievable.

RKMeibalane
06-14-2003, 11:19 PM
:jerry

*TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER*

RKMeibalane
06-14-2003, 11:25 PM
There had better be a large contingent of Sox fans at tomorrow's game chanting, "Fire Jerry," because "The Tinkerer" has to go. Will this crap ever end?

Jerko
06-14-2003, 11:33 PM
I think we can change the old "Tinker to Evers to Chance" so it just says "With the Tinkerer we Never had a Chance"

duke of dorwood
06-14-2003, 11:56 PM
:jerry

And on the seventh day, he tinkered

StepsInSC
06-15-2003, 12:27 AM
I`ve yet to join the fire JM bandwagon but if he really does this...ugh...

WhiteSox = Life
06-15-2003, 12:46 AM
:jerry
"Well, uh, you know... With Frank playing first, the, uh... Defense hasn't been as great as it, uh, could be... Plus, his offense might be better if he, uh, DH's and, uh... So, um...

:hurt
"Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Jerry?"

:jerry
"Oh, haha... Oh, uh... Yeah, I was only kiddin' Frank... You know me, I'm a joker... Hahaha... Oh, boy..."

MarkEdward
06-15-2003, 12:52 AM
Um, can we wait until this actually happens before we scold Jerry?

TornLabrum
06-15-2003, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Um, can we wait until this actually happens before we scold Jerry?

He already said, "Frank doesn't know this yet, but he'll be DHing tomorrow." What more do you want?

MHOUSE
06-15-2003, 01:20 AM
Yeah I heard the interview he was like well I haven't told him, but he'll be the DH just to you know um give him a rest or something. Please! If anything starts going well Jerry has to tinker with it. Unf*ing believable. When Frank goes 0efer and loses his mojo we'll all hate this even more than we do now. Ugh this drives me crazy!! Do we need ANY MORE evidence that he is a moron?

siugrad25
06-15-2003, 01:36 AM
Let's see... Frank has hit six home runs in his last 10 games, all while playing first base, and Manuel decides he's going to DH him????? WHY???? He's raised his average from .254 to .283 before tonight's win and what, this isn't good enough? All the meanwhile, Konerko, while improving sort of, will be back at first?

I really hope this is a one-day thing before the Boston series. I mean the Frank is looking again like 'Big Frank.' He's got back that swagger and now this .... damn you Manuel. I know there's people that are going to say, 'give him a day off,' but when you're still 31-36.. I don't know...

This is the stuff I love to read: (from the AP)

Thomas, who has homered in three straight games, got a standing ovation from the crowd, prompting a curtain call.

``It was great. When I have been good, they love me,'' Thomas said. ``When I have been bad they've shown it, too. It goes hand in hand, but it was definitely a proud moment for me.''

He's homered in three-straight games and we're DHing him? Good job Manuel.

jeremyb1
06-15-2003, 01:41 AM
god. is there anything manuel can do that isn't the end of the world to you people?! its one game. guys get days off all the time!! i'd much rather have frank rest at dh than have a day off. who cares if frank knows? do guys know the day before they sit? manuel shouldn't tell the media before frank but come on. don't we have more pressing issues to worry about?!

Jjav829
06-15-2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
god. is there anything manuel can do that isn't the end of the world to you people?! its one game. guys get days off all the time!! i'd much rather have frank rest at dh than have a day off. who cares if frank knows? do guys know the day before they sit? manuel shouldn't tell the media before frank but come on. don't we have more pressing issues to worry about?!

I agree. I mean jeez, talk about an overreaction. It's a Sunday lineup, so Manuel wants to get Frank some rest. And if him having an 0'fer tomorrow breaks his confidence, then there wasn't much there to begin with so don't worry about it. Most players don't know where or if they are playing until the lineup is posted anyway. Who cares if he tells the media first. It's not like he said "Well, I haven't told Frank this yet but he won't be playing first for the rest of the season". It's only one freaking game and it's a Sunday game anyway. Wow, you would think this was the end of the world by reading some of these posts. This isn't tinkering! It's a Sunday lineup for crying out loud! That's what the DH is there for. It's the reason Bonds didn't start in LF today but rather at DH. Lighten up, the season is over anyways.

ewokpelts
06-15-2003, 02:06 AM
this is not just another "sunday" game.......this team needs everyhting it can get to face the bosox and the scrubbies...not to mention the twinkies after that.....while konerko need playing time......franks tearin it up.......putting him @ dh might hurt him more than "help" him get some rest...we need frank at first...end of story
Gene

jeremyb1
06-15-2003, 03:30 AM
i fail to see how one game makes such a large difference. its incredibly rare for a player to play 162 games at one position. every game is important. tommorow is important but it is sunday, we are facing an era that despite his talent has an era over 8, and garland has been pitching well lately. i'd rather have frank spend a day at dh tommorow than against the bosox or cubs.

kermittheefrog
06-15-2003, 03:38 AM
I think there is a much more legit reason to be pissed at Manuel. He uses all the righties in the pen, even the horrible White ahead of Marte even though Marte is the best pitcher in the pen. Its just stupid.

CLR01
06-15-2003, 04:32 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
god. is there anything manuel can do that isn't the end of the world to you people?! its one game. guys get days off all the time!! i'd much rather have frank rest at dh than have a day off. who cares if frank knows? do guys know the day before they sit? manuel shouldn't tell the media before frank but come on. don't we have more pressing issues to worry about?!


The sad part is if frank goes 3-4 or 4-4 or whatever not a single one of them will come out and say good job Manuel you gave frank a day of rest and kept his hot streak going. Even if he does go o-fer so what. He didnt get a hit wednesday and he is still fine. Like Jjav said if it puts him in a slump there wasnt much there anyway. The man has been at first the last 11 games and has had 1 day "off" the last 16 games it is not the end of the world. Some people here will just bitch about anything. If he is still DHing coming Monday or Tuesday then start complaining.

siugrad25
06-15-2003, 11:27 AM
I'm all for any player getting a break. I'm not going to pretend and say that I know the rigors of being a major leaguer, my only point is that I believe in hot streaks and momentum. With the Sox' upcoming schedule, I think today is a good time for a break, but Frank has really started coming around and ... I'm sorry, I just get a little nervous when the Sox tinker with one thing that has started to finally go right.

TornLabrum
06-15-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by siugrad25
I'm all for any player getting a break. I'm not going to pretend and say that I know the rigors of being a major leaguer, my only point is that I believe in hot streaks and momentum. With the Sox' upcoming schedule, I think today is a good time for a break, but Frank has really started coming around and ... I'm sorry, I just get a little nervous when the Sox tinker with one thing that has started to finally go right.

My God! This guy is 35 years old, not 42. How many games has he played at first base since they moved him there from DH? He had a day off Monday. He gets another day off a week from tomorrow? You mean he's so out of shape, he can't play a Sunday afternoon game at first base?

Still, that's my my main gripe. My gripe with Gen. Disarray is that he told the media first. "Um...Frank doesn't know this yet, but I'm...uuuhhhh <smack>....using him as...uuuummmmm...DH tomorrow." He's like a four-year-old who can't keep a secret.

Frank deserves the courtesy of being told before the rest of the world, don't you think?

siugrad25
06-15-2003, 11:58 AM
As for telling the media first before Frank is, you're right, sort of childish. If anything, to me, show some respect to one of your senior leaders on the team. As for DHing Frank, I posted earlier that while I'm not in favor of it, maybe it's not the worst thing in the world. As long as I see him back at first base vs. the BoSox and Flubs that's all I care about.

TornLabrum
06-15-2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by siugrad25
As for telling the media first before Frank is, you're right, sort of childish. If anything, to me, show some respect to one of your senior leaders on the team. As for DHing Frank, I posted earlier that while I'm not in favor of it, maybe it's not the worst thing in the world. As long as I see him back at first base vs. the BoSox and Flubs that's all I care about.

Just heard Frank on The Score: "I'm getting a little tired. I could use a little break."

At least he doesn't seem POed at Manuel for telling everyone else before him.

kevingrt
06-15-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Just heard Frank on The Score: "I'm getting a little tired. I could use a little break."

At least he doesn't seem POed at Manuel for telling everyone else before him.

Yeah I guess that's good, but how tired do you get playing 1B?

Chili-Sox
06-15-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
Yeah I guess that's good, but how tired do you get playing 1B?

Tired enough not to see a runner breaking for home on a caught stealing.

LauraJ14
06-15-2003, 12:58 PM
In todays Daily Herald,
Manuel, though, said Thomas will get today off from the field and DH in the series windup with the Padres.
" I need a day off," Thomas said. "I've been over there the last 2 weeks and I'm getting a little worn down a bit. That's fine with me."

FJA
06-15-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by LauraJ14
In todays Daily Herald,
Manuel, though, said Thomas will get today off from the field and DH in the series windup with the Padres.
" I need a day off," Thomas said. "I've been over there the last 2 weeks and I'm getting a little worn down a bit. That's fine with me."

I held judgement on this issue, because it really didn't seem like that big of a deal, but if it's alright with Frank, it's alright with me. There are MUCH bigger things to worry about.

RKMeibalane
06-15-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Chili-Sox
Tired enough not to see a runner breaking for home on a caught stealing.

That was more Graffanino's fault than Frank's. Frank should not have thrown that ball, but Tony could see the runner from where he was standing. As soon as he caught it, he should have thrown it home instead of chasing the runner.

ShoelessFred
06-15-2003, 05:59 PM
FIRE JERRY MANUEL. NUFF SAID!

ShoelessFred
06-15-2003, 06:04 PM
almost forgot

SELL JERRY SELL!!!

Jerko
06-15-2003, 06:10 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jjav829
I agree. I mean jeez, talk about an overreaction. It's a Sunday lineup, so Manuel wants to get Frank some rest. And if him having an 0'fer tomorrow breaks his confidence, then there wasn't much there to begin with so don't worry about it. Most players don't know where or if they are playing until the lineup is posted anyway. Who cares if he tells the media first. It's not like he said "Well, I haven't told Frank this yet but he won't be playing first for the rest of the season". It's only one freaking game and it's a Sunday game anyway. Wow, you would think this was the end of the world by reading some of these posts. This isn't tinkering! It's a Sunday lineup for crying out loud! That's what the DH is there for. It's the reason Bonds didn't start in LF today but rather at DH. Lighten up, the season is over anyways. [/QUO



Is that why the Bears suck; because they always use a Sunday lineup?!?!?! Brutal. I guess I missed the memo that MLB put out that says Sunday games don't count in the standings. First, Bonds doesn't care where he plays, Thomas does. If he's doing good at first, leave him at first. It's been that way for years, it's not like this is something new.

Well, Frank was 0-fer, the Sox lost 1-0 to a guy with an 8 ERA, people who already had 2 hits in the game and can't bunt were still asked to bunt, and a washed up closer got 3 outs against us in the 9th inning by throwing exactly one strike as our pinch runner was standing at first and not moving on ANY pitch and was the first guy erased on yet another game ending DP. DAVER, does this website have a way to ignore posts that defend Manuel without me having to read them?

TornLabrum
06-15-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by ShoelessFred
almost forgot

SELL JERRY SELL!!!

That's more like it.

Chisoxfn
06-15-2003, 06:41 PM
What pisses me off even more is playing Jose Valentin vs lefties.

Jose sucks either way, but he sucks horrible against the LHP's.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-15-2003, 06:44 PM
The Sox are finally showing signs of heating up, so what better time for Jerry to rearrange everything for a meaningless Sunday game.

Whoops, it's not meaningless. Never mind.

kevingrt
06-15-2003, 07:56 PM
Can't we all just have a big group hug with Jerry?

Viva Magglio
06-15-2003, 08:13 PM
I am thoroughly disgusted with this loss today. You know, we have not lost a 1-0 game to the worst team in each league?

I wouldn't call today's loss Manuel's fault, right Aaron Rowand? But the move has to be made now.

WhiteSoxWinner
06-15-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by CLR01
The sad part is if frank goes 3-4 or 4-4 or whatever not a single one of them will come out and say good job Manuel you gave frank a day of rest and kept his hot streak going.

Well, he went 0 for the day. Since no one was going to say what a great job JM did if Frank got a few hits, I guess all the defenders of the move won't admit that it was probably a bad idea.

The point is that we know Frank has fragile psyche. He is a high maintenance player. JM should not have a) told the media first before Frank that he was moving him to DH and b) what is the point of changing anything when someone gets hot? There is a scheduled off day on the 23rd.

Tragg
06-15-2003, 10:13 PM
I think Manuel brings an alarm clock with him to the dugout to wake him up after 2 hours of play. He'll then find something silly to dog-cuss the umpires about and then go back to sleep. Last night he slept all game, except to scream at the umps from the dugout about a called 3rd strike on the inside corner that wasn't a grotesquely bad call (it was close).
Obviously, in Thursday's game against the Giants, he forgot to set the alarm and woke up only after hearing the rukus after bonds' homer

CLR01
06-15-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Well, he went 0 for the day. Since no one was going to say what a great job JM did if Frank got a few hits, I guess all the defenders of the move won't admit that it was probably a bad idea.


Like i said in the post you quoted (what a suprise it didnt make your final cut) was that if he was still at DH come Monday or Tuesday then the move becomes a bad idea. Giving a guy a day of rest from the field (which even the player said he needed) during a sunday game, against a pitcher with an era in the 8's, in a series you have already won, with a bigger one starting monday is not a bad move. Hey why is no one here upset Jimenez got the day off?

CLR01
06-15-2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jjav829
[B] DAVER, does this website have a way to ignore posts that defend Manuel without me having to read them?


No need for that you dont seem to be reading them anyway. The only move people were defending in this thread was the decision to DH Frank today. I hate to break it to you but we did not lose this game because Frank was not at first.

ShoelessFred
06-15-2003, 10:48 PM
IT'S ALL JERRY'S FAULT. IF YOU CAN'T SEE THAT PLEASE GO SEE AN EYE DOCTOR.

MHOUSE
06-16-2003, 12:25 AM
IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. Period. Is it that hard to understand?

TornLabrum
06-16-2003, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. Period. Is it that hard to understand?

My new signature provides your answer.

MHOUSE
06-16-2003, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
My new signature provides your answer.

LMAO, so true :)

CLR01
06-16-2003, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. Period. Is it that hard to understand?


*** is that supposed to mean? What is he trying to "fix" by giving a guy a day off from the field. A day the player agreed he needed. Yeah sure if it ain't broke don't fix it, but it may need some routine maintenance to keep it working properly. If Frank is not back at first tomorrow bitch all you want.

Jerko
06-16-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Well, he went 0 for the day. Since no one was going to say what a great job JM did if Frank got a few hits, I guess all the defenders of the move won't admit that it was probably a bad idea.

The point is that we know Frank has fragile psyche. He is a high maintenance player. JM should not have a) told the media first before Frank that he was moving him to DH and b) what is the point of changing anything when someone gets hot? There is a scheduled off day on the 23rd.



We all know that right or wrong, Frank has a fragile psyche as you said. Now how long has Manuel been his manager? He should know that by now! It shouldn't have taken an ofer on a Sunday afternoon vs. the Padres in his 6th year of managing to figure that out.

Jerko
06-16-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by CLR01
No need for that you dont seem to be reading them anyway. The only move people were defending in this thread was the decision to DH Frank today. I hate to break it to you but we did not lose this game because Frank was not at first.


Talk about not reading posts. I said I didn't want to read about defending Manuel anymore because I think he is beyond hope, and you pull one line out of my post to tell me the ONE thing people were defending him about. That's the part I don't want to hear! Also, the main point of my last post was just because it's a Sunday does not mean you have to put a horse sh*t lineup on the field, something Manuel has done consistently for 3 years. It just happened to co-incide with Frank being DH'd. I never said the Sox lost because Thomas was at DH. I had many other reasons for that. Once again, the Sox lost because of bad baserunning, the inability to move runners from 2nd with no outs 2 innings in a row (which I posted earlier), and nobody being able to bunt on this team and still being asked to bunt even though he (rowand) had 2 hits on the day and the pitcher had yet to throw more than one strike in the inning. So, while I thank you for breaking it to me that the Sox didn't lose because Frank was dh'ing, I respectfully disagree with your assessment that I don't read posts.

TornLabrum
06-16-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Also, the main point of my last post was just because it's a Sunday does not mean you have to put a horse sh*t lineup on the field, something Manuel has done consistently for 3 years. It just happened to co-incide with Frank being DH'd.

He's done it longer than 3 years. He did it consistently in 2000, too.

voodoochile
06-16-2003, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by CLR01
*** is that supposed to mean? What is he trying to "fix" by giving a guy a day off from the field. A day the player agreed he needed. Yeah sure if it ain't broke don't fix it, but it may need some routine maintenance to keep it working properly. If Frank is not back at first tomorrow bitch all you want.

Um... This isn't just about Frank. Frank is part of the reason it boiled over, but JM's constant tinkering and attempting to find a "better way" is a major problem on this club, IMO.

The fact that he told the media first and then told them it was a secret only compounds the problem. This had the potential to blow up in his face and he did it anyway.

From a more personal perspective (being a huge Frank fan), I have to look at this as more of the same old same old. Jerry's sole motivating effort as a Sox manager has been to make Frank be treated like everyone else. Now, on the surface that seems fine, but the fact remains. Frank is a touchy person who can take perceived slights and blow them up into a major issue. Frank is also a proven superstar and a future HOF player. Every other GOOD manager has no problem giving those type of players some slack and treating them with dignity and a little extra care. That is part of managing a big league club - managing the egos.

JM's personality seems more cutout for managing a HS or a LL team. Of course when that team blew the championship game because JM insisted on pitching the worst guy and putting his best player in LF for the game (to prove a point about team unity) the parents would string him up from the back stop.

This crap is WAY past old. And, just to be sure we are on the same page. I agree that giving Frank a day off isn't a horrible idea, provided he actually returns to first tonight.

gosox41
06-16-2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
In the postgame show tonight on ESPN Radio he said that Frank would be playing tomorrow at the DH position without Frank knowing.

1st thing wrong with that is telling the media before Frank. You should never do that as a coach. Many coaches have gotten burned on it before. I know it's not that major only changing positions but still tell the player first.

2nd why do you move Frank now! Right when he is on his hot streak. I really don't understand Jerry.

A perfect example of why JM needs to be canned. It's not just on the field manuevers that make him incompetent. He didn't bother telling Frank that he was batting second when he tried that experiment earlier in the year. He also didn't tell Ordonez that he was playing CF when he tried that.

Bob

gosox41
06-16-2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Um... This isn't just about Frank. Frank is part of the reason it boiled over, but JM's constant tinkering and attempting to find a "better way" is a major problem on this club, IMO.

The fact that he told the media first and then told them it was a secret only compounds the problem. This had the potential to blow up in his face and he did it anyway.

From a more personal perspective (being a huge Frank fan), I have to look at this as more of the same old same old. Jerry's sole motivating effort as a Sox manager has been to make Frank be treated like everyone else. Now, on the surface that seems fine, but the fact remains. Frank is a touchy person who can take perceived slights and blow them up into a major issue. Frank is also a proven superstar and a future HOF player. Every other GOOD manager has no problem giving those type of players some slack and treating them with dignity and a little extra care. That is part of managing a big league club - managing the egos.

JM's personality seems more cutout for managing a HS or a LL team. Of course when that team blew the championship game because JM insisted on pitching the worst guy and putting his best player in LF for the game (to prove a point about team unity) the parents would string him up from the back stop.

This crap is WAY past old. And, just to be sure we are on the same page. I agree that giving Frank a day off isn't a horrible idea, provided he actually returns to first tonight.

I don't think JM is that sophisticated when it comes to managing. He's not trying to treat Frank like everyone else. He's just a lousy communicator who has no control over the clubhouse and is afraid of the players.


Bob