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Hangar18
06-13-2003, 09:21 AM
I want Members of the White Sox Organization, top to bottom
to read the Title of this Thread, and APPLY it as they see
fit. These are words to live by. Everything they Do/Dont Do
DIRECTLY Affects youus in the future. Dont think it doesnt.

White Sox Mgmt (cubs too for that matter) Reminds me of that
Monkey in the Lab that cant Figure out WHy its getting
SHOCKED every time it reaches for the sandwich in the box.
Yet they keep reaching for it every time..... *BUZZZZZZZ*

Hangar18
06-13-2003, 09:25 AM
Heres an Example. Let the other team that plays in the Very
Same City as you do (sox mgmt,heres a hint-they wear blue hats)
Out Market/Out Sensationalize you so that in just a few short years......theyve expanded their "fan" base to the point that
people believe (incorrectly of course) that YOU are 2nd Fiddle here. This isnt the case of course, but you know what White SOX Mgmt? PERCEPTION IS REALITY. You guys are pretty
Stupid to not have realized this. How dumb are you guys anyway?

Hangar18
06-13-2003, 09:28 AM
Question for Sox Mgmt. What do you call a Company
that Sells the Exact Same Product As you do, and said
Product is also being Sold in the Same Market as your Product??

Hangar18
06-13-2003, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Question for Sox Mgmt. What do you call a Company
that Sells the Exact Same Product As you do, and said
Product is also being Sold in the Same Market as your Product??

Answer: A COMPETITOR. A direct competitor at that.

Now White Sox. Lets Apply what we know so far. We've Established that there is a Direct Competitor in your very same
Market (despite the argument youve made that they ARENT your
competitors. ummmm, Wrong answer) What are you going
to do to win "the hearts and minds" of the Consumer Buying Public? You have a competitor in you neighborhood sox,
what are you gonna do about it?

mandmandm
06-13-2003, 09:45 AM
Hanger:

Their scarry talented marketing team is going to come up with Thursday night $1 hot dog night that Dave Wills was presenting to listeners last night to lure them out to the game. This organization will never get it. Supposedly, their marketing research has told them that their target market is suburban families who are more interested in having a good time then the team winning. If that is the case hasn't the marketing/sales staff failed in luring the targeted market into the stadium as the attendance is piss poor. In successful organizations if people do not do their job they are replaced with people who can do them. Rob Gallas is a journalist that is the VP of marketing???? Don't get it.

TornLabrum
06-14-2003, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by mandmandm
Hanger:

Their scarry talented marketing team is going to come up with Thursday night $1 hot dog night that Dave Wills was presenting to listeners last night to lure them out to the game. This organization will never get it. Supposedly, their marketing research has told them that their target market is suburban families who are more interested in having a good time then the team winning. If that is the case hasn't the marketing/sales staff failed in luring the targeted market into the stadium as the attendance is piss poor. In successful organizations if people do not do their job they are replaced with people who can do them. Rob Gallas is a journalist that is the VP of marketing???? Don't get it.

I disagree that the Cubs are the competition. The Sox have targeted suburban families as their target market.

What they don't get is that a family can go to any of the following nearby cities or suburbs and see family oriented entertainment for less than 1/3 of the cost of a worse ticket (in terms of location) at U.S. Cellular:

Geneva
Schaumburg
Crestwood
Joliet
Gary, IN

They also don't get that the drop in attendance corresponds to the attendance at these parks. They also don't get that you don't lure families in by raising the price of tickets, parking, and concessions when the competition can beat you in all of these areas.

Here's the difference in black and white:

Thursday I went to a Sox game. Dollar hot dog night. I paid $29.00 for my ticket (section 146, row 30, down the right field line about 200 feet from home plate as the crow flies) and $15.00 for parking. I then bought the hot dog upgrade (2 @ $2.50 each) and a bottle of Pepsi ($3.00). Total for dinner. Later I bought one beer ($4.75). Total spent $56.75.

Tonight I'm going to Kane County for a game. I paid $9.00 for my ticket and $1.00 for parking (reserved--if I wanted to walk farther, I could park for free). If I buy a barbequed pork chop sandwich ($5.50, chips $1.00, and a large Pepsi $3.00, I think), dinner will cost me $9.50. Add the $4.50 for a beer (iirc) and that takes me up to $14.00 for food. Total bill: $24.50. That's well under half the same price.

Now if you're on a budget, where do you go? The Sox haven't figured this out yet.

hose
06-14-2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I disagree that the Cubs are the competition. The Sox have targeted suburban families as their target market.

What they don't get is that a family can go to any of the following nearby cities or suburbs and see family oriented entertainment for less than 1/3 of the cost of a worse ticket (in terms of location) at U.S. Cellular:

Geneva
Schaumburg
Crestwood
Joliet
Gary, IN

They also don't get that the drop in attendance corresponds to the attendance at these parks. They also don't get that you don't lure families in by raising the price of tickets, parking, and concessions when the competition can beat you in all of these areas.

Here's the difference in black and white:

Thursday I went to a Sox game. Dollar hot dog night. I paid $29.00 for my ticket (section 146, row 30, down the right field line about 200 feet from home plate as the crow flies) and $15.00 for parking. I then bought the hot dog upgrade (2 @ $2.50 each) and a bottle of Pepsi ($3.00). Total for dinner. Later I bought one beer ($4.75). Total spent $56.75.

Tonight I'm going to Kane County for a game. I paid $9.00 for my ticket and $1.00 for parking (reserved--if I wanted to walk farther, I could park for free). If I buy a barbequed pork chop sandwich ($5.50, chips $1.00, and a large Pepsi $3.00, I think), dinner will cost me $9.50. Add the $4.50 for a beer (iirc) and that takes me up to $14.00 for food. Total bill: $24.50. That's well under half the same price.

Now if you're on a budget, where do you go? The Sox haven't figured this out yet.


I have to agree with you because I have used the Wolves over the Blackhawks in the same scenario and the kids love it.

If there was no minor league hockey nearby I would have been forced to take out a home equity loan to afford a Hawks game.

I think the kids lose all interest in these minor league teams as they grow up, kind of like soccer, most kids don't want anything to do with it as they hit their teens.

captain54
06-14-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
What they don't get is that a family can go to any of the following nearby cities or suburbs and see family oriented entertainment for less than 1/3 of the cost of a worse ticket (in terms of location) at U.S. Cellular:




The #1 thing the White Sox organization doesn't get (or refuses to get) is that a bonafide winner on the field is the only thing that is going to get people in the seats....

I'm sure someone will bring up the argument that there were empty seats when the Sox were in first in 2000....let's not forget that the Sox had a mediocre second half in 2000....they couldn't even win their clinching game against the Twins....

In 1983, Sox tickets were a much sought after commodity...much like a Bulls tickets during the Jordan era....and I don't recall that frenzy being created by "hey, can you score me a ticket to a Sox game so I can get in for $1 hot dog night?"

Create a team and an organization that is totally comitted to bringing a championship caliber ballclub to the South Side and there will be no need for any of the lame dog and pony shows that this undergraduate marketing department has cooked up..

TornLabrum
06-14-2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by hose
I have to agree with you because I have used the Wolves over the Blackhawks in the same scenario and the kids love it.

If there was no minor league hockey nearby I would have been forced to take out a home equity loan to afford a Hawks game.

I think the kids lose all interest in these minor league teams as they grow up, kind of like soccer, most kids don't want anything to do with it as they hit their teens.

I don't know about that. My son and I started going to Kane County games when he was 10 or 11 during their inaugural season, and we continued through his teen years. We also go to about 10 Sox games a year, and we're going to several Jackhammers games this year. He's 23 now. He also goes to even more minor league games with his friends.

One thing we both like is something I didn't mention. I got my tickets for the Cougars in November. Tonight's seats are in Row C, just to the first base side of home plate, essentially behind the left-handed batters box. For 9 bucks. Those are $37.00 VIP tickets at Comiskey if you can get them. Our 5-game mini-season ticket package in Joliet is in Row G in about the same location, again for 9 bucks.

gosox41
06-14-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I disagree that the Cubs are the competition. The Sox have targeted suburban families as their target market.

What they don't get is that a family can go to any of the following nearby cities or suburbs and see family oriented entertainment for less than 1/3 of the cost of a worse ticket (in terms of location) at U.S. Cellular:

Geneva
Schaumburg
Crestwood
Joliet
Gary, IN

They also don't get that the drop in attendance corresponds to the attendance at these parks. They also don't get that you don't lure families in by raising the price of tickets, parking, and concessions when the competition can beat you in all of these areas.

Here's the difference in black and white:

Thursday I went to a Sox game. Dollar hot dog night. I paid $29.00 for my ticket (section 146, row 30, down the right field line about 200 feet from home plate as the crow flies) and $15.00 for parking. I then bought the hot dog upgrade (2 @ $2.50 each) and a bottle of Pepsi ($3.00). Total for dinner. Later I bought one beer ($4.75). Total spent $56.75.

Tonight I'm going to Kane County for a game. I paid $9.00 for my ticket and $1.00 for parking (reserved--if I wanted to walk farther, I could park for free). If I buy a barbequed pork chop sandwich ($5.50, chips $1.00, and a large Pepsi $3.00, I think), dinner will cost me $9.50. Add the $4.50 for a beer (iirc) and that takes me up to $14.00 for food. Total bill: $24.50. That's well under half the same price.

Now if you're on a budget, where do you go? The Sox haven't figured this out yet.

IMHO, it's worth an extra $30 or so to see Frank Thomas and Barry Bonds.

Not to get too much into one's spending habits, which are none of my business, but it is possible for you to attend the game for less money. Maybe the enjoyment of the game would have decreased, but so would have your costs. You could have bought cheaper tickets and brought food from home to the game. I know families that do this. When I go, I very rarely pay for overpriced ballpark food when I can bring Subway for a lot less.

But I would have more enjoyment at a game with Barry Bonds and Frank if I were sitting in the highest row of the upper deck then if bought great seats at a minor league game.

Bob

Hangar18
06-14-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I disagree that the Cubs are the competition. The Sox have targeted suburban families as their target market.

What they don't get is that a family can go to any of the following nearby cities or suburbs and see family oriented entertainment for less than 1/3 of the cost of a worse ticket (in terms of location) at U.S. Cellular:

Geneva
Schaumburg
Crestwood
Joliet
Gary, IN

They also don't get that the drop in attendance corresponds to the attendance at these parks. They also don't get that you don't lure families in by raising the price of tickets, parking, and concessions when the competition can beat you in all of these areas.

Here's the difference in black and white:

Thursday I went to a Sox game. Dollar hot dog night. I paid $29.00 for my ticket (section 146, row 30, down the right field line about 200 feet from home plate as the crow flies) and $15.00 for parking. I then bought the hot dog upgrade (2 @ $2.50 each) and a bottle of Pepsi ($3.00). Total for dinner. Later I bought one beer ($4.75). Total spent $56.75.

Tonight I'm going to Kane County for a game. I paid $9.00 for my ticket and $1.00 for parking (reserved--if I wanted to walk farther, I could park for free). If I buy a barbequed pork chop sandwich ($5.50, chips $1.00, and a large Pepsi $3.00, I think), dinner will cost me $9.50. Add the $4.50 for a beer (iirc) and that takes me up to $14.00 for food. Total bill: $24.50. That's well under half the same price.

Now if you're on a budget, where do you go? The Sox haven't figured this out yet.

Hal, the CUBS ARE the competition, the Sox have been Foolish to Ignore it all these years. But Your Point is EXCELLENT, for it is
this combination of circumstances, that has accounted for
dwindling attendance. Sure, put monkeys on the field up
North, and the sheep Line Up, Money in Hand to see it. That doesnt work down South here. Put a lame product on the field, and suddenly I dont want to go anymore. To buy a Brat in Centerfield for nearly $5 dollars, WITHOUT Onions or Brn Mustard. Are you kidding me? This Team doesnt get it On and Off the Field. How they manage to exist is beyond me. The Cost to watch these suckers play sub .500 ball is too much for me.
My cousin, USED to be a big Sox Fan. He lives in Joliet. Guess How many Jackhammer games hes been to since last season?
All I know is, he mocks me for putting up with JR's Nonsense,
and im spending WAY TOO much money on this team. I dare the SOX to let Colon go after this year.......I 'lll show them where My Money will go.....

wassagstdu
06-14-2003, 12:36 PM
$1 hot dogs are a good start. But WHY aren't we singing YMCA with somebody on top of the dugout making arm letters?? (Or are we? I haven't been to the Cell for a while.) And WHO made the decision not to have somebody dressed up like a big sock with wings roaming through the stands giving the kids a thrill? (And blocking the view of Sox fielding at the same time!) They could hire a "Big Sock" a lot cheaper than a good shortstop or center fielder -- and when was the last time a kid pestered his parents to take him to the ballpark to see a Sox player? Actually, to tell the truth, I'd rather watch the Phillies Phanatic than any of the Sox.

TornLabrum
06-14-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
IMHO, it's worth an extra $30 or so to see Frank Thomas and Barry Bonds.

Not to get too much into one's spending habits, which are none of my business, but it is possible for you to attend the game for less money. Maybe the enjoyment of the game would have decreased, but so would have your costs. You could have bought cheaper tickets and brought food from home to the game. I know families that do this. When I go, I very rarely pay for overpriced ballpark food when I can bring Subway for a lot less.

But I would have more enjoyment at a game with Barry Bonds and Frank if I were sitting in the highest row of the upper deck then if bought great seats at a minor league game.

Bob

We're not talking about my spending habits except to illustrate what it costs to go to a game and obtain a certain seat on the South Side vs. in the 'burbs. We're talking about who is marketing to whom. The Sox are competing for the same market as the Cougars, Flyers, Jackhammers, Cheetahs, and Railcats, young suburban families with kids. The Sox are losing. They are losing because they can't compete in price. Period.

TornLabrum
06-14-2003, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by wassagstdu
$1 hot dogs are a good start. But WHY aren't we singing YMCA with somebody on top of the dugout making arm letters?? (Or are we? I haven't been to the Cell for a while.) And WHO made the decision not to have somebody dressed up like a big sock with wings roaming through the stands giving the kids a thrill? (And blocking the view of Sox fielding at the same time!) They could hire a "Big Sock" a lot cheaper than a good shortstop or center fielder -- and when was the last time a kid pestered his parents to take him to the ballpark to see a Sox player? Actually, to tell the truth, I'd rather watch the Phillies Phanatic than any of the Sox.

I have two words for you: Ribbie and Rubarb. And now you know why the Sox no longer have a mascot. They are what Sox management thought would entertain fans.

voodoochile
06-14-2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I want Members of the White Sox Organization, top to bottom
to read the Title of this Thread, and APPLY it as they see
fit. These are words to live by. Everything they Do/Dont Do
DIRECTLY Affects youus in the future. Dont think it doesnt.

White Sox Mgmt (cubs too for that matter) Reminds me of that
Monkey in the Lab that cant Figure out WHy its getting
SHOCKED every time it reaches for the sandwich in the box.
Yet they keep reaching for it every time..... *BUZZZZZZZ*

Your analogy is flawed. You see even a monkey will eventually stop reaching for that sandwich. No, it won't know why the food is causing it pain, but it will understand the pain and look elsewhere for food. Heck, a chicken can learn that much. Now, Sox management on the other hand...

Originally posted by TornLabrum
We're not talking about my spending habits except to illustrate what it costs to go to a game and obtain a certain seat on the South Side vs. in the 'burbs. We're talking about who is marketing to whom. The Sox are competing for the same market as the Cougars, Flyers, Jackhammers, Cheetahs, and Railcats, young suburban families with kids. The Sox are losing. They are losing because they can't compete in price. Period.

In addition their own research shows that the people going to the games don't care about who wins and loses or even that much about the players themselves. They have to start marketing to the twenty-something crowd if they want to get more people out to the park. There is a huge group of people who work in the loop every day. That is the group they need to get to the game on weeknights. How many families are going to weeknight games on a regular basis anyway?

Hangar18
06-15-2003, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile

In addition their own research shows that the people going to the games don't care about who wins and loses or even that much about the players themselves. They have to start marketing to the twenty-something crowd if they want to get more people out to the park. There is a huge group of people who work in the loop every day. That is the group they need to get to the game on weeknights. How many families are going to weeknight games on a regular basis anyway?

AMEN. How stupid can the marketing dept continue to be?
All they need to do is look 8 miles north, and look how they let
WGN market to the 20somethings. They dont even have to show them. Just keep panning the crowd and show the young people drinking, macking on chicks, and talking on their cell phones. Makes them think thats the place to be. By the way, not to change the subject, but I clicked on the flub game today, and WGN did it again. They did the "fan cam" and showed just about every single stupid cub fan that was in toronto. Just another example of Reckless and Shameful Biased Media
coverage

hsnterprize
06-16-2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by hose
I have to agree with you because I have used the Wolves over the Blackhawks in the same scenario and the kids love it.

If there was no minor league hockey nearby I would have been forced to take out a home equity loan to afford a Hawks game.

I think the kids lose all interest in these minor league teams as they grow up, kind of like soccer, most kids don't want anything to do with it as they hit their teens. And I've been to plenty of Wolves games. Everyone from Don Levin to the stickboy is A-1, first class, and down right awesome. The Wolves have an awesome organization...and I'll take them over the Hawks anyday.

hsnterprize
06-16-2003, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
IMHO, it's worth an extra $30 or so to see Frank Thomas and Barry Bonds.

Not to get too much into one's spending habits, which are none of my business, but it is possible for you to attend the game for less money. Maybe the enjoyment of the game would have decreased, but so would have your costs. You could have bought cheaper tickets and brought food from home to the game. I know families that do this. When I go, I very rarely pay for overpriced ballpark food when I can bring Subway for a lot less.

But I would have more enjoyment at a game with Barry Bonds and Frank if I were sitting in the highest row of the upper deck then if bought great seats at a minor league game.

Bob I can see where you're coming from, but the whole idea of going to a game is that you shouldn't have to go through so much to "cut costs" when you're going to a game. Of course there are ways of saving money when going to a Sox game, but in spite of whatever research Jerry Reinsdorf dug up, most of the fans who go to Sox games care for more than just being entertained. And if Sox fans have to go through so many financial hoops in order to watch Frank Thomas vs. Barry Bonds, unfortunately, many of them will bite the bullet and go somewhere else. True...the quality of baseball isn't as good in Kane County, or Joliet, or anywhere there's a minor league club. However, if the minor league clubs are going out of their way to treat the fans like people instead of a commodity, like many major league-level clubs in all sports do, the fans will go to the minor league venues. It's as simple as that.

Think about it from a hockey aspect. I've covered both the Blackhawks and Wolves. The 'Hawks have such an elitist attitude towards anything that's not somehow connected to them that everytime you mention the Wolves to them, the first thing they'll say is, "It's minor league." Well, that's true, but the Wolves have done a MAJOR LEAGUE job in promoting their product, getting fans to the arena, treating the fans with respect, and ultimately...putting a winning product on the ice. Now, it's obvious that the NHL has the best quality hockey players in the world, but in this town, the AHL's Wolves have the better product. They really make an effort to make the fans feel welcome, and provide a great show for them. I understand the Allstate Arena isn't full every night. However, if you look at recent history, the Wolves have done more in their existence than the Hawks have. Think about it...in the nearly 10 years the Wolves have been in town, they have contended for their league championship every year. They've made the playoffs every season, and they've reached either their conference or league championship series 5 out the last 6 seasons, and have 3 league championships to show for their efforts (2 IHL Turner Cup Titles and 1 AHL Calder Cup Title...in their first year in the league). What have the Hawks done? In the same 10 year span, the Hawks have made the playoffs a total of 5 times, with 1 appearance in the Western Conference Finals in the 1994-'95 lockout-shortened season vs. Detroit. Not to mention, in the 75+ years the Hawks have been in existence, they only have 3 Stanley Cup titles to show for their "tradition".

Simply put, it's easy to get excited over a major-league matchup in any sport, but if the major-league prices are out of the reach of many of the die-hard fans, a minor league team nearby, especially one that is statistically better than the big league franchise, may be the better option.

xil357
06-16-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Heres an Example. Let the other team that plays in the Very
Same City as you do (sox mgmt,heres a hint-they wear blue hats)
Out Market/Out Sensationalize you so that in just a few short years......theyve expanded their "fan" base to the point that
people believe (incorrectly of course) that YOU are 2nd Fiddle here. This isnt the case of course, but you know what White SOX Mgmt? PERCEPTION IS REALITY. You guys are pretty
Stupid to not have realized this. How dumb are you guys anyway?

I was thinking this EXACT same thing yesterday.

We see this kind of thing all the time in all walks of life. We see it when our esteemed president tells us over and over and over that Saddam Hussein harbors terrorists and has weapons of mass destruction. Well guess what, less than 2 years after 9/11, 48 PERCENT of the AMERICAN PUBLIC believes that Saddam was responsible for 9/11, despite widely-available intelligence that directly refutes this. The administration is smart enough to realize that if you keep repeating the same thing over and over and over, eventually people will believe it it true. Noam Chomsky and Edward Herrmann (sp?) wrote a maginificent book on this some years ago entitled "Manufacturing Consent."

Now, take this to a much smaller scale... If the Sox management has only the intelligence of apes who get shocked, they ought to be able to follow the principle of "Monkey See, Monkey Do." They ought to be chasing the same demographic of 20-somethings who want to be popular and be seen at a hip place to be and hire a TV producer who will get more crowd shots of hot ladies. Heck, it would be worth the investment to hire models to attend games in Sox gear just for the sake of getting on camera during games. We all see so many people wearing Sox gear who likely aren't baseball fans. Sox marketing should turn that to their advantage and get some of those celebrities to attend Sox games, even for pay. This could make inroads among a different segment of 20-somethings, not the "Friends" yuppies but a more urbane, hardcore demographic (Think Snoop Dog as opposed to Jennifer Anniston). They also need to be marketing to students at the city colleges, IIT, UIC, University of Chicago, Roosevelt, the Art Institute, Columbia, etc. -- colleges that are a short distance from the Cell.

For the family demographic, they do need to compete with the area minor league teams. (When I worked for a sales organization several years ago, one of the mottos was "You better get numbers, or you'll get neighbors.") Well guess what, the Sox haven't drawn for years and now a bunch of neighbors have popped up as minor league teams as direct competition for the family market. While some of their initiatives are laudable, it is just too friggin expensive to take a family to a Sox game. They need to sell upper deck tickets for $1 on weekdays and $2 on weekends, and allow families to bring in coolers of food if they would like. They also need to put pressure on Daley and other elected officials to have a Metra station built on the Rock Island line at 35th Street so that families can take the train to see a Sox game. Instead of building a passe home run porch, how about taking some of that money from U.S. Cellular and funding the construction of the train station instead? Talk about a good will gesture of giving back to the community! The PERCEPTION among suburban families is that the CTA is unsafe and sadly, because of racism, this cannot easily be overcome. But it still is a hassle to ride the train downtown, and then get on the EL to take it back to 35th Street. Having a stop at 35th on Rock Island line, coupled with $1/$2 upper deck tickets will make the Cell a bargain for families, even with the cost of food. At that price you are looking at a Sox game and concessions at just a few bucks more than a dinner out with the family at Chillis or Applebees! Family of four = 4 tickets at $1 each + 4 sandwiches/pizza slices at $4 each plus 4 beverages at $3 each + 4 train tickets at $3 each = $44. Talk about a bargain! And the Sox still would make money on the markup on the food! They also could save money on hiring concessions workers by allowing volunteers from community groups to run the concessions stands and share the profits with them. (The Texas Rangers do this and it works wonders both for the community groups like YMCA or United Way, etc. and for public relations.).

These two demographics -- families and 20-somethings -- are the ones who buy into the PERCEPTIONS. These are the folks who believe that Saddam flew both planes into the Twin Towers, who believe that Bush is telling them the truth all the time because after all, he doesn't get "serviced" by interns in the Oval Office and most of all that Wrigley is a beautiful piece of Americana in which to watch hot women in spandex tops, drink "great tasting" $5 20 oz. cups of watered down horse piss and watch Superman Sosa cork routine warning track fly balls for homers over a 360-foot fence with a Sandberg basket while the die-hard bleacher bums smuggle in non-game balls to throw back on the field when an opponent takes advantage of the little-league dimensions to pad his offensive stats. These are the people with disposable income. These are the people who would buy regurgitated dog feces if it had Mickey Mouse or Britney Spears on the package. This is where Rob Gallas needs to be focusing his attention -- on re-programming the vacuous craniums of these mindless lemmings, to both remove their dollars from their deep pockets and deny their hearts, minds and greenbacks from the competition -- the Cubs and the area minor league franchises.

Now, the hardcore fans, like us, are the hardest to please. So, as has been preached AD INFINITUM on WSI, the Sox need to have a well thought-out plan, hire the personnel to implement the plan, and stick to it. Then, if the plan fails during a particular year (as it seems to be failing for the third season in a row), identify your assets and cut your losses BUT stick to your plan and RELOAD around your assets. This team has not cut its losses and has instead opted to trade away its assets for complete rebuilding projects. You don't get better by trading away known assets for questionable prospects. Instead, be wary of trading away your question marks for other teams' question marks. Hardcore fans are not going to be fooled by perceptions, they look at reality. Putting a winner of the field is the surest bet to getting the hardcore fans back in the seats.

.... The militant wing of the Sox Army is poised to attack ....

gosox41
06-16-2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
We're not talking about my spending habits except to illustrate what it costs to go to a game and obtain a certain seat on the South Side vs. in the 'burbs. We're talking about who is marketing to whom. The Sox are competing for the same market as the Cougars, Flyers, Jackhammers, Cheetahs, and Railcats, young suburban families with kids. The Sox are losing. They are losing because they can't compete in price. Period.


Actually they're losing the marketing war becasue the team sucks. If the team wins, more and more families can suddleny afford to come out to the ballpark.

As for price differences, you expect to pay more to see better players (though that's arguable this year). The Sox couldn't stay in business if they dropped their prices to minor league levels.

The Sox marketing department sucks for many reasons, but I don't think cost of tickets is the prime reason why the Sox don't draw more.

Bob

gosox41
06-16-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by hsnterprize
I can see where you're coming from, but the whole idea of going to a game is that you shouldn't have to go through so much to "cut costs" when you're going to a game. Of course there are ways of saving money when going to a Sox game, but in spite of whatever research Jerry Reinsdorf dug up, most of the fans who go to Sox games care for more than just being entertained. And if Sox fans have to go through so many financial hoops in order to watch Frank Thomas vs. Barry Bonds, unfortunately, many of them will bite the bullet and go somewhere else. True...the quality of baseball isn't as good in Kane County, or Joliet, or anywhere there's a minor league club. However, if the minor league clubs are going out of their way to treat the fans like people instead of a commodity, like many major league-level clubs in all sports do, the fans will go to the minor league venues. It's as simple as that.

Think about it from a hockey aspect. I've covered both the Blackhawks and Wolves. The 'Hawks have such an elitist attitude towards anything that's not somehow connected to them that everytime you mention the Wolves to them, the first thing they'll say is, "It's minor league." Well, that's true, but the Wolves have done a MAJOR LEAGUE job in promoting their product, getting fans to the arena, treating the fans with respect, and ultimately...putting a winning product on the ice. Now, it's obvious that the NHL has the best quality hockey players in the world, but in this town, the AHL's Wolves have the better product. They really make an effort to make the fans feel welcome, and provide a great show for them. I understand the Allstate Arena isn't full every night. However, if you look at recent history, the Wolves have done more in their existence than the Hawks have. Think about it...in the nearly 10 years the Wolves have been in town, they have contended for their league championship every year. They've made the playoffs every season, and they've reached either their conference or league championship series 5 out the last 6 seasons, and have 3 league championships to show for their efforts (2 IHL Turner Cup Titles and 1 AHL Calder Cup Title...in their first year in the league). What have the Hawks done? In the same 10 year span, the Hawks have made the playoffs a total of 5 times, with 1 appearance in the Western Conference Finals in the 1994-'95 lockout-shortened season vs. Detroit. Not to mention, in the 75+ years the Hawks have been in existence, they only have 3 Stanley Cup titles to show for their "tradition".

Simply put, it's easy to get excited over a major-league matchup in any sport, but if the major-league prices are out of the reach of many of the die-hard fans, a minor league team nearby, especially one that is statistically better than the big league franchise, may be the better option.

If the Blackhawks were a compeitive team, then this wouldn't even be an issue. The Balckhawks have lost more attendence due to constantly losign then they have lost fans to the Wolves.

As for the White Sox prices, it's a pretty good bargain if you want to watch major league baseball. I'm a diehard fan. I have little interest in seeing a minor league team that's not an affiliate of the Sox.

Maybe the Sox need to market to a different Socioeconomic Class (SES) if their customers can't afford their product. I think half price night's make things a lot mroe affordable. Havind $1 hot dogs, no matter how gimmicky, is cheaper then paying full price.

It's hard to believe all die hard Sox fans can't afford to go to a game. I'm not saying it's cheap, but compared to alternative major league teams it's right in the middle of the pack cost wise.

Bob